Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

414
Banjo Lovers Online


Flange comparison: Golden Gate P-25 vs. cheap Ebay flange

Want to hide these Google ads? Join the Players Union!
Jan 23, 2020 - 5:02:44 PM

easy

USA

221 posts since 1/23/2009

Hello friends. So, wanting to build some inexpensive parts banjos after some serious research, I bought a few cheap parts off of ebay (a flange, tension hoop, and tone ring- all purportedly of stainless steel), as well as a flange from Golden Gate (purportedly of pot-metal). If you're not in the know, many here on the hangout feel that pot-metal components are great for achieving a particular sound that they consider desirable (I will not try to describe that sound myself, as it is difficult enough to try to describe something so intangible even first-hand, and without so many "cooks in the kitchen"). While I don't yet have a rim on which to try out these parts, I thought I'd start by posting the dimensions and other notes about the two flanges:

At first glance, both flanges look identical: they have the same style cutout along the outer rim, and neither have any noticeable flaws in the finish.

The GG has an ID of 10.75-10.99 inches, so it is not perfectly rounded. The lip at the bottom of the flange is just at .1 inch. It weighs in at 680 g. It cost $64.95 on Amazon, shipping free.

The Ebay flange has an ID ranging from 10.78-10.87 inches, again not perfectly round. The lip is much smaller, just .06 inch. Its weight is 787 g. It cost only $15, with a shipping charge of $25 (although my shipping was less, divided between 3 items).

Both have a lip depth of 1/4 inch (distance from the top to the lip).

If anyone knows the relative weights of pot metal vs. stainless, please post.


That's all for now. I have router bit with changeable bearings (to control the depth of the cut) on order, so hopefully I can have these fitted to a rim shortly, at which time I can compare the sound. Any feedback is much appreciated. Later

Jan 23, 2020 - 5:36:25 PM

DRH

USA

306 posts since 5/29/2018

quote:
Originally posted by easy


The GG has an ID of 10.75-10.99 inches, so it is not perfectly rounded.

The Ebay flange has an ID ranging from 10.78-10.87 inches, again not perfectly round.
 


The first is out of round by 0.24" and the second by 0.09".   I hope others will chime in on this.

Jan 23, 2020 - 5:41:10 PM

easy

USA

221 posts since 1/23/2009

So just a quick update: I looked up the weights of Stainless and Zamak (yes, I realize that there are different alloys, but I figured it would be good enough for a ballpark figure): Zamak is listed at 6.6 g/cm cubed, while stainless is listed at 8.03 g/cm cubed. This yields a ratio 1.216, meaning stainless is 1.216 the weight of Zamak. The Chinese (stainless) flange is 1.157 times the weight of the Golden Gate rim. Given that they are not exactly identical in dimension, I'd say that this is within the margin of error for supposing that they are, in fact, composed of the metals that they are advertised as. If I get super motivated, maybe (just maybe) I'll use water displacement to get a more exact reading of volume, and thus density. Later

Jan 23, 2020 - 6:58:49 PM

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

I've bought 4 of the flanges off ebay too and they said they were steel but I don't believe they are. I wanted them because they are chrome instead of nickel plated. I bought 3 of the tenison hoops also and they are a tad thicker than Recording King. They are chrome plated too. I'm changing out Nickel for the chrome parts on my banjos. I've done 2 already. I'm well pleased with them!

Jan 24, 2020 - 6:31:28 AM

286 posts since 9/25/2006

roydsjr
easy

I'm interested in your thoughts on the quality/sound of these cheap ebay parts? For the prices I've seen, it's hard to not want to give these a try.

Also, the ones I've seen listed have indicated there might be oxidation/rust.  Did the parts you got have any of those issues?

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:42:21 AM
likes this

easy

USA

221 posts since 1/23/2009

Heya Ryan. I've given each piece a good look-over/inspection under the light, and there seems to be no such issue. The finish is nigh flawless on all pieces, except that the holes in the tone ring still have burrs on the inside (where they're not likely to cause any problem) from where they were drilled out. Keep in mind, there are probably several sellers of these same (or similar) inexpensive Asian parts, so I cannot vouch for all of them. I've not yet put them together, so I can't say if the tension ring notches will line up perfectly with the holes on the flange (which I had read was an issue for someone), but so far, so good.

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:43:21 AM

easy

USA

221 posts since 1/23/2009

Also, I bought from the same seller that you have linked to.

Jan 24, 2020 - 10:39:12 AM
likes this

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

Ryan, I can't tell any difference in tone or volume. I don't see any rust. The Flanges are a tad smaller than Recording King flanges so I use a dremel 1/2 drum and used it around the rim to get it to fit. I did not have to sand much. I put it on real tight so it would not warp with head tension. I don't believe the flanges are steel because they would weigh more and a magnet does not stick to it. I believe they are zinc alloy just like Recording King and others. The quality is good enough for me since I wanted chrome hardware. I've bought 3 clamshell tailpieces that are chrome too. They don't come with the attachment screw and nut . They are made well. I really wanted chrome presto style tailpieces but I have not come up with any. I know that some of the Gretsch banjos come with chrome presto, (9400 series). Anyway, I'm satisfied with the products.

Jan 24, 2020 - 12:27:33 PM

286 posts since 9/25/2006

Thanks guys! I've ordered a flange, tone ring, and tension hoop. Hopefully in 2-8 weeks I'll get to test them out!

Jan 24, 2020 - 2:26:43 PM

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

Ryan, I reused my Recording King Tone Ring. The Tone Ring you will be getting is either zinc or some of the light weight is steel alloy. Setup is important but they can sound very good. I took some pictures of a pot that I converted today. It is a RK-R 36 rim, tone ring that I changed the flange, tension hoop and hook set. I will reuse the Coordinator rod set and the resonator hardware. I plan to add a chrome clamshell tailpiece. This is the 3rd pot that I've converted.




 

Jan 24, 2020 - 2:28:07 PM

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

Also, I'll add a chrome armrest too!

Jan 24, 2020 - 6:39:32 PM
likes this
Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5142 posts since 10/12/2009

quote:
Originally posted by RedArrowRyan

Thanks guys! I've ordered a flange, tone ring, and tension hoop. Hopefully in 2-8 weeks I'll get to test them out!


Yhe ebay ad says $25.00 shipping......what did you pay for getting all 3 parts shipped?

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:11:42 PM

286 posts since 9/25/2006

RioStat I think the shipping was $25 for the first item, then $12 for each additional item.

roydsjr I’ve been buying broken RK-R35s and 36s and using all the metal components for some of my builds. Good quality parts, and cheaper than buying them separately. I’m hoping these eBay parts can still sound decent, but bring my cost down a bit. For sub $100, it’s worth trying!!!

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:23:12 PM
Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5142 posts since 10/12/2009

quote:
Originally posted by RedArrowRyan

RioStat I think the shipping was $25 for the first item, then $12 for each additional item.

roydsjr I’ve been buying broken RK-R35s and 36s and using all the metal components for some of my builds. Good quality parts, and cheaper than buying them separately. I’m hoping these eBay parts can still sound decent, but bring my cost down a bit. For sub $100, it’s worth trying!!!


Thanks for the reply.

I buy damaged, broken RK's, just for the parts, also.

I bought several RK Dirty 30's, both openback and resonator styles, off of one ebay seller, some as cheap as $79.00!

The necks and reso's are easily "re-purposed" into higher quality items!

Jan 24, 2020 - 7:28:19 PM

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

I bought 3 one piece flanges and the total was $75.00 . 10.00 a flange and the 45.00 for shipping. I bought my Tension hoops from another seller on ebay and I got them for about $17.00 each which included the shipping. I had to sign for the flanges for proof of delivery. They came fast through the mail, compared to regular purchases from China, Taiwan, Vietnam. The higher shipping cost is for the faster delivery I suppose. Ryan, I've done the same thing. I have 5 Recording King pots that I kept from broken Neck banjos etc. I bought mine over the last 2 or 3 years. You could buy them cheaper then. Most of the time won the bid on ebay. I like the Recording Kings as good as about anything out there in that price range. I make my own Necks so I plan to have several Gibson copies. I have a RB-4 Copy that I thought turned out very well. I used a No hole Recording King pot for it. Walnut Neck with Fly Eagle inlays, Ebony fingerboard. Burl Walnut Resonator. I plan to convert the hardware to chrome on it too!

Jan 26, 2020 - 7:14:42 AM

10540 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by roydsjr

I don't believe the flanges are steel because they would weigh more and a magnet does not stick to it.


The O.P. said they were described as stainless steel -- which is non-magnetic.

Jan 26, 2020 - 10:09:59 AM

roydsjr

USA

645 posts since 5/17/2007

I agree with you Ken that pure stainless is non- magnetic. I've sold enough scrap metal over the years to learn that. Of the listings on ebay for the flanges, they mention about possible rust on them and I don't recall that they were stainless, just the description of made of steel. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck.

Jan 26, 2020 - 4:19:09 PM

10540 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by roydsjr

. . . I don't recall that they were stainless, just the description of made of steel. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck.


I don't think you're being a smart aleck.  David said in his opening post the flanges were "purportedly of stainless steel."

I realize stainless shouldn't rust. Maybe the flanges you saw described as having rust are not the same ones described as stainless that David bought.

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.25