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Jan 23, 2020 - 8:45:11 PM
10 posts since 4/8/2019

I’m purchasing this very nice sounding Crowe model, but can’t pick it up until February 8th due to a city ordinance on used items here in Knoxville.

Wondering what we can learn about it. It’s got the 10 hole ring, the banner logo headstock with the name spelled out, and there is no sticker on the inside. I believe there is a stamped number on the rim that seems to be from the manufacturer of the rim— I don’t think it’s a number from Rich & Taylor.

Sorry for the rock n roll lighting in the music store, but you can probably see what you need to see. Headstock, Crowe signature inlay.

Thanks for any help with this! All I’ve been able to find from previous threads on R&T banjos is that they were short lived and the earlier ones had the 10 hole ring.




Edited by - mrush on 01/24/2020 07:15:09

Jan 24, 2020 - 3:05:47 AM

1164 posts since 2/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by mrush

I’m purchasing this very nice sounding Crowe model, but can’t pick it up until February 8th due to a city ordinance on used items here in Knoxville.

Wondering what we can learn about it. It’s got the 10 hole ring, the script logo headstock with the name spelled out, and there is no sticker on the inside. I believe there is a stamped number on the rim that seems to be from the manufacturer of the rim— I don’t think it’s a number from Rich & Taylor.

Sorry for the rock n roll lighting in the music store, but you can probably see what you need to see. Headstock, Crowe signature inlay.

Thanks for any help with this! All I’ve been able to find from previous threads on R&T banjos is that they were short lived and the earlier ones had the 10 hole ring.

 

 

 


Beautiful banjo. I heard the Kulesh big 10 hole ring was a mistake but they went with it. Fine banjo ring. I heard that from Greg Deering on one of his visits downunder. I spent the day with him sharing a very tiny room selling our wares. That was one of the many stories he shared.
Another was when he was learning to build banjos he was doing it with Stelling and Taylor. Taylor is a master. Greg mentioned how they learnt from each other. That conversation came about because someone walked in with a Crafters of Tennessee banjo and Greg was excited.  You have an historic banjo there. Sorry nobody has shared stories of Greg Rich with me but I know he is another master of many things.

I found this lovely read if you haven't already.

 https://beyondguitars.com/story-two-banjos/

Jan 24, 2020 - 5:04:12 AM
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3350 posts since 4/27/2004

That banjo is one of the very early ones, with what is called the "banner" headstock. Very few of them were made and all of them were assembled in 1993. I had the 2nd one off the assembly line and mine didn't have a label in it at first, because JD had not had time to sign the labels! I did later get one. What is the number stamped on the banjo? I have a list of almost all Rich&Taylor numbers, so I can probably tell you who it went to.

Congrats, they are great banjos!

Jan 24, 2020 - 5:11:50 AM

241 posts since 3/29/2018

"but can’t pick it up until February 8th due to a city ordinance on used items here in Knoxville."
Are you joking? A city ordinance on the selling or buying of a 'used' item?

Jan 24, 2020 - 6:04:48 AM

2325 posts since 1/16/2013

Hey Lynwood, very good info... I noticed the "banner" peg head as well. Did you play that R&T with the L&F in those days?
Thanks, Jim
 
Originally posted by southerndrifter

That banjo is one of the very early ones, with what is called the "banner" headstock. Very few of them were made and all of them were assembled in 1993. I had the 2nd one off the assembly line and mine didn't have a label in it at first, because JD had not had time to sign the labels! I did later get one. What is the number stamped on the banjo? I have a list of almost all Rich&Taylor numbers, so I can probably tell you who it went to.

Congrats, they are great banjos!


Jan 24, 2020 - 6:21:42 AM

3350 posts since 4/27/2004

quote:
Originally posted by 9470 Granada
Hey Lynwood, very good info... I noticed the "banner" peg head as well. Did you play that R&T with the L&F in those days?
Thanks, Jim
 
Originally posted by southerndrifter

That banjo is one of the very early ones, with what is called the "banner" headstock. Very few of them were made and all of them were assembled in 1993. I had the 2nd one off the assembly line and mine didn't have a label in it at first, because JD had not had time to sign the labels! I did later get one. What is the number stamped on the banjo? I have a list of almost all Rich&Taylor numbers, so I can probably tell you who it went to.

Congrats, they are great banjos!


 


Jim, I became an endorser for R&T in June of 1993, while I was a member of the Lost&Found. The SN on my banjo was 9306-017. Barry Abernathy got -016. The first 15 SNs were reserved for JD. I don't know how many of those were actually built. All models, in the beginning, had the "banner" headstock. Due to the threat of a lawsuit from Taylor guitar, the headstock logo was changed to just "R&T" sometime late in 1993 or early 94. As I stated before, there weren't very many banjos with the "banner" headstock produced before the change was made. 

Jan 24, 2020 - 6:56:38 AM
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Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5096 posts since 10/12/2009
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quote:
Originally posted by Astrobanjo

"but can’t pick it up until February 8th due to a city ordinance on used items here in Knoxville."
Are you joking? A city ordinance on the selling or buying of a 'used' item?


I believe it has something to do with making sure that pawn shop, second-hand store items, used items, etc.. are not stolen.

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:10:06 AM
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3326 posts since 3/28/2008

Or maybe the city wants to do a background check before they let you buy a banjo.

;^)

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:11:56 AM

3326 posts since 3/28/2008

quote:
Originally posted by 5strings3picks1banjo
I heard the Kulesh big 10 hole ring was a mistake but they went with it.


A mistake? How so? Number of holes?

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:21:30 AM

10 posts since 4/8/2019

When I pick it up in February I will get that number off the rim and post it here so we can see what we can make of it.


Thanks for all the replies so far, really helpful information. I hope more feel welcome to chime in.

The city ordinance is dumb — Guitar Center is the only store in town that follows it as far as I know. The idea is that if it is stolen, hopefully the original owner would find it there within 1 month before it moves on again. Seems like a good way to slow down and disrupt commerce.

Jan 24, 2020 - 11:48:37 AM
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1164 posts since 2/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by Ira Gitlin
quote:
Originally posted by 5strings3picks1banjo
I heard the Kulesh big 10 hole ring was a mistake but they went with it.


A mistake? How so? Number of holes?


Some years have past since I heard that. if anyone knows more about the ring and how it came to be tell us more. Maybe Janet Deering will chime in and confirm or deny that was said.

Edited by - 5strings3picks1banjo on 01/24/2020 11:50:49

Feb 8, 2020 - 4:07:15 PM
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10 posts since 4/8/2019

here are some more photos -- got the banjo today. Rim number is 9306 024




 

Feb 8, 2020 - 4:11 PM
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10 posts since 4/8/2019

couple more.




 

Feb 8, 2020 - 4:14:09 PM

1164 posts since 2/2/2008

Fantastic

Feb 9, 2020 - 4:53:39 AM

3350 posts since 4/27/2004

You've got the 9th banjo off the assembly line! Congratulations! Like the one I had, your banjo was assembled in June 1993. The only thing I don't see is a label signed by JD. Just like mine, apparently this one went out of the factory before JD signed the labels. You've got yourself a great, and rare, banjo!

Feb 9, 2020 - 5:24:22 AM

3350 posts since 4/27/2004

Your banjo is a standard "JD Crowe" model that was shipped on 6/23/1993 to Curtis McPeake.

Feb 10, 2020 - 8:14:11 AM

10 posts since 4/8/2019

Thank you so much for the info! I've got it set up and sounding great now. Curtis McPeake and Mark Taylor are both friends of a friend -- hopefully I'll get to visit with them over it a bit.

Feb 11, 2020 - 12:46:58 PM

DASJO

USA

98 posts since 3/17/2006

Hi Mason. Congratulations on the new banjo! Did you happen to note the id markings and number on the tone ring itself? It looks like you had it apart for a cleaning. These numbers are on the underside of the inner lip of the tone ring (not visible unless the tr is removed from the wood rim). Looks to me that you might have a 10 hole centrifugal cast ring.

Feb 11, 2020 - 12:52:03 PM

10 posts since 4/8/2019

David, I did not take the tone ring off -- but if I ever do I will make a note of those numbers. It is a 10 hole ring but I do not know much about the variations of such or the significance.

Feb 11, 2020 - 12:57:45 PM

10 posts since 4/8/2019

Might try and post a video of it before too long -- sounding great so far

Feb 13, 2020 - 1:02:46 PM

DASJO

USA

98 posts since 3/17/2006

I have two of these tone rings and they are great. I recall one is marked with the AFP (Anti friction products) Logo but I can't remember the number. I'll have to look over my records, somewhere I have it.... A picture next time I have it apart! Check with your friend, the maker, those rings may have been 'OEM standard' for your banjo. Best Wishes

Feb 13, 2020 - 1:20:34 PM

3350 posts since 4/27/2004

The 10-hole Kulesh ring was what all of the early Rich & Taylors came equipped with. They were centrifugally cast with virgin bell-bronze. A year or two later in production, R&T issued a notice that they would replace, free of charge to the original owner, the original Kulesh ring with a "new and improved" Tennessee 20 ring. I don't know how many were actually changed out but I didn't change mine out. I personally didn't think the Tennessee 20 was a better ring than the 10-hole Kulesh.

Feb 14, 2020 - 5:46:18 PM
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Players Union Member

NDJohn

USA

1471 posts since 7/28/2005

quote:
Originally posted by southerndrifter

The 10-hole Kulesh ring was what all of the early Rich & Taylors came equipped with. They were centrifugally cast with virgin bell-bronze. A year or two later in production, R&T issued a notice that they would replace, free of charge to the original owner, the original Kulesh ring with a "new and improved" Tennessee 20 ring. I don't know how many were actually changed out but I didn't change mine out. I personally didn't think the Tennessee 20 was a better ring than the 10-hole Kulesh.


The 10-holes were excellent rings.  I've worked with about a dozen of them.  Uniformly good, and, well, uniform, with almost no variance in weight and taptones.  
 

The TN-20 is,in my experience, also a fine ring, but has a narrow window of head tension where it speaks best.  And this varies with the individual banjo and neck wood.

--John

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