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Jan 18, 2020 - 5:23:18 AM
2 posts since 12/6/2019

I am hoping someone can help me out with any information on this banjo . It was my grandfathers that he received for his 15th Birthday in 1928 . I'm not sure if it was brand new at that time or 2nd hand . The only numbers or markings are on the brass ring shown in the photo . I took the head off and checked but there was no markings at all . Again any info at all would be appreciated.




 

Jan 18, 2020 - 6:27:16 AM

rmcdow

USA

790 posts since 11/8/2014

The patent is a Lange one, so it is likely a Rettberg & Lange banjo. Photos of the full front and side of the banjo, as well as the peghead would help.

Edited by - rmcdow on 01/18/2020 06:28:19

Jan 18, 2020 - 6:32:58 AM
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1523 posts since 6/2/2010

That sure is one pretty banjo.

Jan 18, 2020 - 7:28:07 AM
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Players Union Member

RioStat

USA

5095 posts since 10/12/2009

Jan 18, 2020 - 8:22:07 AM

1798 posts since 1/4/2009

Beautiful banjo, insane price!

Jan 18, 2020 - 9:17:27 AM

4611 posts since 3/22/2008

As mentioned above this banjo was made by Wm. L. Lange owner of the company and factory that made Paramount and Orpheum banjos in New York City in the 1920's. This banjo has the Lange-Tone flange and rim and was made in the 1930's. The rim and flange are completely different from the Paramount and Orpheum banjos and was introduced by Lange in the financial dark days of the 1930's. This banjo was more likely than not made for sale to a musical instrument jobber or music store as it des not have Lange's name inscribed in the peghead block. Also, Lange stamped his Lange-Tone flange banjos going to jobbers and other banjo makers with this Lange patent number. In the 1930's Lange's own proprietory Lange-Tone Flange banjos were the Lange-Craft line, the Paramount Trooper and occasionally the Paramount Style X. I've seen Lange-Tone Flange Paramount X banjos offered for about $700 but don't know what the final sales price was.

Jan 18, 2020 - 10:41:54 AM

2044 posts since 12/31/2005

Jan 18, 2020 - 10:58:45 AM

12520 posts since 10/30/2008

The Grover tailpiece is gold plated and engraved "DeLuxe", same as used on the Gibson Style 5. Are you sure the banjo metal is brass, and not gold plate?

Jan 18, 2020 - 11:03:21 AM

rmcdow

USA

790 posts since 11/8/2014

quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer

The Grover tailpiece is gold plated and engraved "DeLuxe", same as used on the Gibson Style 5. Are you sure the banjo metal is brass, and not gold plate?


From the wear marks I see, the nickel showing through, and the lack of tarnish, I'd say all the metal is gold plated.  Could you take a photo of the inside with the resonator off, at an angle, showing the tone ring if possible?

Edited by - rmcdow on 01/18/2020 11:05:45

Jan 18, 2020 - 11:41:03 AM

rmcdow

USA

790 posts since 11/8/2014

Here is a tenor banjo by Lange that is top tensioned like yours, has the same hole pattern, in nickel.

banjohangout.org/classified/44546

Jan 18, 2020 - 1:38:17 PM

4611 posts since 3/22/2008

I was wrong. Now that I see the inside of the rim in the BHO photos the Langstile rim is a lot more robust than the usual Lange-Tone Flange and rim (attached).
I expect that the OP banjo rim will look similar to the attached Lange-Tone Flange and rim but the the rim will be a lot more hefty.
The patent stamped on the flange was not meant to describe this banjo or Lange-Tone Flange banjos. The patent was taken much earlier to describe the original Paramount flange and resonator. But I guess Lange could argue that his patent covered all banjo extended flanges and resonators.
The tubes in the rim are Lange Triple X like but the Triple X banjo rim stopped below the head and left a gap through which banjo tone was supposed to flow forth.
But as for the OP banjo Lange was definitely a guy who liked to innovate.


Edited by - beezaboy on 01/18/2020 13:41:41

Jan 18, 2020 - 5:31:50 PM

3350 posts since 4/27/2004

Except for the toptension hoop, this banjo looks very much like the Epiphone Recording B that Eddie Adcock played for years with the Country Gentlemen.

Jan 19, 2020 - 2:05:02 AM

dugzbawz

Scotland

41 posts since 7/15/2010

Unfortunately nothing like the quality of an Epi B. This is a Langestyle Deluxe which was one of the cheaper banjos to come out of the Paramount factory around 1930. There is not much demand for this type of instrument and probably around $500-600 would be a good deal.
banjoworld.de/High443.htm
Best of luck, Jock

Jan 19, 2020 - 1:17:04 PM

562 posts since 5/4/2014

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.

Jan 19, 2020 - 6:41:52 PM

6691 posts since 8/28/2013
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.


That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.

Jan 19, 2020 - 7:21:02 PM

562 posts since 5/4/2014

quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie
quote:
Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.


That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.


Having seen a million banjos from the 1920s so many have Lange looking features and marquetry.  I dont like claiming too many things

Jan 19, 2020 - 10:28:41 PM

dugzbawz

Scotland

41 posts since 7/15/2010

How much proof do you require? If the link in my previous post is not enough try this one:-
lockyphoto.com/triplexbanjo/co...d-images/

Jock

Jan 20, 2020 - 1:13:22 AM

235 posts since 3/19/2018

I searched The USA Patent Office records Pat No1550826 which is stamped on the Banjo .

here is the link..

pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=01...N/1550826

Jan 20, 2020 - 3:35:34 AM

562 posts since 5/4/2014

Problem is many banjos have these characteristics (Iucci, Epiphone inlays, Majestic marquetry, Paragon, etc) yet they also have features and parts from Ludwig/Unknown/etc. Do I think they supplied parts, yes. But I dont think Lange made all this stuff.

Edited by - banjotrader on 01/20/2020 03:37:43

Jan 20, 2020 - 5:18:01 AM

1534 posts since 12/26/2007

For what it's worth, I have an electrified Langstyle Plectrum that looks very similar, dowel is stamped "Lange Made", same marquetry as the original post banjo. 

Mine must have been played a lot because, when I got it, it had the most deeply-rutted fingerboard that I've ever seen.  Deep ruts up to the 16th fret. 

http://yellowstone-jewelry.com/Banjos/For%20Sale/vintage%20tenor%20&%20plectrum%20banjos/YJ070%20Langstile%20Plectrum/YJ070%20Langstile%20plectrum.htm




 

Jan 20, 2020 - 5:51:07 AM

6691 posts since 8/28/2013
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by banjotrader
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie
quote:
Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.


That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.


Having seen a million banjos from the 1920s so many have Lange looking features and marquetry.  I dont like claiming too many things


It's pretty easy to see this is a Lange made product when comparing to images of Lange made products already posted here.

Jan 20, 2020 - 5:55:45 AM

562 posts since 5/4/2014

yes, yes, I got it... I'm saying that it's not a hard and fast rule that always works. There are many questions about his involvement in other makers affairs in the 1920s. There are Epiphone with his fingerboards on them, so they are Lange made banjos too? Clifford Essex tonering, flanges all Lange-ish, made in NY too? No.

Jan 20, 2020 - 6:52:20 AM
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6691 posts since 8/28/2013
Online Now

I agree that it's not a hard and fast rule, but in this case, it pretty much works. It's true that Lange-like features occur on other banjos, and some parts were likely supplied by Lange, but this one appears to be entirely made up of Lange-like parts, shapes, inlay patterns, etc.

If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.

Jan 20, 2020 - 10:40:31 AM

DSmoke

USA

797 posts since 11/30/2015

quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie


If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.


I get a feeling from this banjo that there would be a Bruno sticker on the dowel stick.

Jan 20, 2020 - 2:14:28 PM

6691 posts since 8/28/2013
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie


If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.


I get a feeling from this banjo that there would be a Bruno sticker on the dowel stick.


Actually, I have thought with no Lange name, Bruno would have been a very logical distributor of this one. I'm not sure if they woul;d have added a sticker, though.

Jan 20, 2020 - 10:54:11 PM

dugzbawz

Scotland

41 posts since 7/15/2010

Another alternative is that the original engraved MOP fell out and was lost (quite common). Someone replaced the inlay but did not have the skills to engrave it. Everything else says Wm Lange so it definitely quacks!
Jock

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