Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

525
Banjo Lovers Online


New used deering goodtime arrived-broken or simple fix?

Want to hide these Google ads? Join the Players Union!

Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

May 28, 2020 - 2:25:12 PM
4 posts since 5/28/2020

Hello,

I've lurked here for for a while as I've dreamed of learning the banjo, but this is my first post. I ordered my first banjo online and it just arrived today. It is a deering goodtime that is used but supposed to be in mint condition. It arrived like this, with the tuning peg popped out. If I try pushing it back in, it fits loosely. It seems impossible to tighten the string. Is this because of major damage, or is it a common problem with a simple fix I'm just not seeing? Should I return it? I've contacted the seller and am waiting to hear from them, but I'd greatly appreciate some third party opinions from experienced banjo players. Thank you!






 

May 28, 2020 - 2:41:22 PM
like this

7668 posts since 1/7/2005

Common occurance and simple fix. Often you can just string up the banjo with the loose peg and it will work fine. Otherwise, you can dab a couple drops of glue on the peg, insert it and let it dry. There isn't much pressure involved that wants to make fifth string pegs to pop out under use, so you should probably work with it first and see if anything weird happens. Worst case, the peg hole would need to be filled and re-drilled to a smaller size. But it just might work fine for years without doing much of anything. You can also wrap the peg with a turn or two of masking tape and re-insert. Once in place, you can tap it gently to seat it. To do this without damage to the tuner, you can remove the knob, and slide a small piece of wood with a drilled hole over the shaft so that the shaft isn't taking the force of the taps.

DD

May 28, 2020 - 3:06:53 PM
like this

318 posts since 1/28/2011

Most of those tuners have one of the knurls a little larger than the others, and it has to fit into a slot in the hole. Sometimes that larger knurl is ground down and it doesn't matter, but if your tuner has a larger knurl, you will have to be sure it fits into the slot. I usually slip the tuner into the hole and give it a light tap with a hammer HANDLE to seat it.

May 28, 2020 - 3:08:32 PM
like this

10796 posts since 6/2/2008

Or my favorite DIY fix: one or two pieces of flat toothpick glued lengthwise into the wall of the hole, broken off at the surface, then the tuner reinserted.

Be sure the base of the tuner is positioned so that the string post is pointed slightly backwards -- in the direction of the 4th fret.

Edited to add:  If your tuner has a stabilizing fin as described above, that will take care of the tuner being in the correct orientation.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 05/28/2020 15:10:13

May 28, 2020 - 4:09:56 PM

4 posts since 5/28/2020

Thanks for all of the helpful replies. Here's a closer image of the tuning peg. I don't think I see something that would be a stabilizing fin, do you?

Also, should the 5th string tuning peg have this much excess string on it? None of the others do.




 

May 28, 2020 - 4:18:43 PM
likes this
Players Union Member

Chris Meakin

Australia

2940 posts since 5/15/2011

Normally all five strings will have the excess string removed, so you don't prick your thumb/finger. I like to "hide" the cut end inside the hole. Easier to show how that's done via this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gALI1XAcjS0

Enjoy your instrument. My first was a goodtime and I still play it near daily.

Edited by - Chris Meakin on 05/28/2020 16:25:57

May 28, 2020 - 4:24:09 PM

4 posts since 5/28/2020

Right now it actually seems as though when I try to tighten the string, it gets caught under the part of itself that's already wound, and so then gets pushed very close to the fretboard, practically touching it

May 28, 2020 - 5:08:27 PM

Edwards

USA

96 posts since 3/26/2014

I’d send it back, Any repairs you attempt could void whatever warranty comes with it. Worst case scenario you have to wait a few weeks to start practicing. Good luck with your practice and welcome to the Hang out

May 28, 2020 - 5:09:25 PM

Blackjaxe47

Canada

1516 posts since 6/20/2014

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Meakin

Normally all five strings will have the excess string removed, so you don't prick your thumb/finger. I like to "hide" the cut end inside the hole. Easier to show how that's done via this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gALI1XAcjS0

Enjoy your instrument. My first was a goodtime and I still play it near daily.


Watch that video from Deering, shows exactly how to install a new set of strings. Your Banjo is NOT BROKEN, the 5th string tuner popped out.....really this no big deal it happens all the time to many of us. One of the previous posts mentioned using a couple of flat tooth-picks, I have personally done that and it worked fine. When you use a small mallet to gently hammer the peg into place remove the plastic button and slip a drive socket usually around 1/4 over the shaft so you do not ruin the threads.....also make sure the peg is leaning backwards slightly towards the 4th fret. The video also shows how the peg is canted backwards a bit, not straight up and down this important that you get it in the right position. Do not be aggressive with forcing the peg in place, it doesn't take a lot of force to seat it properly.

May 28, 2020 - 6:23:17 PM

10796 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBoxes

Right now it actually seems as though when I try to tighten the string, it gets caught under the part of itself that's already wound, and so then gets pushed very close to the fretboard, practically touching it


I assume you're aware that the string goes under that spike behind the fifth fret, which presses it against the fret.  As a result, the string has no choice but to contact -- and slightly dig into -- the edge of the fretboard behind the fifth fret.  Some banjos include a small piece of plastic tubing to go over the string and protect the fretboard there. I don't think it's necessary.

As to excess string length, once you're comfortable the string is done stretching, you can cut off most of the excess but still leave a little in case the string continues to stretch.

If the way the string is wound on the post is interfering with tuning function, you could remove and reinsert the string and start over. Re-strung strings can break where they were previously bent, but it's worth a try if what's there isn't working.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 05/28/2020 18:24:14

May 28, 2020 - 7:12:46 PM

4 posts since 5/28/2020

I've tried using the masking tape and they didn't work. If I use glue, what kind would be appropriate? At home I currently have rubber cement and gorilla glue. Would either of those work?

I'm a little confused about some of the replies concerning this being normal/the instrument not being broken. Is it really normal for an instrument that is advertised as being used but in mint condition, still with the original manufacturer's tag attached, to have a tuning peg that does not work without all of these creative solutions? Why is the 5th string tuning peg so prone to this kind of problem? It is so loose that even before I have even attempted to tighten the string, just shifting the banjo slightly is enough for it to fall out again. The tape makes it thick enough to stay in place without tightening the string, but as soon as I do, it just slips again.

I could try fixing it with the glue, which if it worked would save me the trouble of returning it and having to wait longer to start learning, but I guess my other question is, is this not just a common problem, but enough of a fundamental trait of what fifth string tuning pegs tend to do that one would expect it of a newly purchased banjo the seller described as being in mint condition? It seems odd to be going through all these creative solutions on an instrument I haven't even played yet, but then again, I've never owned a banjo before and am completely new to this.

Thank you all for the help and encouragement.

May 28, 2020 - 7:30:07 PM

532 posts since 7/10/2012

DO NOT use Gorilla glue! That glue expands as it dries and will get all over your banjo.

Fifth string pegs come out sometimes, especially if they are not glued in the first place. It's not a "break" in the proper sense.

All you need is a drop or two of super glue on the side of the tapered stump that goes in the hole, that would be plenty. What you want is for the peg with the hole in it to point upright with a slight angle toward the top of the neck. I would take the string off, put a drop or two of glue on the tapered part, slide it in to the hole with a little bit of pressure and let it dry for a few minutes. Then, when you string her back up, wind the string up close to tuning, then slip it under that little black spike to hold it down over the fifth fret when you strike it open.

David

Edited by - dpgetman on 05/28/2020 19:31:30

May 28, 2020 - 8:16:17 PM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

12666 posts since 8/30/2006

One time I changed strings and the nut fell off, the 5th string tuner came out and the tailpiece fell off

What was your problem again?

Rubber cement is just fine
I see no fin, so install the hub about 11 o’clock a little to the left of Center

You can wrestle with their method of using a spike
All of mine use a steel screw. I like the sound better
The reason this happens is you have a factory spec Banjo , humidity changes things that a little glue fixes
Get yourself some little needle nose
Remove extra string and curl the end that you cutoff

We’ll help you here anytime

Welcome to the hangout

Edited by - Helix on 05/28/2020 20:18:48

May 28, 2020 - 9:18:18 PM

49 posts since 8/8/2015

It is always fun to help someone here new to banjos! As others have said, this is an easy fix. You may wish to search for a video showing this repair online. Of course you could return the banjo, but you might be on the hook for shipping and any possible damage during the return. Have you contacted the seller to see what they suggest to resolve this issue? They might be willing to pay for the repair at a local shop rather than deal with the hassle of a return.

Edited by - Fire-n-Rain on 05/28/2020 21:20:10

May 28, 2020 - 9:37:06 PM
like this

10796 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBoxes

I'm a little confused about some of the replies concerning this being normal/the instrument not being broken. Is it really normal for an instrument that is advertised as being used but in mint condition, still with the original manufacturer's tag attached, to have a tuning peg that does not work without all of these creative solutions? 


While it's not normal that an instrument arrives that way, it's not unheard of. Fifth string tuners do fall out. Aging or changes in humidity can make the wood shrink enough to enlarge the hole and loosen the tuner. Or maybe the tuner was bumped during packing. Or maybe it was poorly installed at Deering when new. It happens. Not to a majority. But often enough that people know how to deal with it.

If this were a new instrument, of course you'd send it back for repair or replacement.  And while you can send this used one back to the seller to fix, that involves the time and cost of shipping.

So those of us answering here are trying to help you out with what's a fairly basic DIY repair.

Do as others say and avoid Gorilla glue. I think most people recommend carpenter's wood glue. Original Titebond or Elmer's would do. But I don't think glue helps if the fit is loose. That's why I believe in reducing the hole.

I prefer flat toothpicks because they add more wood for the tuner to grip or press against the tuner.  If I didn't have toothpicks, I might try gluing in strips cut from a business card. If I were going to use masking tape, I'd line the hole with it instead of wrapping it around the base. That way the tuner would be gripping it or cutting into it when pressed in. Wrapping the base keeps its design from doing its job. 

Also, I think it's important to either tap the tuner in with a hammer or press it in with a clamp (protecting the opposite side of the neck with padding to avoid damage). You want to get it in deeper than you can with fingers alone.  Of course, you don't want to tap or press too much.

I do the clamping method. I've had to reinstall one tuner that fell out (after many years), install new ones in parts projects, and reinstall tuners in necks that came back from repairs or refinish.  As someone suggested above, I also use a socket (as from a socket wrench set) to cover the tuner shaft and give me something sturdy to press against with the clamp.  Years ago, I used to use an empty thread spool, back when they were made of wood.  Wish I'd saved one.

May 28, 2020 - 10:44:20 PM

Bart Veerman

Canada

4641 posts since 1/5/2005

Yup, what the others have said: an easy fix.

If you bought it from a private seller, they should have been aware of it and told you about it though...

May 29, 2020 - 5:25:51 AM
like this
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

12666 posts since 8/30/2006

To tap the tuner in, first remove the tuner button and washer, I use a 5/16 deep socket down over the shaft against the body and tap it in lightly until the flutes are almost all the way in
Tapping the shaft will break it

May 29, 2020 - 7:24:49 AM
like this

3102 posts since 5/29/2011
Online Now

A used instrument is not in mint condition. No matter how good it looks. I would be leary of a seller who advertised as such.
That being said... The recommendations made in the other posts have merit. The masking tape trick is one of my favorites. If that does not work try putting a layer of Elmer's white glue on the part that goes into the neck. Let it dry completely then reinsert the tuner and tap it in place as others have described. The dried glue makes a spacer that fills the hole and grips the wood.

May 29, 2020 - 7:34:40 AM

71911 posts since 5/9/2007

I like white glue,also.

May 29, 2020 - 8:04:38 AM

1163 posts since 2/4/2013

Shouldn't that tuner be angled slightly toward the headstock rather than as shown in the picture towards the rim.

I've had two 5th string tuners fall out. I've never used glue. Just a very thin bit of dowel or even matchstick and then gently tapped in.

May 29, 2020 - 8:59:06 AM
like this

1719 posts since 2/10/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Culloden

A used instrument is not in mint condition. No matter how good it looks. I would be leary of a seller who advertised as such.
That being said... The recommendations made in the other posts have merit. The masking tape trick is one of my favorites. If that does not work try putting a layer of Elmer's white glue on the part that goes into the neck. Let it dry completely then reinsert the tuner and tap it in place as others have described. The dried glue makes a spacer that fills the hole and grips the wood.


A new instrument becomes a used instrument once it is purchased from the dealer or manufacturer. If it was never played, evidenced by the hang tags still on the instrument, I would consider it mint condition.  Used or new only apply to the origin of purchase. Mint, very good, good, etc. apply to the condition. 

Which brings up another point.  Let’s say an instrument hangs in a shop for many years, played by and maybe abused by many people, but never purchased. That instrument is still considered new, however condition is really never described on new instruments. Sometimes they are described as shopworn if they are in pretty bad shape, but other than that no condition is usually expressed. 

May 29, 2020 - 4:44:52 PM
likes this

49 posts since 8/8/2015

Here is the procedure actually recommended by Deering:
deeringbanjos.com/blogs/faqs/1...n-a-banjo

May 29, 2020 - 6:10:59 PM
likes this

318 posts since 1/28/2011

It doesn't look like the hole is too large to me, judging by the amount of splines showing in his pictures. Both of my banjos (one is a Deering Deluxe) have the fifth string tuner going deeper into the neck than that. I would not use any paper, tape, glue, toothpicks, or anything else. Those are fixes for an oversize hole, which his banjo does not appear to have. I would just line up the spline in the neck with the splines on the tuner and tap it in place. Once the string is installed and brought up to tune, the tuner can not come back out.

May 30, 2020 - 11:04:46 AM
likes this

71911 posts since 5/9/2007

I went to a drop of glue after a couple of instances of the peg falling out at inconvenient moments.No harm and peace of mind.

May 30, 2020 - 11:56:29 AM

2509 posts since 4/16/2003

The "loose 5th string peg" seems to be a common problem on Deerings, for some reason. I Had the same trouble with my 2006 Golden Wreath.

This is a simple fix and anyone can do it.

You'll need some "white glue".
You DON'T need to use very much -- a "little dab will do ya".

Also, be careful how you "angle" the peg when you go to re-set it.
You don't want the "string barrel" to be "aiming straight up" (90 degrees offset from the neck), nor do you want it tilted towards the bridge.

Instead, it should be tilted slightly towards the peghead. Not a whole lot, perhaps 10 degrees or so. The idea is when the string "breaks" over the edge of the 5th string nut, it will angle downwards and reach the barrel that way.

So, first take any string remnants OFF the peg while you fix it.
Now, try a "test fit", to get the angle right and assess the fit before you apply any glue.
Once you know where you want it to go, put a little white glue on the end, perhaps a drop or two in the hole in the neck. NOT TOO MUCH, you don't want it oozing out all over the place.
Then put the peg in and get it seated. If any glue comes out, wipe it off with a damp cloth.
I would set the banjo on its side, and get it securely placed that way, and leave it for the rest of the day and all night. Let gravity do some of the work.
Then, try putting the 5th string back on the next day.

Jun 2, 2020 - 8:23:53 AM

32 posts since 8/31/2015

Ok to add yet another way to fix this, my favorite fix for loose 5th pegs, press in tuner bushings, and electric guitar string ferrules.
It involves glue but not gluing the peg in.
(Very) Carefully run a bead of superglue (regular, not gel or extra thin) around the entire inside wall of the hole. Spritz with accelerator and voila! You've essentially built up the inside wall of the hole, making it "smaller" snugging up the fit while retaining a non-glued in friction fit. Repeat as necessary depending on how far off it is. The Superglue also hardens the wood fibers so it is much less likely to come loose again. I dislike working with CA but it is incredibly useful stuff!

I believe I also saw a post from Mike Gregory a while back using epoxy putty to a similar effect.

Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.328125