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Correcting erroneous and dangerous pro drug information posted on hangout

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May 29, 2019 - 6:12:18 PM
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5074 posts since 10/13/2007
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KCJONES posted this to me in another thread
"Ken,

Can you provide any proof of your claim that cannabis use causes brain damage? A scientific study published in a reputable journal would be preferred.

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer. Yes. I am advocating for a modern temperance movement. Alcoholism and drunkenness is a pox on our society and needs to be curtailed as much as possible."
So thank you for asking KC. I posted this information frequently recently:
1.https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2014/04/casual-marijuana-use-linked-to-brain-abnormalities-in-students

2.https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/legal-pot/even-little-marijuana-may-change-teen-brain-study-finds-n958536

3https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2678214

I believe these are creditable sources.

4. Lets join in believing that alcohol is bad and I would love to see it gone. But I tried to say, the more it is out of the bag the harder it is to get it back into it. But to support you, here are some benefits of prohibition of alcohol that the drug lobby does not want known.

http://www.prohibitionists.org/Background/Benefits_of_Prohibition.htm

KC,

In a post of yours that I guess the mods deleted (thank you), you suggested I might me lying. I would appreciate an apology.

Thank you. Have a good night.

Ken

May 29, 2019 - 6:12:37 PM

5074 posts since 10/13/2007
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May 29, 2019 - 7:32:42 PM

3326 posts since 8/3/2012
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If you already have a thread going on this topic, why do you see the need to start a new thread?

May 29, 2019 - 7:46:25 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

22013 posts since 6/25/2005
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Seems that one was locked, so this was started.  For the previous material , go here.

https://www.banjohangout.org/topic/354209/1

Note that this thread is also subject to locking.  

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 05/29/2019 19:49:12

May 29, 2019 - 7:48:46 PM

1663 posts since 10/17/2013

quote:
Originally posted by OldBlindGuy

If you already have a thread going on this topic, why do you see the need to start a new thread?


The original thread in which the “erroneous and dangerous pro-drug information” was posted, is locked for good. I had nothing to do with that. I’m truly amazed at the professional “lockers” on this site!

You would think they would give up at some point. But no, they find something to fester about and flame, until a moderator comes along and locks the topic, preventing more flaming. Happens more times than I can count.

Edited by - bluegrassbanjopicker on 05/29/2019 19:52:52

May 29, 2019 - 8:24:42 PM
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KCJones

USA

474 posts since 8/30/2012

I don't want to continue this but because it was requested I'll clarify.

I asked the mods to delete the post myself, because it came across much more inflammatory than I intended. So I do apologize for that comment, and I'm glad it was deleted.

I read the articles. The first doesn't give access to the study, it's just a summary. But it does give us some detail... A single study of 40 college students, that is the first study ever to come to the conclusions it does, and that has not yet been repeated. Interesting and warranting of further study, but certainly not conclusive of anything. The second study is similar, it does show more significant changes to the brain, but it's a study of 14-year olds. I don't think anyone is "advocating" for 14-year olds to do any drug, and I think most people agree that adolescent drug use is an objectively bad thing. (aside: How many under-18 users are even on this website?) The third study is a good one. Large sample sizes. A systematic review of 69 other studies! So this one is certainly significant. Their findings? "Although continued cannabis use may be associated with small reductions in cognitive functioning, results suggest that cognitive deficits are substantially diminished with abstinence." So basically, when you're high you have reduced cognitive functioning, and when you stop getting high the cognitive function comes back. Make sense to me, and does not support a claim of permanent brain damage. 

Ken, I'll give you that cannabis can affect brain development in adolescents. I'll agree that it shouldn't be used by children. That said, I don't think you've given any evidence to show permanent brain damage from sporadic use. So I guess we'll call it even. 

Also to be clear, I'm not advocating for any type of gubermint prohibition of alcohol. All drugs should be legal, this is a Free Country™ after all and I've never read anything in the Constitution that gives the government the power to control what type of substances a citizen ingests. I just think people should choose not to do drugs, voluntarily. 

Edited by - KCJones on 05/29/2019 20:26:22

May 29, 2019 - 8:25:45 PM
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KCJones

USA

474 posts since 8/30/2012

I think I tapped into politics with that last paragraph. Better lock this one too just to be safe.

May 29, 2019 - 9:18:30 PM
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donc

Canada

5853 posts since 2/9/2010

If I needed drug info I would likely consult a Mayo Clinic site, a Provincial government site, or maybe a Federal food and drug administration site. You can be sure that people in the know would not be contacting these sites for information on Banjos. I think the reverse is also true.

May 30, 2019 - 7:12:45 AM

5091 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by donc

If I needed drug info I would likely consult a Mayo Clinic site, a Provincial government site, or maybe a Federal food and drug administration site. You can be sure that people in the know would not be contacting these sites for information on Banjos. I think the reverse is also true.


I don't think it's that complicated Don.   Break your arm, kill a rabbit, get in a fight, skydive, etc., every life experience alters the brain to one degree or another.   Scrambling cognitive functions and then reassembling them is another life experience.   Every life experience effects the brain.  Every life experience alters the foundations of though and reasoning to one degree or another. 

That's basic.  You don't need a study from Johns Hopkins to know that. 

Whether or not intoxicants are beneficial is another issue, that's psycho / social in nature.  

  

May 30, 2019 - 7:23:33 AM

69496 posts since 5/9/2007

Far as I can tell I'm doing OK.

May 30, 2019 - 7:33:25 AM
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2134 posts since 9/12/2016

yep case by case
over bearing folks trying to make me'' the same as them'' causes my thoughts to keep going back to them, but the devil in me causes me to go the opposite way than their rants .
With PC being so in vogue there is a lot of this'' going on''. IMO 50 years ago when private lives were kept private was a better way.
I like to leave grown up folks to their own devices on their turf and I expect the same.
In public places I try to do the same but don't start no crap if you can't handle the heat

Edited by - Tractor1 on 05/30/2019 07:36:22

May 30, 2019 - 7:33:39 AM
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Owen

Canada

3593 posts since 6/5/2011

Well John, I've been lucky (?) enough to have broken relatively few bones.  I suppose if I'd thought about it I'd have preferred John Hopkins tell me about the pain of cracked ribs, but n-o-o-o!! ... not me... I had to experience it for myself.   

.... and what if, after the cognitive functions get scrambled, the "reassembly" goes kerflooey?

Somewhere along the line I've heard/read that the ability to learn from the experiences of others is one trait that sets man apart from other life forms.

May 30, 2019 - 7:59:54 AM

2134 posts since 9/12/2016

After many years, I don't put as much stock in government recognized medical groups. They sometimes get it wrong or sometimes don't really have a clue. The graveyards are full of proof. Great human beings that some ''try to be'' they are not the all seeing eye and don't get my complete commitment.

Edited by - Tractor1 on 05/30/2019 08:00:41

May 30, 2019 - 8:09:48 AM

5091 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Well John, I've been lucky (?) enough to have broken relatively few bones.  I suppose if I'd thought about it I'd have preferred John Hopkins tell me about the pain of cracked ribs, but n-o-o-o!! ... not me... I had to experience it for myself.   

.... and what if, after the cognitive functions get scrambled, the "reassembly" goes kerflooey?

Somewhere along the line I've heard/read that the ability to learn from the experiences of others is one trait that sets man apart from other life forms.


Good one Owen... I think higher order predators like wolfs and dogs do it too

BTW:  No one agrees with me and I'm getting a complex crying

May 30, 2019 - 11:20:16 AM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

22917 posts since 8/3/2003

Let's see if we can keep "government" out of this discussion, please.

May 30, 2019 - 12:03:20 PM
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2134 posts since 9/12/2016

I said that G word but it was not a a political view ,the quote about mayo clinic etc,brought one of my views to the ''front burner"
I tend to say federal highway or state park and look at the most acclaimed medical community as those groups, with recognition from the same sources.I guess I never thought that was a political view .I have trouble seeing things the way others do sometimes.

If we want to discuss drugs being dangerous and say illegal,every one will know some rule maker was involved

Edited by - Tractor1 on 05/30/2019 12:11:21

May 30, 2019 - 12:18:18 PM
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69496 posts since 5/9/2007

I'm not erroneous or dangerous.

May 30, 2019 - 12:20:20 PM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html

Another possible safety issue other than "brain-damage", with not enough research.  I guess my position is that more research is needed and I don't think that it would be done effectively by the marijuana industry.

May 30, 2019 - 12:24:32 PM

69496 posts since 5/9/2007

It's been smoked for 100s of years.
I think the results are well known by those that use it.

May 30, 2019 - 1:06:39 PM

69496 posts since 5/9/2007

There is definitely a bonafide pot industry.
Getting bigger every day.

May 30, 2019 - 1:14:56 PM
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5091 posts since 9/16/2004

In the sixties in The City, all my friends were doing it.  I was eighteen when I first got stoned on weed.  And even though I liked the effect, my first thought was, "if this stuff gets popular, nobodies going to want to go to work."


 

May 30, 2019 - 1:15:11 PM
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898 posts since 2/4/2013

The only way to deal with drugs use is to treat it as a health issue and not a criminal issue or an issue that needs prohibition laws.

May 30, 2019 - 1:15:51 PM
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2134 posts since 9/12/2016

quote:
Originally posted by prooftheory

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html

Another possible safety issue other than "brain-damage", with not enough research.  I guess my position is that more research is needed and I don't think that it would be done effectively by the marijuana industry.

I tend to think their paychecks come from that anonymous source,  we are not to mention  .
I suppose weed has came to be an industry by now,I have trouble seeing that though and I ain't been smoking.

Edited by - Tractor1 on 05/30/2019 13:16:57

May 30, 2019 - 1:19:34 PM

2134 posts since 9/12/2016

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker

The only way to deal with drugs use is to treat it as a health issue and not a criminal issue or an issue that needs prohibition laws.


Who would do this?

May 30, 2019 - 1:28:50 PM
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134 posts since 10/30/2017

quote:
Originally posted by Tractor1
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker

The only way to deal with drugs use is to treat it as a health issue and not a criminal issue or an issue that needs prohibition laws.


Who would do this?


Portugal decriminalised all drugs and now treat it as a medical problem. Addicts get help instead of being locked up and having their lives ruined. Treating addiction is better than increasing misery. 

May 30, 2019 - 1:29:25 PM

5091 posts since 9/16/2004

quote:
Originally posted by Tractor1
quote:
Originally posted by prooftheory

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html

Another possible safety issue other than "brain-damage", with not enough research.  I guess my position is that more research is needed and I don't think that it would be done effectively by the marijuana industry.

I tend to think their paychecks come from that anonymous source,  we are not to mention  .
I suppose weed has came to be an industry by now,I have trouble seeing that though and I ain't been smoking.

There's no doubt in my mind that the widespread use of marijuana has had an effect on the social mores of the country.  Since San Francisco seemed to be the epicenter of the movement, I witnessed the changes... and they were quite rapid.  Long held social standards were questioned and some were crushed.  Ironically, in spite of songs like Jesse Colin Young's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJYxPN8qIA  society became more divided. 

  

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