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Apr 2, 2020 - 7:48:06 AM
5480 posts since 8/19/2012

I saw this article a few days ago and while it does not apply to me specifically I know what I would do.
Article is about a family 2 parents and 5 kids leaving New York city before the travel ban. They are traveling in an RV not interacting with others and going out to a house that has been prepared by friends .
I know that some of you have already done this. I don't believe that this applies to those of us that live in rural low population density areas.
So What would you do? or have done?

https://news.yahoo.com/influencer-her-husband-5-kids-212613387.html

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/2020-04-01-influencer-faces-backlash-after-leaving-nyc-with-her-family-in-an-rv-23967598.html

Apr 2, 2020 - 8:21:39 AM

Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

Is being an "influencer" a paying job?   From my rural low pop. density vantage point I think I'd have kept my mouth shut [although being an influencer might preclude that].  

Does the family's  going to a relatively remote area raise? ... or lower the overall risk [i.e. to the population at large]?

Edited by - Owen on 04/02/2020 08:24:42

Apr 2, 2020 - 10:21:42 AM
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9651 posts since 2/22/2007

They are hurting nobody, so it's nobody's business. Actually, getting out of NYC is better for everyone, as long as they are not interacting with others as they travel. But I suppose that it's "live as an "influencer", dies as an influencer".
But if I owned a (well stocked) rural retreat, I would be there now.

Apr 2, 2020 - 10:27:47 AM
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ChunoTheDog

Canada

152 posts since 8/9/2019

If they left before the travel ban, they didn't break any law. Also if its been 2+weeks and they havent come in contact with other people, its safe to say they're fine.

As long as they get to where they're going without interacting with others, and they stay there, there's no issue. The backlash is needless.

People who flaunt/advertise their every move on the web disgust me. Boring people trying to be interesting. Gross.

Apr 2, 2020 - 10:34:17 AM

Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

C'mon Glen, re. "...I know what I would do.".... the rest of us want to know too.

  

Apr 2, 2020 - 11:45:12 AM
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Tobus

USA

2177 posts since 11/17/2015

I agree that if they made their exit responsibly, with no need for contact with anyone on the way to their retreat, and with no need for resupply while there, it's fine.  There's nothing to be upset about, as they broke no law or order.  They are doing exactly what they're supposed to do: distance themselves from others to prevent spread of the disease.

But, on the other hand, imagine if a couple of million people from NYC did the same thing.  And then imagine that when they get to their destinations in rural counties, they all start coming down with symptoms and overwhelming rural clinics and hospitals.  This is why it's a problem.  Not at the individual level, but at the group level.  They will essentially be burdening the system in areas where they don't live or pay taxes, causing those who DO live and pay taxes there to be short on care. 

So it's definitely a dilemma between the concepts of personal liberty and social responsibility.  As a resident of a mostly rural county which has a medical system that will be easily overwhelmed by big-city people if they flock out here, I have to say I'd resent it. 

Apr 2, 2020 - 11:45:28 AM
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wizofos

USA

5480 posts since 8/19/2012

If I were in a city and had a rural hunting cottage, vacation home or what ever you want to call it that was separated from others I would have been gone as soon as they announced shelter in place. Diseases are more contagious in crowded cities than in less populated places. If not then why do they want 'social distancing'?
These articles talk about 5 kids, would you like to be stuck in a city apartment with 5 kids or somewhere that they can run around outside?
We spent this morning working in the yard, transplanting some Bleeding Hearts and cleaning up from winter. Getting some exercise together, fresh air and sunshine.
What did people in city apartments do?
I am not going to be judgmental about what you or anyone else does. I personally believe that they are doing what they believe they need to do to protect themselves and children and that should always be your first priority. Family first, then the people upstairs. I will always be willing to help someone else but my priority will always be my family.
Hope that answers your question Owen.

Apr 2, 2020 - 12:09:18 PM

Paul R

Canada

12709 posts since 1/28/2010

Every year we have the annual Poker Run with the hyper expensive fast boats. Frankly, I think it's a bunch of rich people looking for attention, and a noise nuisance as we hear then blasting along the St. Lawrence. I also wonder about the safety of the small boaters, such as all the kayakers, who frequent the same waterway. But one person said that the ones running the big speedboats are pros, but the hangers-on are following them and they are the dangerous ones.

So, an "influencer" posts what she's doing. With half-a-million "followers", how many will do as she did, but without precautions? There's the danger. Not exactly Jonestown followers, but the potential ...

I guess "influencers" just can't shut up.

Apr 2, 2020 - 12:51:07 PM

m06

England

8751 posts since 10/5/2006

They wouldn’t be ‘influencers’ if large numbers of people weren’t gormless enough to need and want to be influenced.

Apr 2, 2020 - 1:13:26 PM
Players Union Member

wizofos

USA

5480 posts since 8/19/2012

I think that Tobus is right about 'city' people flooding a rural area that is not adequately set up to take on many sick people. We have many counties that are dependent on tourism and seasonal residents. A lot of vacation homes, B&B, etc.... but they have announced that they don't want them coming up just for the reasons that Tobin mentioned.
I am kinda glad that many of you responded with comments about the legality or morality of these people. I also question why people really care if someone leaves New York.
The real question is WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Apr 2, 2020 - 2:25:51 PM
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9651 posts since 2/22/2007

This thread is on the continuum of other threads where we have discussed private vs. group behavior. And I keep getting reminded that some will just make the worst possible choice if given any freedom of action. From farmer's markets to boat ramps I ask "why are these being closed?", thinking of how I use them. And shortly later I will find a photo showing exactly why those amenities were closed, because some idiots simply cannot restrain themselves.
Governing assuming the worst from us is far from optimal, but in a true emergency I suppose is required. And, of course, those making the decisions will also be judged by the actions of the worst of us----"how could you allow this?", and it is safer and easier to be more restrictive. My fear is that such decision making will last longer than this crisis.
Few authoritarians willingly give up authority, as power is a most addictive drug.

Apr 2, 2020 - 2:58:36 PM
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Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

I guess it's another "it depends" situation.  Kenora, ON, [which has a hospital]  2+ hours east of Winnipeg says cottagers should stay home.  The mayor of Victoria Beach, a small cottage community [without a hospital]  1.5 hr. NE of Winnipeg says "Come on out," her logic being: if someone contracts C-19 they'll be going back to the city anyway.

If I had a recreational property you can bet the farm that I'd be there as much as possible.  What would I do if I was a resident of the rural area on the receiving end?   So long as no laws were being broken I'd probably just grumble to my  v-e-r-y understanding wife.

I'm with Bill-e re. being out and about.   My wife and I prefer small campgrounds. We've been to a few where it was only us and 1 or maybe 2 other campers.  A lot more "social distance" there than even in our small town!!   If social distancing is the important factor, does it really matter where that distancing takes place?  [And I do appreciate that there's a world of diff between rural and urban perspectives.]

Apr 2, 2020 - 3:11:23 PM

71708 posts since 5/9/2007
Online Now

Vinalhaven Islanders took chainsaw in hand and dumped a tree across the driveway of people that had just moved in,to keep them at home,a couple days ago.

I guess there were some guns,too.

Man,those islands can get awful small,sometimes.

Edited by - steve davis on 04/02/2020 15:13:21

Apr 2, 2020 - 3:45:26 PM
Players Union Member

Brian T

Canada

16486 posts since 6/5/2008

We all just stay put in this little village. No places for tourists to stop or to visit. Nothing is open.
Two places at the weekends where we can get take-away food. Food and drink is stocked up OK.

If you don't live here, gas up and go. Keep driving. Stay away, thank you.
Right now, we can't afford fresh disease. The mayor said so, I'll just echo his words.

Apr 2, 2020 - 3:51:18 PM
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figmo59

USA

31007 posts since 3/5/2008
Online Now

What would I do..?

Fer one thing....I would not ..go..to NY...

Even if there was ..no virus...

Apr 2, 2020 - 4:10:58 PM

71708 posts since 5/9/2007
Online Now

We all know each other,here.Feels good.There's a lot of respect for extra space.
I don't plan on seeing a soul for the next couple of weeks.

Apr 2, 2020 - 7:48:42 PM
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90 posts since 8/20/2019

It's times like this, that I'm thankful everyone stereotypes us West Virginians... rumors of us being inbred, 6 fingers on each hand, crazy mountain people, total idiots, rednecks, and all that...

let the world keep thinking that, and they'll stay away from my mountain here, and just keep on drivin' past us.

If I see any new yorkers or city folks come my way, I'm gonna grab my banjo, sit on the front porch, cross my eyes and lick my eyebrows, make a few grunts, and yell to 'em, 'hey y'all shore are purty, lemme hear ya squeal like a pig!'

... yep, they'll just keep drivin' on past and never stop here, especially after they read the sign at my driveway that reads, 'this property protected by a pit bull with AIDS', !

I doubt I'll see any new yorkers 'round here, nope, reckon not...

Apr 2, 2020 - 8:23:23 PM
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donc

Canada

6271 posts since 2/9/2010

We have the same issues. People leave the city and likely nothing will go wrong. The other possibility is that one person may be carrying the disease. If they need not touch anything until they get to the cabin maybe its o.k. If they promise to stay isolated for 15 more days it may be o.k. Not all Canadians are that smart. This means the cabin must be a close enough drive to insure nobody needs an actual restroom, a tank of gasoline, or fast food on the way. Several mayors of small Canadian towns now have the same fears. Many of these small villages may have 1 or 2 doctors. If they do have a small hospital it probably has 10 beds and 1 ventilator. When things go really wrong these places usually medi-vac to the nearest large centre like Vancouver, Victoria, or Prince George. By this time they have infected the whole village. Not a great plan.

Apr 3, 2020 - 6:02:25 AM

Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

 
Originally posted by donc

<snip> The other possibility is that one person may be carrying the disease. If they need not touch anything until they get to the cabin maybe its o.k. If they promise to stay isolated for 15 more days it may be o.k. Not all Canadians are that smart. This means the cabin must be a close enough drive to insure nobody needs an actual restroom, a tank of gasoline, or fast food on the way. <snip>

Now that some experts (?) are starting the 180 on the advisability of masks for the general public.... would people that are out and about, [or traveling to a cabin, even if they stopped along the way] be acceptably responsible if "everybody" was wearing a mask?   [.... in addition to not gathering in large groups, proper hand hygiene, etc., not as a replacement.]

If there's merit in the adage that "truth is the first casualty of war,"  I wonder why some of our leaders/experts choose to refer to the current situation as a war??

Apr 3, 2020 - 6:24:17 AM

1741 posts since 2/10/2013

I wish all these people talking about "New York" would specify if they are talking about the city or state. There is more to "New York" than the city.
Same thing when newspeople talk about cities that exist in more than one country or state.

Apr 3, 2020 - 8:31:46 AM

donc

Canada

6271 posts since 2/9/2010

Owen... I firmly believe that the jury is still out on the mask question. If this epidemic were to resurface 6 months later I will bet $$ that a mask will be as common as a pair of shoes. The most technically adapted countries have a history of sophisticated medicines, knowledge, and elaborate equipment. Why is it that we have become snagged by a paper mask with 1960's technology  ? They probably cost 15 cents each to manufacture ?

Edited by - donc on 04/03/2020 08:33:47

Apr 3, 2020 - 8:51:58 AM

Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

I don't know exactly what you mean by "become snagged by a paper mask."   If, I'm guessing right, I think the snag is either too much Peter Principle, or the adage about war/truth is being played out.... or more likely a combination of the two, IMNSHumbleO.

MY [common sense] jury isn't out at all.     (a) Either masks help or they don't.     (b) Workers in medical facilities say they help.       (c) I've got no argument to the contrary.

Edited by - Owen on 04/03/2020 08:53:47

Apr 3, 2020 - 3:36:59 PM

donc

Canada

6271 posts since 2/9/2010

It started with people using N95 masks but many more were using drywall sanding masks and any other makeshift adaptation. They were never intended for a 100% seal around the nose and mouth. Logically bad air and infection can enter through these leaky areas. A lot has happened in the past 2 weeks. We have gone from being told that masks only prevent sick people from spreading the disease. Now we are increasingly told that masks could be good for everyone. Personally I believe that some protective barrier is better than none. If everyone were to wear any sort of mask I believe it would make a difference, providing that people don't conclude that the cheap mask will make them invincible. Being "snagged"by a paper mask was my way of explaining that the issue of paper masks in short supply has  put us deeper into this mess than we needed to be.

Edited by - donc on 04/03/2020 15:40:33

Apr 4, 2020 - 3:26:45 AM

90 posts since 8/20/2019

So people are wearing a mask to cover just two mucus membranes where a virus can enter the body.

But what are they doing to cover the other mucus membranes where the virus can enter - eyes/eyelids, a nus , s ex organs ?
If you're using a community or public toilet, the latter two mucus membranes will be prime entry points for the virus.

The eyes are right up there when someone sneezes or coughs, so why are people not using a full face mask, because a nose/mouth one isn't going to prevent anything anyway, unless you're sick and it might block the airborne particles when you cough or sneeze, but useless for someone not sick, because the airborne virus will just enter through the eyelids...

Apr 4, 2020 - 7:28:27 AM

Owen

Canada

5540 posts since 6/5/2011

Is there reliable info [or even informed estimates] on what proportion of the virus gains entry into the body through the various mucous membranes? eg. ...%age that enters through the eyes?  ....%age that enters through the lungs? ...%age that enters through the intestines?   ...etc., etc.?   

Edited by - Owen on 04/04/2020 07:30:15

Apr 4, 2020 - 9:08:51 AM

14755 posts since 12/2/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Tobus

But, on the other hand, imagine if a couple of million people from NYC did the same thing.  And then imagine that when they get to their destinations in rural counties, they all start coming down with symptoms and overwhelming rural clinics and hospitals.  This is why it's a problem.  Not at the individual level, but at the group level.  They will essentially be burdening the system in areas where they don't live or pay taxes, causing those who DO live and pay taxes there to be short on care.


Therein lies the rub. Cape Cod is a popular summer destination, for both vacationers and second-home owners - of which there are a lot. Most of those second-home folks come from wealthy suburbs around Boston (pretty hard hit by CV - in fact, where it first really started popping up in the state) and by folks from the NYC-centered NY/NJ/CT area - which is also rather hard-hit. A lot of those summer home owners arrived quite early this year.

The infrastructure here is really built to manage the year-round population. There are exceptions - for example, the local hospital's Emergency Department is amazingly large for a hospital that essentially serves around 85,000 year-round residents; it reflects the fact that the summer folk easily triple that number in July and August. In fact, it's one of the busiest EDs in the state, seeing as many as 40,000 patients each year. But the hospital itself has only 98 beds.

I was talking with my sister's pulmonologist last week. He allowed that most of the people the hospital had been treating for CV as of that time were from away. The folks from away also need food and essentials. I'm pretty well stocked up, and I'm trying like hell to stay away from town.

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