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Mar 15, 2019 - 8:51:39 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle
 

Also, be sure to listen to Trout Mask, Decals, and Doc a few times before casting judgement. If it's going to click it likely won't happen immediately. The first track of Trout Mask is the most inaccessible and often loses people right away.

At the very least, these albums will make you rethink a bunch of different musical concepts, and most people seem to enjoy Clear Spot a lot even if they dislike the other albums.


Ok, I’m going to start where you say, Safe as Milk.  Listening to it now.

 

This cracks me up…1st track on the album slams the door shut.


I think Don Van Vliet was the greatest white guy ever to sing the blues. In the later albums yoully hear some serious Howlin Wolf and Muddy Waters influence.

Edited by - csacwp on 03/15/2019 08:52:10

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:53:02 AM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

There is a lot of new name music to me that I have to check out from this thread for sure now John!

John C., I'm liking A Love Supreme more and more. Resolution is my favorite right now. I have the deluxe two discs, the first release, and with the live renedition, and alt takes. I'll listen to it hours on end, especially when I'm driving.

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:55:32 AM

433 posts since 9/6/2014

I meant to add, I agree with the positive comments about Miles's In A Silent Way. Some beautiful material there.

Mar 15, 2019 - 9:04:09 AM

2247 posts since 2/16/2017

quote:
Originally posted by csacwp
quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle
 

Also, be sure to listen to Trout Mask, Decals, and Doc a few times before casting judgement. If it's going to click it likely won't happen immediately. The first track of Trout Mask is the most inaccessible and often loses people right away.

At the very least, these albums will make you rethink a bunch of different musical concepts, and most people seem to enjoy Clear Spot a lot even if they dislike the other albums.


Ok, I’m going to start where you say, Safe as Milk.  Listening to it now.

 

This cracks me up…1st track on the album slams the door shut.


I think Don Van Vliet was the greatest white guy ever to sing the blues. In the later albums yoully hear some serious Howlin Wolf and Muddy Waters influence.


I’m realizing that I actually have listened to some Capt Beefheart before.  I was really into Zappa for a while in my early twenties and I branched out from there.

 

For some reason I didn’t know this was where Ry Cooder came from.  I have some old Ry Cooder shows in a book of burned discs somewhere. I was really into Taj Mahal.  

 

I used to actively trade live recordings through the mail back before youtube and streaming was a thing. 

Mar 15, 2019 - 9:06:11 AM

malarz

USA

367 posts since 1/5/2007

Just a casual return to a banjo-centric topic...did either Miles Davis or Captain Beefheart record with a banjo player? To my thinking they both were visionaries and would have “heard” banjo somewhere in their comnpositions.

Mar 15, 2019 - 9:09:33 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle
quote:
Originally posted by csacwp
quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle
 

Also, be sure to listen to Trout Mask, Decals, and Doc a few times before casting judgement. If it's going to click it likely won't happen immediately. The first track of Trout Mask is the most inaccessible and often loses people right away.

At the very least, these albums will make you rethink a bunch of different musical concepts, and most people seem to enjoy Clear Spot a lot even if they dislike the other albums.


Ok, I’m going to start where you say, Safe as Milk.  Listening to it now.

 

This cracks me up…1st track on the album slams the door shut.


I think Don Van Vliet was the greatest white guy ever to sing the blues. In the later albums yoully hear some serious Howlin Wolf and Muddy Waters influence.


I’m realizing that I actually have listened to some Capt Beefheart before.  I was really into Zappa for a while in my early twenties and I branched out from there.

 

For some reason I didn’t know this was where Ry Cooder came from.  I have some old Ry Cooder shows in a book of burned discs somewhere. I was really into Taj Mahal.  

 

I used to actively trade live recordings through the mail back before youtube and streaming was a thing. 


Beefheart and Zappa were childhood friends, and Zappa produced a couple of his albums. As far as Cooder is concerned, Beefheart recruited him from Taj Mahal in 1967.

Mar 15, 2019 - 9:12:17 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by malarz

Just a casual return to a banjo-centric topic...did either Miles Davis or Captain Beefheart record with a banjo player? To my thinking they both were visionaries and would have “heard” banjo somewhere in their comnpositions.


I can't speak about Miles, but I've read the (exhaustingly comprehensive) memoirs of some of the Beefheart musicians and there is not a single mention of banjo playing. They were really into delta blues guitar playing... And come to think of it, I can't think of a genuine delta bluesman who played banjo.

Other Beefheart influences included surf bands, psychedelic rock, free jazz (Beefheart was friends with Ornette Coleman), avant jazz like the Roland Kirk Quartet (there are some Roland Kirk licks on TMR  and Decals if you listen carefully), Miles Davis (a favorite of Beefheart's  was Sketches of Spain), sea shanties (hence Orange Claw Hammer) and various painters (especially surrealists and abstract expressionists). Beefheart himself was first and foremost a visual artist and would later find great success painting expressionistic American landscapes.

Actually, I just remembered that Beefheart's and Zappa's favorite album has banjo on two tracks. I'll share the name shortly... Have to go find the CD in my collection.

Edited by - csacwp on 03/15/2019 09:29:32

Mar 15, 2019 - 9:37:32 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014
Online Now

The album is called Blow Boys Blow by Ewan Macoll and A. L. Lloyd. A bit of banjo on it... Bluegrass and clawhammer if I recall. All I know is that it was Beefheart's and Zappa's "desert island" album. It's rather profane and lurid  as well but that's part of the fun.

Edited by - csacwp on 03/15/2019 09:47:55

Mar 15, 2019 - 10:24:46 AM

Mooooo

USA

6191 posts since 8/20/2016

My dad, a huge dog lover, never hesitates to point out how nice some b**** is when he sees one. If he sees one he says "look at that b**** over there, she's a beauty"...it's shocking, but the correct usage of the word. And not profane whatsoever. Maybe this album is about a thirsty dog.

Mar 15, 2019 - 12:16:01 PM

85 posts since 4/21/2009

I had a luthier write "fast'n'bulbous" on the back of a mandolin soundboard after he'd voiced it :)

Mar 15, 2019 - 12:31:36 PM

892 posts since 9/13/2018
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I love hearing a good trumpet in a song. Same for the sax, it’s just got a groovy sound!

Bruce

Mar 15, 2019 - 3:09:43 PM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

22442 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie
quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo

FYI: certain profanity words are x'd out. If they get too raunchy, the poster may be given a warning about profanity and if that doesn't work, a time out. Check the rules, it says: "Profanity or Racial/Religious Slurs: Keep in mind that these forums are visited by people of all ages and backgrounds. Besides.. a foul mouth doesn't impress anyone."

While a mild curse word may not be x'd out, most are.


Would this particular "B" word be x-ed out if it had been used as its original definition meaning "female dog?"

Sometimes polite society can be too polite, and that can sometimes be offensive in itself. Personally, I would wish for my children to know the correct meanings of certain words. Another example of stupid PC tricks would be the word "A**," which originally was an animal designation, is used frequently in the Bible, and was one of the few "obscenities" that were not censored by the Hays office when used in motion pictures. 

Do what you feel, but please accept that there are words that should only be offensive to imbeciles with dirty minds. And please be aware that when referencing a song title or quoting a veterinary journal, some of these words are necessary and not intended to be offensive.


Unfortunately, the 'xing is done by a computer program.  The computer doesn't know whether you're talking about a female dog or what.  Same thing with the ass word, it doesn't know whether you're talking about a donkey or using the word as a swear word.

We mods have no control over what's x'd out and what's not x'd out.   That would have to be changed by whoever programed the software.

Mar 15, 2019 - 5:55:28 PM
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163 posts since 9/6/2016

Love electric era Miles; “A Tribute To Jack Johnson” gets the nod for me over its more famous predecessors.

If you like that sound, absolutely check out The Soft Machine, especially the 1969 double album “Third”.

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:05:50 PM
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9785 posts since 4/15/2012

quote:
Originally posted by northernbelle

a nice drive on a long straight (no chaser) stretch of road


Nyuk nyuk. Yes, we get it.

Frankly, I much prefer Tal Farlow's version of 'Straight No Chaser'.

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:06:27 PM
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3337 posts since 10/10/2008

Yeah David I LIKE it all but I LOVE the early stuff. I’m that way with everything tho

Mar 16, 2019 - 5:39:45 AM
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CGDA

Italy

1886 posts since 1/4/2009

Omnia munda mundis. (lat. cit)  wink

Mar 16, 2019 - 5:59:27 AM
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4783 posts since 11/13/2005

That's a very interesting statement Marco. I love it. I certainly think all of Miles music is pure. I think anything that is original has to be pure? Am I right? I'm an optimist, so I don't think Miles, or his music, was defiled in nature.

Mar 16, 2019 - 8:01:32 AM
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CGDA

Italy

1886 posts since 1/4/2009

David, a jazz/blues lover cannot be shocked by some titles or lyrics of certain songs. Black people seems to have a less obsessive relationship with sex than white and their religions. It seems to me to remember that Alan Lomax forced Jelly Roll to modify the text of "Winin 'Boy", because it was considered too explicit ... sometimes the past repeats itself even in a somehow different way. In my opinion that doesn't a matter, the music does!

Mar 16, 2019 - 8:03:28 AM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

Well said Marco

Mar 16, 2019 - 11:12:34 AM
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142 posts since 11/21/2018
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Meles Meles, when I was in college I had Thad Jones (Cornet, trumpet, flugelhorn) as my big band director. We played Monk's "Straight No Chaser" the lst time I'd heard it and I just loved it! Addicting, quirky lines...
At the time I didn't know that Thad had played with Monk and had a well known recording of it. I only discovered it about 20--30 years later, sadly. I used to help his brother Elvin unload his drum kit from the back of a truck. Hank also sat in and he was SO impeccably dressed, gentle and sophisticated compared with his brothers.

This was my lst foray into jazz having grown up in a classical and folk listening family. (My Grand Uncle was the last living member of the original New York Symphony Orchestra the precursor to the Philharmonic.
(Viola). I unfortunately had no where near his ear, talent or drive...

Jeff P. After 20 years in the closet, I was asked by a neighbor to play some baroque duets with him. I thought It would take months and months to get my embouchure back but amazingly after only a couple of weeks of daily practice I could play concertos with him. Sadly, the playing situation didn't last more than a few months and the trumpet is back in the closet.
I've thought about community bands but I always feel frustrated and edgy because many players only dabble and don't practice or strive for as much of a flawless/classy performance as they can. Maybe one day, when I'm too old to travel, I'll join one. I like the fact that community bands/orchestras exist but if the dedication to quality isn't there I'm not excited to practice the scores when others aren't... so bye bye embochure...for now.

The banjo also sat in a closet (mostly) for 20 years so my banjo "embochure" is also gone.  Back to the beginning but not in "A Silent Way" ;-)

Seriously though, I'd be interested in hearing if others who don't like "B's Brew" try driving around with it (not in city traffic but on the open road" find they like it better.  It could just be me.  Speaking of MIles, I tried the Don Cheadle "bio" movie, really was looking forward to it, but couldn't get past the lst 20 min. or so. There was SO much to show/talk about but it just didn't seem to "get there"...

Edited by - northernbelle on 03/16/2019 11:18:43

Mar 16, 2019 - 11:28:29 AM
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4783 posts since 11/13/2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoiJr1B0O7Q

Thad Jones was one of your Professors? That is too cool......and you knew Elvin?.......waay cool.

Do you have any sounds on your 5 belle? I'd love to hear what you're working on.

ps -I didn't know they were brothers

Mar 16, 2019 - 11:45:24 AM
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2247 posts since 2/16/2017

You've had some pretty cool experiences northernbelle. That's encouraging to hear that I might be able to get it back one day when the circumstances are right. There are several county bands around here, and I understand one of them to be pretty serious about what they do. I wouldn't know how serious until I venture into that territory, of course. I agree, it would not be fun if you are putting in the work, trying to be the best as you can be, and others are phoning it in.

David, if I can make it up to your neck of the woods this summer I'll bring my horn and trade you a trumpet lesson for a banjo lesson.

Mar 16, 2019 - 11:49:24 AM
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4783 posts since 11/13/2005

That's a deal my friend

Mar 16, 2019 - 1:22:23 PM
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142 posts since 11/21/2018
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David, no, sadly I'm a rank beginner banjoist. I played several rehearsed/memorized fiddle tunes and accompaniment on Judy Collin's songs and our own originals, with my wife when we had our American duo/band and sounded like I was a great banjoist, but it's only now after a 20 year complete break that I'm seriously working on becoming at least a half way decent Bluegrass banjo player. I played bass guitar mostly and did regional recording studio session work for a few years before the '08 economic crash wiped 'em out. 

I never did get a good ear training to stick. I grew up playing "fly specks" off the scores for well over a decade, played in the Classically oriented Music Ed. (teaching) groups like Brass Ensemble, Orchestra, etc.
I'm REALLY kicking myself for not going to SEE Monk and others in N.Y.C. when I had the chance, but I just didn't know I was going to like Jazz that much until a few years after that.
Still going into "the city" for Rock and folk acts...and...oh yeah...The original Woodstock Festival! I went thinking and saying (yes, out loud) "Perhaps this would give me the opportunity to see if I care for hard rock music..." Ha! Was never the same after that.

Jeff, I heartily encourage you to seek out a community/county band and explain your long lay off to the director. I would ask him or her if you could get photocopies of some of the pieces they're working on and ask for 3rd or 4th "chair" trumpet parts. These, if you're not familiar with them are often very boring and very easy....lots of half and whole notes and more boring empty measures to count out (ONE, 2, 3, 4-39, 2, 3, 4 :-) A non threatening and easy way to give it a try and get your lip back doing what will likely amount to a lot of "long tone blowing". Directors are often open to your sitting in on a rehearsal (to listen, always) to play, maybe after they hear your 3rd or 4th parts.
You might surprise yourself after a few weeks to a couple of months and feel like, "Gee, I could probably play 2nd chair now that this is all coming back"...

These days after teaching in the "regular classroom" for many years (oh those music program budget cuts!) I've forgotten far more music theory than I ever knew. All of my ear training has evaporated through dis-use. Moving to more remote/rural areas kinda killed the life as a steady pro musician life.  Just a porch picker now.

 

Edited by - northernbelle on 03/16/2019 13:31:07

Mar 16, 2019 - 8:26:50 PM

2247 posts since 2/16/2017

 


Jeff, I heartily encourage you to seek out a community/county band and explain your long lay off to the director. I would ask him or her if you could get photocopies of some of the pieces they're working on and ask for 3rd or 4th "chair" trumpet parts. These, if you're not familiar with them are often very boring and very easy....lots of half and whole notes and more boring empty measures to count out (ONE, 2, 3, 4-39, 2, 3, 4 :-) A non threatening and easy way to give it a try and get your lip back doing what will likely amount to a lot of "long tone blowing". Directors are often open to your sitting in on a rehearsal (to listen, always) to play, maybe after they hear your 3rd or 4th parts.
You might surprise yourself after a few weeks to a couple of months and feel like, "Gee, I could probably play 2nd chair now that this is all coming back"...

These days after teaching in the "regular classroom" for many years (oh those music program budget cuts!) I've forgotten far more music theory than I ever knew. All of my ear training has evaporated through dis-use. Moving to more remote/rural areas kinda killed the life as a steady pro musician life.  Just a porch picker now.

 


If I were to get back into it I would probably have no choice but to take an approach like that, even though even 2nd trumpet parts used to bore me.  It was probably an ego thing, though.  I was 1st section from 7th grade on, I was principle through most of high school.  I wouldn't be able to come in like a hot shot after a 15 year layoff, though. 

Honestly, I'm more drawn to the french horn if I were to make a brass comeback.  I played horn for a couple years in high school orchestra and loved the change of pace from trumpet.  I listen to a lot of classical music and the horn is the brass instrument that gives me goodbumps these days (Brahms Symphony No. 1 for instance). I picked up a beautiful pre-war Conn 6-D off of craigslist for cheap a couple years ago.  Conn horns have a similar post war dropoff in in quality/mystique as Gibson banjos do.  The thing needs some work, but it sounds incredible.  And every band needs another horn player. 

I'll get back to it someday, but free time is scarce right now.  I have so much fun playing the banjo, that is what I dedicate the time I have available for music to.  Such a cool and fun instruments, and your chops never get blown.  You can play for as many hours straight as your wife will allow...

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