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Aug 18, 2019 - 1:07:40 PM
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29193 posts since 3/5/2008

It would ..Rock yer World ......if..

A few were prooved true....

Annahone know who coined the term ..
Conspiracy Theorist..?

Aug 18, 2019 - 1:09:05 PM
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figmo59

USA

29193 posts since 3/5/2008

Have you evah been..Lied to...by the one or ones.. you trusted the most...?

Edited by - figmo59 on 08/18/2019 13:09:49

Aug 18, 2019 - 2:31:22 PM

RonR

USA

1489 posts since 11/29/2012

You mean like having two sisters rob an estate of $200,000 with a crooked lawyer? It only happened once, but I save on Christmas cards.

Aug 18, 2019 - 2:44:34 PM

figmo59

USA

29193 posts since 3/5/2008

Yep...
That counts Ron...

Aug 18, 2019 - 2:55:42 PM

794 posts since 11/17/2018

Aug 18, 2019 - 3:03:32 PM
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52179 posts since 12/14/2005

Well, now friends an neighbors, let me tell you the LONG version.

I had dropped out of ONE school, and was looking around for something to learn to do, to have a steady job AND be of some use to the greater community.

My very oldest of SEVERAL sisters, had graduated from a 3-year Nurses' Training program, and, shazam! was instantly an OFFICER in the U.S. Army.

And OF COURSE the Army wanted men in that line of work, for heavy lifting, if nothing else.
So I went to nursing school for 2 & 1/2 of the 3 years.
Then it occurred to me, after flunking a 3-month block at the LOCKED WARD of the County mental health facility, that my NEXT 3 months was going to be PEDIATRICS.
And, I was VERY afraid that, from not doing enough homework, my incompetence would CERTAINLY kill a child.
So, I did what any reasonable, sane, homework hater would do.
Dropped out!

Went down to City Hall, to see if I could be a garbage man for a year or two, while I thought about some OTHER line of work.

Turns out they weren't hiring garbagemen that week, BUT!!
president Lyndon Baines Johnson was pouring MILLIONS into Model Cities, and Milwaukee was spending SOME of their loot on hiring people for the Health Department.

The exam cost $0.00 to take, and I had about that much left in savings, so I took the test, got the job.

A few years later, I'm talking to some tenant at a rental, and he's complaining about the landlord (No surprise there!)

ALSO complaining that the CIA was bugging his phone.

Back in class, at the County Nut house, when someone said something odd,  they taught us to ask, clinically but pleasantly

"And what makes you FEEL that way?"

Instead of saying

"No WONDER you're locked up in the loony bin!!"

So I asked him what made him feel that way.

He said I should just pick up his phone and listen to the dial tone.

Which I did. Land line. 1970's.

Told him it sounded like an ordinary dial tone, to MY ear.

His reply was

"See?? Who ELSE has got equipment THAT GOOD??"

The very fact that there was absolutely NO DETECTABLE EVIDENCE, was, in HIS good old opinion, all the evidence HE needed!

And I notice that, in many conspiracy theories, people claim that EVIDENCE is being SUPPRESSED.

But unless the evidence has been revealed and tested, how does anyone know there IS evidence?

To the Conspiracy Theorists, the very fact that there are RUMORS but no EVIDENCE, may be perceived as PROOF that the evidence is being COMPLETELY suppressed.

Like the evidence that Ralph Kramden murdered his wife, EXACTLY as he had often threatened, by sending her "To the MOON, Alice!" where she died from lack of oxygen, in a matter of minutes.

The THREAT was captured on video!

Remember! Back THEN, he was a UNION bus driver, and the Unions were run by Jimmy Hoffa, and Hoffa was part of the Mafia, and the MAFIA murdered JFK because JFK had started the Apollo program, to put a man on the moon, where they DID eventually find Alice Kramden's body.

But the evidence has been COMPLETELY suppressed!

So there!  cheeky

Aug 18, 2019 - 3:23:06 PM
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Mooooo

USA

7086 posts since 8/20/2016

quote:
Originally posted by figmo59

It would ..Rock yer World ......if..

A few were prooved true....

Annahone know who coined the term ..
Conspiracy Theorist..?


How about Watergate? That was a conspiracy theory thought up by two nuts who worked for a newspaper, until they proved it. Someone in the government probably coined the term so all the people who believe every piece of propoganda the government feeds us on a daily basis, have a reason to doubt those who would uncover governmental secrets and cover-ups. Calling someone a Conspiracy Theorist is a way to dismiss people and raise doubts about their claims without having to prove them wrong....and it is also used for guys who wear aluminum hats, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Edited by - Mooooo on 08/18/2019 15:35:01

Aug 18, 2019 - 3:37:29 PM
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794 posts since 11/17/2018

quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo
Calling someone a Conspiracy Theorist is a way to dismiss people and raise doubts about their claims without having to prove them wrong.

When there are no facts to support the "conspiracy theorist", it is on them to prove their claim.

Opinion is not fact.

Aug 18, 2019 - 4:15:29 PM
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Mooooo

USA

7086 posts since 8/20/2016

quote:
Originally posted by OldNavyGuy
quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo
Calling someone a Conspiracy Theorist is a way to dismiss people and raise doubts about their claims without having to prove them wrong.

When there are no facts to support the "conspiracy theorist", it is on them to prove their claim.

Opinion is not fact.


Throughout history, governments and others in control of information choose to mislead most people under their control. To blindly accept everything we are told is stupidity. You say Opinion is not fact, but many times what is touted as fact is not fact either.

Edited by - Mooooo on 08/18/2019 16:17:18

Aug 18, 2019 - 4:38:04 PM

1815 posts since 7/23/2015

Don’t believe ‘conspiracy theorist’ was first coined by anyone, no one can claim the original term?
Look at it this way?..Loaf of bread and a knife, now a person may say ‘Hey! Where’s that ‘bread knife!..Just a two word natural conjunction, happens most of the time I would think. Generally interesting threads as this one is become stretched toward politics..

Aug 18, 2019 - 4:54 PM

figmo59

USA

29193 posts since 3/5/2008

I do not know how to copy n paste it..

But it looks like it was first used in 1863...

Aug 18, 2019 - 6:56:01 PM

794 posts since 11/17/2018

quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo
but many times what is touted as fact is not fact either.

Depends on who is "touting" fact as fact.

Using credible sources goes a long way in helping to personally determine what is fact and what is fiction.

Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 08/18/2019 18:58:52

Aug 18, 2019 - 7:49:16 PM
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Players Union Member

Tommy5

USA

3376 posts since 2/22/2009

While conspiracy theories are fun to play abs often harmless ,they can lead to tragic consequences, The mother of all conspiracy theories was possibly the infamous , Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Basically it was about 12 Jews that ran the world and met in a cemetery in Prague. The whole thing was a forgery by Czarist Russia authorities. One poor starving artist in Vienna heard these theories and other similar ones and came to believe that a international conspiracy of Jews actually did run the western powers and had invented Communism as a sectarian religion to convince working people to follow them. The failed artist lead a failed coup after which he was sent to prison were he wrote down his ridiculous ideas in his book Mein Kampf . The world suffered enormously from this crap, Henry Ford published thousands of copies of The Protocols of Zion and handed out for free in Europe, he did admit he made a mistake by doing this.

Aug 18, 2019 - 8:29:30 PM
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2707 posts since 10/17/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo

To blindly accept everything we are told is stupidity. 


Just because the information comes from neighbor, someone on social media, celebrity, non-mainstream, anti-government type... doesn't meant it is any more valid. 

Conspiracy theorists are typically pretty gullible; blindly accept what they are told... if it fits their narrative... or what they want to believe (confirmation bias).  Often not single lone issue, but fall under conspiracy magnetism.

What they lack is ability, or logical thought process to determine what is told to them; what is likely and what is not; and lacking to differentiate verified info (vs rumor, conjecture) as evidence.

They do have a "few" accurate facts - typically only cherry picked ones to support theory (ignores others that contradict) More so it's about in showing those limited facts are connected. And then how it's filled in with other unverified; rumor, conjecture, innuendo, inaccurate information, debunked claims, and unverifiable. Filled with logic fallacies, and logical impossibilities; Often self-refuting, believe multiple contradicting information, and narratives. 

Aug 18, 2019 - 8:53:36 PM

2707 posts since 10/17/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo

Calling someone a Conspiracy Theorist is a way to dismiss people and raise doubts about their claims without having to prove them wrong....and it is also used for guys who wear aluminum hats, not that there's anything wrong with that.

That's a bit of a reverse logical fallacy (ad hominem); or used as false flag.

People are called Conspiracy Theorists "because" of all their claims; significantly being doubtful, unproven, conjecture' lack logic; and/or have been proven wrong.

But claims are not wrong simply because they are a Conspiracy Theorists (though naturally reduces their credibility, should be met with increased skepticism). But nor does using "being called CT" give credibility. (it's also a way  for CT to dismiss lack of evidence). It is still the burden of proof on the person making the claim.

No doubt, those that are involved in wrong doing, conspiring, cover-ups find that find dismissing as a CT useful. As such they might also actually promote all sorts of Conspiracy Theories they don't actually believe; including unwarranted ones and propaganda about themselves; to be able to play victim, dismiss warranted claims; and as a way to shift attention, confusion and thus hide their misdeeds.

quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo
How about Watergate? That was a conspiracy theory thought up by two nuts who worked for a newspaper, until they proved it. 

Watergate is a good example of the difference; did not originate as a "thought up" Conspiracy Theory; but rather hard work of good old Investigative Journalism, following and verifying actual information... of actual misdeeds. Gathering actual evidence, backed up by verified documents and sources. 

Conspiracy Theorists... their claims mostly lack documentation, and/or verified "source"... where did the information come from. Followers seem not concerned with asking... other than it came from a website, newsy site, or person they just "believe". 

Aug 19, 2019 - 5:03:33 AM

figmo59

USA

29193 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by banjoak
quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo

To blindly accept everything we are told is stupidity. 


Just because the information comes from neighbor, someone on social media, celebrity, non-mainstream, anti-government type... doesn't meant it is any more valid. 

Conspiracy theorists are typically pretty gullible; blindly accept what they are told... if it fits their narrative... or what they want to believe (confirmation bias).  Often not single lone issue, but fall under conspiracy magnetism.

What they lack is ability, or logical thought process to determine what is told to them; what is likely and what is not; and lacking to differentiate verified info (vs rumor, conjecture) as evidence.

They do have a "few" accurate facts - typically only cherry picked ones to support theory (ignores others that contradict) More so it's about in showing those limited facts are connected. And then how it's filled in with other unverified; rumor, conjecture, innuendo, inaccurate information, debunked claims, and unverifiable. Filled with logic fallacies, and logical impossibilities; Often self-refuting, believe multiple contradicting information, and narratives. 


Best post i have read in the last few years on the bho....

 

 

Still laughfing....at the ..irony....

 

Thankyou! :0)

Aug 19, 2019 - 9:23:32 AM

2585 posts since 7/28/2015
Online Now

What really surprises me about some of these conspiracy theories is that they make specific predictions that don't come true, but then people will continue believing them anyway. If an anonymous person says, "I have special knowledge of what is going on and on August 20th it will be announced by the FBI that Jeffrey Epstein is Jeff Lebowski." and then August 20th comes around and nothing happens, you should stop believing that person.

Aug 19, 2019 - 10:33:41 AM

Mooooo

USA

7086 posts since 8/20/2016

quote:
Originally posted by banjoak
quote:
Originally posted by Mooooo

To blindly accept everything we are told is stupidity. 


Just because the information comes from neighbor, someone on social media, celebrity, non-mainstream, anti-government type... doesn't meant it is any more valid. 

Conspiracy theorists are typically pretty gullible; blindly accept what they are told... if it fits their narrative... or what they want to believe (confirmation bias).  Often not single lone issue, but fall under conspiracy magnetism.

What they lack is ability, or logical thought process to determine what is told to them; what is likely and what is not; and lacking to differentiate verified info (vs rumor, conjecture) as evidence.

They do have a "few" accurate facts - typically only cherry picked ones to support theory (ignores others that contradict) More so it's about in showing those limited facts are connected. And then how it's filled in with other unverified; rumor, conjecture, innuendo, inaccurate information, debunked claims, and unverifiable. Filled with logic fallacies, and logical impossibilities; Often self-refuting, believe multiple contradicting information, and narratives. 


Yes, I see what you mean.

Aug 19, 2019 - 10:52:38 AM

2585 posts since 7/28/2015
Online Now

What does it take to have a successful conspiracy? It always seems to me that lots of the conspiracies that are theorized about lack the features that I would think would be required, such as:

1. Few people involved. (The more people who know about the conspiracy the more likely someone will blab.)
2. Those involved are personally motivated. (Someone who is only paid a little to be involved is likely to blab.)
3. It has to be easy to do and hard to prove.

I mean it is easy to think that a CEO at a chemical company might call up the CEO at a competitor and say "Hey we will stop making chemical ABC if you stop making XYZ, so that we can each charge more for the other." It is another thing entirely to stage a huge spectacle that large portions of the world are watching and has hundreds of participants and have them all keep it a secret for 50 years that it wasn't real.

Aug 19, 2019 - 10:53:49 AM

8819 posts since 2/22/2007

Frank posted---"comes around and nothing happens, you should stop believing that person.--"

That never seems to phase some of these who proclaim "the end of the world is coming on _____".
The world goes on, yet so does the proclaimer seemingly with no loss of followers.

Aug 19, 2019 - 10:56:46 AM

8819 posts since 2/22/2007

The most insane CTs to me are the ones that are supposed to be the centuries old scheme for world domination. People driven in that direction would tend to want to reap the results for themselves rather than those who come hundreds of years later, no? I guess if you believe in reincarnation----

Aug 19, 2019 - 11:34:26 AM

1203 posts since 2/10/2013

Reliability of humans as spectators is not highly rated. Witnesses to the same event report what they have seen, and the reports don't agree.   Human reliability as witnesses is unreliable.  No unicorns, mermaids, etc..

Take "bigfoot" for example. Did that creature charter a flight over from somewhere in the Himalayas ? And reports seem to say every sighting is a male. How do they reproduce ? In the past, there were more people in remote areas than there are today. Miners, lumberjacks, trappers, etc..  The town I was raised in was at one time the lumbering center of New York State, There were hermits in the woods, and once an mentally disturbed person in animal skins was encountered, But a "bigfoot" or its remains was never reported.

Some groups/individuals financially benefit from reporting unsupported theories. There are even videos on streaming TV.

Edited by - Richard Hauser on 08/19/2019 11:38:08

Aug 19, 2019 - 11:41:33 AM

794 posts since 11/17/2018

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hauser

But a "bigfoot" or its remains was never reported.


Cue Mike Gregory...

Aug 19, 2019 - 12:02:19 PM
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52179 posts since 12/14/2005

Let us not drift off into a personal discussion of the size of my feet.

Bigfoot IS mentioned  in Philip Jose Farmer's excellent little book

"Tarzan Alive"

Mr. Farmer very reasonably connects the dots between Tarzan and Doc Savage and Sherlock Holmes and several other fictional characters.

The Doc & Tarzan one is of interest at THIS point, because Tarzan was raised by apelike creatures, which HE called "apes", but that was based on "A is for APE" in the alphabet book he saw in his parent's tree house.

Doc Savage ahs a SCIENCE ADVISOR called "MONK", due to his apelike appearance.

Mr. F conjectures that Monk was one of the specie which raised Tarzan!

As to the END of the WORLD predictions, we are supposed to steer clear of discussions about which religions MIGHT BE scams.

However, I would invite anyone interested in the topic, to search the Internet for "Failed END of the WORLD" predictions.

One site lists over TWO HUNDRED, in the order in which they were predicted to occur.

My personal favorite is Rev. Harold Camping's.

Because a LOT of people sent him money, to help him spread the message.

No reports of ANYBODY getting any refunds, when it turned out he was wrong. Twice.

Aug 19, 2019 - 12:13:11 PM

Owen

Canada

3881 posts since 6/5/2011

Richard...I suspect there'd be fewer people/groups reporting unsupported theories, IF there were fewer people believing them.

Mike... I'm told that it's good to learn from one's mistakes.  Apparently the rev. thinks so, too.

Edited by - Owen on 08/19/2019 12:13:51

Aug 19, 2019 - 12:17:55 PM
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110 posts since 4/3/2009

quote:
Originally posted by mike gregory

... My personal favorite is Rev. Harold Camping's.

Because a LOT of people sent him money, to help him spread the message.

No reports of ANYBODY getting any refunds, when it turned out he was wrong. Twice.


Sean Watkins immoralized (misspelling intentional) this fella in a wonderful little ditty...

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