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Jul 16, 2019 - 7:36:25 AM
10513 posts since 2/12/2011

Anyone have a list??

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:06:17 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

23043 posts since 8/3/2003

Forward, reverse, square or any combination of those.

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:16:28 AM

69681 posts since 5/9/2007
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A lot of teaching books show 4 or 5 basic rolls in the beginning.

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:20:37 AM

51947 posts since 12/14/2005

Th 3, In 2, Th 5, M1, Th4,In2, Th5, M1
If memory serves, somebody called it the "Thumb in & Out Roll" or "Alternating thumb Roll".

One of them, then alternating thumb pinch, then the roll, then the pinch, will give me a solid foundation for my vocals.

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:22:08 AM
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255 posts since 2/6/2018

Aside from the basics, rollin' like the great Don Reno....one string at a time.

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:31:11 AM
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5387 posts since 3/6/2006

Why do you need a list?

Jul 16, 2019 - 8:35:20 AM
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69681 posts since 5/9/2007
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I never think about what roll I'm playing.

Jul 16, 2019 - 10:33:54 AM
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5387 posts since 3/6/2006

quote:
Originally posted by steve davis

I never think about what roll I'm playing.


You mean you don't consult your list in the middle of the tune?

Jul 16, 2019 - 11:10:20 AM
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14199 posts since 12/2/2005
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I use all all three true rolls: the forward (TIM), the backward (MIT), the beta (TMI) and two-note rudiments (TI, TM, IT, MT, etc.)

I put those together in combinations that produce the notes I want to play.

Those are rolls. Unless you're talking about 8-note roll PATTERNS. Don't get me started on those.

Jul 16, 2019 - 12:20:51 PM

10513 posts since 2/12/2011

thanks to all who answered

Jul 16, 2019 - 12:29:47 PM

chuckv97

Canada

41950 posts since 10/5/2013

quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland

I use all all three true rolls: the forward (TIM), the backward (MIT), the beta (TMI) and two-note rudiments (TI, TM, IT, MT, etc.)

I put those together in combinations that produce the notes I want to play.

Those are rolls. Unless you're talking about 8-note roll PATTERNS. Don't get me started on those.

Well, I’ll go contrary to your wishes, but I’m curious - Pls expound, Skip, on your thinking on learning 8-note roll patterns. 
Jul 17, 2019 - 1:14:15 AM
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2631 posts since 5/29/2011

If I try to think about what my right hand is doing I can't play a thing.

Jul 17, 2019 - 5:13:24 AM
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14199 posts since 12/2/2005
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quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97
Well, I’ll go contrary to your wishes, but I’m curious - Pls expound, Skip, on your thinking on learning 8-note roll patterns. 

 


From a few years ago.

Jul 17, 2019 - 6:22:39 AM
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phb

Germany

1903 posts since 11/8/2010

Most often used rolls? All rolls that use three different fingers within four consecutive eighth notes.

Jul 17, 2019 - 6:33:24 AM

3230 posts since 3/28/2008
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quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland

I use all all three true rolls: the forward (TIM), the backward (MIT), the beta (TMI) and two-note rudiments (TI, TM, IT, MT, etc.)

I put those together in combinations that produce the notes I want to play.

Those are rolls. Unless you're talking about 8-note roll PATTERNS. Don't get me started on those.


What you'd call "beta", I'd say is just a backward roll that starts on the thumb. But as you know very well, I don't disagree with you in any truly substantive way.

 

;^)

Jul 17, 2019 - 7:57:58 AM
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14199 posts since 12/2/2005
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quote:
Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

What you'd call "beta", I'd say is just a backward roll that starts on the thumb. But as you know very well, I don't disagree with you in any truly substantive way.


This is true. Repeat it more than once and it's essentially indistinguishable from a backward roll. Kimball notes this in the BNL articles cited.

Jul 17, 2019 - 8:14:24 AM

chuckv97

Canada

41950 posts since 10/5/2013

That was an excellent essay, Skip - I’d forgotten about it. I agree that practicing rolls can derail a student’s enthusiasm. For dexterity and timing issues, I think they can be valuable.
I had trouble for years, though, keeping a forward roll moving across the bar line when improvising, as the example below demonstrates (an excerpt from “Fireball Mail”). I had to practice it on its own, isolated from all else to get that sound/roll movement into my consciousness, if you will. i.e., 2 measures of 4 consecutive forward rolls followed by a square (alternating thumb) roll. Hence, I had a two-measure “roll pattern” ingrained into my mind & fingers.


 

Jul 17, 2019 - 8:47:47 AM
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5387 posts since 3/6/2006

I think it notable that Earl had never heard of "rolls" until Bill Keith introduced the topic. There were just melody notes and non-melody notes that were rendered in an organized way. As the style involved 3 fingers, certain patterns emerged as a result.

Jul 17, 2019 - 8:56:38 AM
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chuckv97

Canada

41950 posts since 10/5/2013

Yeah, I wonder if those Carolina guys back then talked or thought in terms of roll patterns. Earl’s oft-mentioned “eureka” moment when, as a boy, he found himself playing “Reuben” with thumb and two fingers, involved his using the square roll.

Edited by - chuckv97 on 07/17/2019 08:57:44

Jul 17, 2019 - 9:22:07 AM
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RB3

USA

510 posts since 4/12/2004

Who decided that we should call these identifiable and sometimes sequentially repeated right had finger patterns "rolls"? Also, why is "roll" the word that was chosen?

Jul 17, 2019 - 10:45:49 AM
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Mooooo

USA

7033 posts since 8/20/2016

quote:
Originally posted by RB3

Who decided that we should call these identifiable and sometimes sequentially repeated right had finger patterns "rolls"? Also, why is "roll" the word that was chosen?


Someone who thought arpeggio was too high falutin a word for banjo pickers.

Jul 17, 2019 - 2:04:52 PM

Owen

Canada

3710 posts since 6/5/2011
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quote:
Originally posted by RB3

Who decided that we should call these identifiable and sometimes sequentially repeated right had finger patterns "rolls"? Also, why is "roll" the word that was chosen?


...maybe it was the same dude who thought a chord sequence would be better called a chord progression.  

Jul 17, 2019 - 2:20:11 PM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

23043 posts since 8/3/2003

RB3 Maybeit started being called rolls because your fingers rolled across the strings?

Owen I think chord sequence and chord progression can be used synonymously.

Jul 17, 2019 - 2:21:21 PM
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6224 posts since 8/30/2004

Hi Ken,
The point of a roll is simply a technique of the Right Hand to carry a melody or lick. So it doesn't really matter what you call these right hand movements. I'm pretty sure that Bill Keith did not orginally invent the word.  That was just with regards to Earl's book.
I would think that Pete Seeger may have used that term much earlier. Who knows really. But to your question. Earl's books gives you all the directions of the right hand picking you'll need for just about any song. Any particular kind of rolls list would be probably in the words of whoever is teaching bluegrass banjo or the like.....Jack
 
Originally posted by kmwaters

Anyone have a list??


Edited by - Jack Baker on 07/17/2019 14:24:24

Jul 18, 2019 - 8:13:25 AM
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phb

Germany

1903 posts since 11/8/2010

I am pretty sure that someone here on the BHO pointed out that "roll" had already been a term for the very same thing in classic banjo playing.

Jul 18, 2019 - 11:18:12 AM

71 posts since 6/22/2012

In Ross Nickerson's book, there are many rolls to practice, pages of them actually.

I believe it was the Banjo Encyclopedia. He suggested using a metronome, and almost guaranteed results.

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