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Boy Scouts of America files for bankruptcy....

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Feb 18, 2020 - 4:35:26 PM

Owen

Canada

5178 posts since 6/5/2011

I guess I don't understand either accountability or bankruptcy.   https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/18/us/boy-scouts-bankruptcy/index.html

Feb 18, 2020 - 5:00:38 PM

Tommy5

USA

3511 posts since 2/22/2009

The Boy Scouts became a magnet for pedophiles, the leaders of the scouts tried to solve the problem by not letting homosexuals become scout leaders, but eventually it became illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation, now they can’t pay all of lawsuits so their only alternative is to declare bankruptcy so the victims may not get the compensation they were awarded , a sad situation all around.

Feb 18, 2020 - 5:51:38 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

23228 posts since 6/25/2005

The pedophile problem long antedated the homosexual ban.

Feb 18, 2020 - 6:52:25 PM

Tommy5

USA

3511 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The pedophile problem long antedated the homosexual ban.


True, the ban was a response to the problem, it didn't work. 

Feb 18, 2020 - 6:55:23 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

47737 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

I was a victim of one of those pedophiles when I was 13,, as I’ve noted on this forum before. It scars deep.

Feb 18, 2020 - 7:00:56 PM
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5058 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

The Boy Scouts became a magnet for pedophiles, the leaders of the scouts tried to solve the problem by not letting homosexuals become scout leaders, but eventually it became illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation, now they can’t pay all of lawsuits so their only alternative is to declare bankruptcy so the victims may not get the compensation they were awarded , a sad situation all around.


Pedophiles have nothing to do with being gay.  The "ban" was motivated by a reason that cannot be discussed on the BHO.

Feb 18, 2020 - 7:23:15 PM
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Players Union Member

frailin

USA

6694 posts since 10/26/2005

I grew up in a very small midwestern town. The Boy Scouts were all we had for extracurricular activities. I'd like to think my Scouting experience was like most (excellent Scoutmasters) but I know others weren't as fortunate as me. We even went to a national Jamboree. Road out in the back of a pickup truck. Seat belt laws weren't a thing yet. I learned how to study and achieve (merit badges), provide for myself (camping) and went on to make Eagle. At 67, I still treasure that series of life lessons. I'm sorry the institution was lost. And I'm sorry for those that suffered.

Edited by - frailin on 02/18/2020 19:23:58

Feb 18, 2020 - 8:07:44 PM
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Tommy5

USA

3511 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

The Boy Scouts became a magnet for pedophiles, the leaders of the scouts tried to solve the problem by not letting homosexuals become scout leaders, but eventually it became illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation, now they can’t pay all of lawsuits so their only alternative is to declare bankruptcy so the victims may not get the compensation they were awarded , a sad situation all around.


Pedophiles have nothing to do with being gay.  The "ban" was motivated by a reason that cannot be discussed on the BHO.


Pedophiles can be either gay or straight not usually both, I agree ,blaming homosexuals in general for the despicable acts of degenerate pedophiles is wrong which is why the ban was overturned and why it didn't achieve its adjectives.

Feb 18, 2020 - 9:04:07 PM
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9490 posts since 1/15/2005

There is a special place (and not a good one) for those that abuse children. It is especially sad that they choose organizations that are based on trust and honesty, and all things good. I have the greatest empathy for those that were the victims of those creeps.

Feb 19, 2020 - 1:28:24 AM
Players Union Member

janolov

Sweden

40250 posts since 3/7/2006

It seems that pedopfiles are more accepted than homosexuals in typical male communities and organisations...........

Feb 19, 2020 - 7:30:14 AM
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9490 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by janolov

It seems that pedopfiles are more accepted than homosexuals in typical male communities and organisations...........


I don't think that is the case at all ..... or maybe our definitions of "accepted" are different.

Feb 19, 2020 - 8:18:52 AM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

10067 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by frailin

I grew up in a very small midwestern town. The Boy Scouts were all we had for extracurricular activities. I'd like to think my Scouting experience was like most (excellent Scoutmasters) but I know others weren't as fortunate as me. We even went to a national Jamboree. Road out in the back of a pickup truck. Seat belt laws weren't a thing yet. I learned how to study and achieve (merit badges), provide for myself (camping) and went on to make Eagle. At 67, I still treasure that series of life lessons. I'm sorry the institution was lost. And I'm sorry for those that suffered.


Congratulations on making Eagle, my hat is off to you.  I was just shy of first class when I dropped out due to the new scoutmaster.  Didn't trust him, and it turned out my instincts were right.

Scouting is a great organization, but they did a poor job of policing themselves, much like another organization home based in Italy that buried the problems and their heads in the sand. 

Feb 19, 2020 - 8:20:23 AM
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Players Union Member

DC5

USA

10067 posts since 6/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by janolov

It seems that pedopfiles are more accepted than homosexuals in typical male communities and organisations...........


They are not at all accepted in male prisons.  Their life expectancy after incarceration can usually be measured in weeks or months. 

Feb 19, 2020 - 8:42:10 AM

Owen

Canada

5178 posts since 6/5/2011

....might deep brain stimulation akin to this  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/frank-plummer-deep-brain-stimulation-experimental-treatment-1.5399179 be worth investigating?

[I bolded "akin to this," to acknowledge the propensity for some and hopefully reduce the necessity of comments along the line of "deep brain stimulation with a piece of lead." .... but since it's an open forum..... ]

Feb 19, 2020 - 8:42:40 AM
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figmo59

USA

30413 posts since 3/5/2008
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

I was a victim of one of those pedophiles when I was 13,, as I’ve noted on this forum before. It scars deep.


I liked your post for your forthwith honesty...

 

I DO NOT....like what had happened to you my friend...  :0[

Feb 19, 2020 - 8:49:51 AM
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figmo59

USA

30413 posts since 3/5/2008
Online Now

Child abuse ..is the most ahgreejuss..of crimes...

Just sick..n..Wrong...by any measure..

Feb 19, 2020 - 9:10:37 AM
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chuckv97

Canada

47737 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

To be clear I didn’t post to fish for sympathy, but I thank you for your empathy.
I had kept that dirty secret buried for years and it subconsciously nearly killed me. I’m open about it now to let others know it’s okay to talk about it. There are a lot of psychologically wounded boys and men walking around out there.

Feb 19, 2020 - 10:37:17 AM

Tobus

USA

2040 posts since 11/17/2015

quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

The Boy Scouts became a magnet for pedophiles, the leaders of the scouts tried to solve the problem by not letting homosexuals become scout leaders, but eventually it became illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation...


Just a quick note: there is no federal law here in the USA that makes it illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity.  Some states or local governments may have such laws, but there are no national laws that would prevent the BSA from turning away a homosexual for a job.

Feb 19, 2020 - 11:14:35 AM

5058 posts since 9/21/2007

Tobus I was trying to avoid religion and politics for BHO but the fact is that BSA is both a religious and political organization so I am not sure how far this will go.

I started in the program with Tiger Cubs and went all the way through to life. I did not get eagle. I was more into camping and hiking than studying the BSA doctrine.

By my mid to late teens (when my mind began to develop to the point when I could develop my own logical decisions) I became distant from much of the teachings of the BSA. My parents were woven into that world so I was more or less forced to take part until I turned 18 (and they told me as much).

It is interesting that I attribute my self reliance and logical/scientific views of the world to what I was taught in the BSA program. The funny thing is that the lessons they taught me turned me against them when I started to view the world through my own eyes.

I can still recite the Scout Law but I started to dislike the Oath at a young age. There are several points of the Scout Law that I now view differently than I did when I was younger.

Feb 19, 2020 - 11:26:17 AM

1076 posts since 8/7/2017

I'm not an expert, so keep that in mind.

I know some homosexuals, and they have not the slightest interest in children.

I'm totally straight, and I was in the Boy Scouts (joined in 1963, Cub Scouts before that). Homosexuality was a concern of my parents, but I was never approached (or was too naive to recognize an approach). I have no doubt pedophilia exists, probably everywhere. I see that as a separate concern from homosexuality between consenting adults. Just my opinion.
------------------------
BSA had a lot of problems with management, long before these current issues and bankruptcy. For instance, I donated a sailboat to the Boy Scouts in Rhode Island (~1980). I donated because of my friendship with one of the BSA professional people (he ran a computer help usergroup, totally separate from BSA, and helped me several times). Later I learned that some other guy in the BSA office took credit for the donation. My friend was demoted for not getting enough donations. I was pretty pissed, as you can imagine. I did not know that his (and other's jobs) depended on their getting $$ for the BSA, otherwise I would have made it more clear at time of donation who should get the credit. I understand the need for fund-raising personnel.

But I don't like thieves of any sort. That the manager of that BSA office tolerated thieves turned my stomach. I've never donated to BSA since, not trusting them to handle $ or boats.

Edited by - BrooksMT on 02/19/2020 11:31:15

Feb 19, 2020 - 11:55:21 AM
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5058 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by BrooksMT

I'm not an expert, so keep that in mind.

I know some homosexuals, and they have not the slightest interest in children.

I'm totally straight, and I was in the Boy Scouts (joined in 1963, Cub Scouts before that). Homosexuality was a concern of my parents, but I was never approached (or was too naive to recognize an approach). I have no doubt pedophilia exists, probably everywhere. I see that as a separate concern from homosexuality between consenting adults. Just my opinion.
------------------------
BSA had a lot of problems with management, long before these current issues and bankruptcy. For instance, I donated a sailboat to the Boy Scouts in Rhode Island (~1980). I donated because of my friendship with one of the BSA professional people (he ran a computer help usergroup, totally separate from BSA, and helped me several times). Later I learned that some other guy in the BSA office took credit for the donation. My friend was demoted for not getting enough donations. I was pretty pissed, as you can imagine. I did not know that his (and other's jobs) depended on their getting $$ for the BSA, otherwise I would have made it more clear at time of donation who should get the credit. I understand the need for fund-raising personnel.

But I don't like thieves of any sort. That the manager of that BSA office tolerated thieves turned my stomach. I've never donated to BSA since, not trusting them to handle $ or boats.


Below is a cut and paste.  You are totally correct.  The BSA is/was a money machine with a largely volunteer staff.  They get HUGE government subsidies in the form of land use and staff labor provided by the Military.  Troops meet in churches and schools so that equals more tax money going to the BSA in free rent.

The CEO gets a nice chunk of that change every year.

The Chief Scout Executive, the CEO of the Boy Scouts of America National Council, receives a salary of $1,577,600

Feb 21, 2020 - 4:11:15 AM
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mander

USA

4214 posts since 10/7/2007

Yes, pedophiles are a problem. As big a problem is how people fail to make any effort to stop it.

When my boys were little we would go to a local community swimming pool. One day, a young boy (they said he was 8, he was the size of an adult, so who knows?) swam up to my children and grabbed them by the genitals. I got myself and my children out of the pool, went to talk to the life guard, and was told, "It's okay, ma'am, he's mentally retarded." I responded, "Yes, he may be mentally retarded, but I'm not, my children are not, and I like to believe you are not." Long short, after numerous discussions and repeat offensives and lack of a decent out come, the "solution" to the problem, which was deemed me, I was the problem, I was told it was "best for all involved" if my family stopped coming to the pool. My children were not the only children this boy targeted. He went after anyone, any gender, any age, whomever was in the pool. Apparently, I was the only parent who had a problem with a mentally retarded child groping their child's genitals. Yep, that's me, the woman who is capable of saying, "STOP!" I ruin all the fun.

Haven't been back since. The Life guard was "Honored" at his retirement as a pillar of the community. I have other thoughts as to what sort of pillar he is.

Edited by - mander on 02/21/2020 04:13:52

Feb 21, 2020 - 4:21:43 AM

mander

USA

4214 posts since 10/7/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Tobus
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy5

The Boy Scouts became a magnet for pedophiles, the leaders of the scouts tried to solve the problem by not letting homosexuals become scout leaders, but eventually it became illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation...


Just a quick note: there is no federal law here in the USA that makes it illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation or gender identity.  Some states or local governments may have such laws, but there are no national laws that would prevent the BSA from turning away a homosexual for a job.


I had to look that one up. I should have known you were right, but one keeps hoping decency will prevail in the law. I'm thinking, even if through were laws, it would like only apply to hiring paid employees. I imagine one could still discriminate when it comes to volunteers.

Feb 21, 2020 - 6:16:59 AM

Owen

Canada

5178 posts since 6/5/2011

Mander, I don't get the connection between "decency" and discriminatory hiring laws/policies.    It sounds to me like you're linking sexual orientation and pedophilia....     [But, I've been wrong before, and I'm no "expert" on sexual orientation or pedophilia or the law.]

Edited by - Owen on 02/21/2020 06:31:39

Feb 21, 2020 - 1:23:56 PM
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Wyozark

USA

962 posts since 12/2/2012

Became a Boy Scout back in about '67, I think. Made it to Life. Loved Scouts. It taught me leadership. Taught me to cook. Taught me to be able to take care of myself.

Click for Large Version

Later I became a Cub leader and then a Scoutmaster for years. My own sons became Eagle Scouts, as did many other boys in the troop. I tried to make sure the boys had good memories, if possible. I tried to make sure that no boy would be left out because of limited financial resources. We were the "low cost" troop. Not every boy could do sports; but any boy could do Scouts. It made the bookish indoor boy get out and get physical; it made the physical boy have to read and study and be thoughtful. In training I would tell the Scout that if he was to be able to help others, he had to first learn how to take care of himself. Interesting, I was a Baptist Scoutmaster in a Catholic troop. But we were small town, and the boys were all sons of my friends. I put a tremendous amount of time into Scouts, and I don't regret it. I had a great group of men around me and we became fast friends.

I hate what has happened to the boys, what happened to Chuck. It seems the professional Scout organization made some really bad decisions, and I don't know why. And in the last few years I felt that the BSA had run headlong into cultural forces that were contrary to some of the organization's basic priciples. They tried to make compromises that satisfied no one.

Few things last: the Roman Empire, Plymouth Motor Company, Quisp cereal (oh, wait! you can buy Quisp online at Walmart for $45.00!!) . . . But my point is that maybe it is time for the BSA to go away.

Feb 21, 2020 - 2:19:26 PM
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rinemb

USA

11991 posts since 5/24/2005

I was an Eagle Scout, and God and Country Recipient, as well as many of the other available achievements. I worked a summer at a Pioneering Boy Scout Ranch. BSA was a big part of my life for many years, until I hit high school. Then sports, girls, and beer to hold. This period of my life was in the 1960s.
I never knew of anyone approached by a male leader in all that time. Most of the leaders back then in my parts were grizzly WWII combat veterans.
That said I believe much of what I do read of the problem. Yet thought the organization did good things for many boys, at least in my days. Its all so sad to me! Shame,shame...brad

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