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Mar 14, 2019 - 8:06:59 PM
4783 posts since 11/13/2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLUJZUKJ1BM

Since this is a Jazz forum, I'd like to ask a question. Do you like this timeframe of Miles' music? He went through many changes.....bop forward....I like Miles pretty much all the way.......I don't know why....but I do. Do you think it's something like a Greatful Dead type of thing?.....you know....smoke...and the music sounds better?

Mar 14, 2019 - 8:36:37 PM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

The Title of Miles tune gets blanked out?.........oy vey

Mar 14, 2019 - 8:54:46 PM
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433 posts since 9/6/2014

Thanks for posting this up, David. I remember when this album came out. It made a huge splash in the music press. HIs talent was immense, as much in this material as in any of his earlier phases. That said, it's hard for me to listen to this music for very long. His earlier work on standards, well I could listen to that stuff all day every day (albums like Kind of Blue, Milestones, etc.). It spoke to me more than the b****es Brew material did. When I was in high school, one of my friends (who I played with in a rock band) really loved b****es Brew. At the time, I couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I have a better appreciation for it now, but it's still hard for me to listen to for any length of time.

Mar 14, 2019 - 8:56:10 PM
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433 posts since 9/6/2014

And that is strange about this particular word being ***'d out. This is 2019, not 1960.....I think.....

Mar 14, 2019 - 9:10:59 PM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

I love Miles earlier music the best too John, but I'm starting to understand his later as well. It's a mind thing......I don't know. Maybe it's drug induced.

Mar 14, 2019 - 9:19:16 PM
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433 posts since 9/6/2014

LOL....Yes, I also have a better appreciation for his late stuff than I used to. And if I'm in a certain mood, I can listen to it and be absolutely amazed at how his mind worked, his approach to music, etc. He was a trailblazer, a musical path finder, to the very end. I remember a quote from him (I think it was Keith Jarrett who told this story in a film about Miles), that the reason he stopped playing standards is because he loved standards. He wanted to keep inventing new things and not just play the music he liked. That takes real commitment.

Mar 14, 2019 - 9:22:34 PM
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433 posts since 9/6/2014

Afternoons? He was probably just waking up.....

Mar 14, 2019 - 9:27:21 PM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

Where did your post go Paul? It's all good.....don't be afraid

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:35:34 PM
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144 posts since 11/21/2018

I was a trumpet major in college. I hated this album for a long time but then I drove around with it in the car stereo and realized that it's all "propulsive" music. The intended energy of the compositions/improv. seem to suddenly "make sense". It's more of a rhythmic feel music than his earlier more melodic stuff. I really like it now. Another great and slightly more accessible album is "In a Silent Way" the box set. It paved the way for "B's Brew". (Not sure if the mods amended the word so I'll use the amended form.) Put it in your car and take a nice drive on a long straight (no chaser) stretch of road and see what you think. Listening to it in my living room just made me fidgety :-)

Miles was big on leaving space (not playing) in his performances and encouraging his bands to take risks. Some of this was no doubt drug influenced considering Miles and the times. Later he got even more commerical sounding trying to compete with the $ the rock bands were getting and the jazz cats were not. Most of the stuff later than B's Brew I haven't been able to warm up to.  He and Jimi Hendrix were planning on doing a project together which would have been really great to have heard.

Edited by - northernbelle on 03/14/2019 22:39:37

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:46:45 PM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

I think I love you northernbelle

Mar 15, 2019 - 2:33:42 AM
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csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014

I love this era of Miles' music, but I'm also a Captain Beefheart fan so this really isn't that out there for me.

Mar 15, 2019 - 4:39:39 AM

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

22448 posts since 8/3/2003

FYI: certain profanity words are x'd out. If they get too raunchy, the poster may be given a warning about profanity and if that doesn't work, a time out. Check the rules, it says: "Profanity or Racial/Religious Slurs: Keep in mind that these forums are visited by people of all ages and backgrounds. Besides.. a foul mouth doesn't impress anyone."

While a mild curse word may not be x'd out, most are.

Mar 15, 2019 - 4:58:10 AM

230 posts since 8/14/2018

quote:
Originally posted by csacwp

I love this era of Miles' music, but I'm also a Captain Beefheart fan so this really isn't that out there for me.


A squid playing banjo is fast and bulbous.

Mar 15, 2019 - 5:10:04 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014

quote:
Originally posted by MacCruiskeen
quote:
Originally posted by csacwp

I love this era of Miles' music, but I'm also a Captain Beefheart fan so this really isn't that out there for me.


A squid playing banjo is fast and bulbous.


That's right.

Mar 15, 2019 - 5:15:51 AM

2251 posts since 2/16/2017
Online Now

As a trumpet player, I’ve always been a Kind of Blue Miles guy.

As a Dead fan, this is a lot like the Drums and Space section of Dead shows, which is when I go take a leak and grab another beer.

As a jazz fan, I’ve never been pots and pans guy. I like a melody in the mix. I keep wondering if my tastes will mature into it, and I’ll “get it” someday, but it ain’t happening yet.

Mar 15, 2019 - 5:46:25 AM

4783 posts since 11/13/2005

Do you still play trumpet Jeff? I've never tried any horns, but I would like to someday

Mar 15, 2019 - 5:58:04 AM

2251 posts since 2/16/2017
Online Now

I haven’t played regularly since my mid-twenties. I still play once in a while, but I’m not in shape. If you don’t play regularly your embouchure goes to crap. It’s really frustrating to not be able to play like I use to.

I have a mind to join one of the community concert bands around here eventually (I presume I’ll have free time again someday). I play French horn as well, and that’s probably what I’ll play once I join a band. Washed up trumpet players are a dime a dozen, but every band or orchestra could use another horn.

The free time that I have that I can spend on music right now, I spend on banjo.

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:07:21 AM
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5496 posts since 8/28/2013

quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo

FYI: certain profanity words are x'd out. If they get too raunchy, the poster may be given a warning about profanity and if that doesn't work, a time out. Check the rules, it says: "Profanity or Racial/Religious Slurs: Keep in mind that these forums are visited by people of all ages and backgrounds. Besides.. a foul mouth doesn't impress anyone."

While a mild curse word may not be x'd out, most are.


Would this particular "B" word be x-ed out if it had been used as its original definition meaning "female dog?"

Sometimes polite society can be too polite, and that can sometimes be offensive in itself. Personally, I would wish for my children to know the correct meanings of certain words. Another example of stupid PC tricks would be the word "A**," which originally was an animal designation, is used frequently in the Bible, and was one of the few "obscenities" that were not censored by the Hays office when used in motion pictures. 

Do what you feel, but please accept that there are words that should only be offensive to imbeciles with dirty minds. And please be aware that when referencing a song title or quoting a veterinary journal, some of these words are necessary and not intended to be offensive.

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:12:22 AM

csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014

quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle

As a trumpet player, I’ve always been a Kind of Blue Miles guy.

As a Dead fan, this is a lot like the Drums and Space section of Dead shows, which is when I go take a leak and grab another beer.

As a jazz fan, I’ve never been pots and pans guy. I like a melody in the mix. I keep wondering if my tastes will mature into it, and I’ll “get it” someday, but it ain’t happening yet.


I think some people are wired in such a way that this type of music clicks for them and others are not. It doesn't mean that some people are more intelligent or anything like that (Beefheart and Henry Kaiser fans often receive a lot of flak on the web from those who don't like this stuff and think thatthat t who do are snobs). Trout Mask Replica worked for me on my first listen, and after a couple more spins I had memorized every note. B****es Brew is the same way. 

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Coltrane's later work (A Love Supreme and what followed)? 

Also, for anybody interested, Henry Kaiser and Wadada Leo Smith re-made B****es Brew and some other tracks from Miles' electric phase on a couple of discs. The recording quality is incredible as is the musicianship... Definitely worth a listen.

Edited by - csacwp on 03/15/2019 07:14:47

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:22:44 AM

124 posts since 4/17/2011

(1) I LOVE this album. It's definitely horses for courses, though. Was controversial at the time and can still push buttons.

(2) I have a new instrumental jazz album out, and one of the songs (two versions of which are on the album) has the same B****** word in the title. So Amazon has labeled my album "explicit." My INSTRUMENTAL album. I love it :)

Edited by - BigFiveChord on 03/15/2019 07:23:06

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:23:15 AM
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bluenote23

Canada

1019 posts since 12/4/2012

I was a teenager when this came out and I remember sitting in the basement with my friend (we might have been slightly high, maybe on catnip!!) listening to my newly purchased double LP when my friend's older brother came upon us.

He was in his 20s and with furrowed brow said 'You only like this because you think it's cool'. In retrospect, he was right. I had no idea what was going on on that record and probably hardly ever played it after that.

But today, I find it brilliant. I think it still sounds modern and relevant today and with Jack Johnson and On The Corner represents a high point in Miles' long career. I have almost all of his recordings and though the older ballads are beautiful and heart wrenching, this stuff is something else...

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:25:20 AM

124 posts since 4/17/2011

Oh also Ryan Cavanaugh came through town a month or two ago with "Songs From the Road Band," they played the Miles Davis/Joe Zawinul composition "In a Silent Way." Was fun to hear it arranged for bluegrass band, I got the impression Ryan may have been the driving force behind that choice... He sounded GREAT.

Mar 15, 2019 - 7:54:05 AM

2251 posts since 2/16/2017
Online Now

quote:
Originally posted by csacwp
quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle

As a trumpet player, I’ve always been a Kind of Blue Miles guy.

As a Dead fan, this is a lot like the Drums and Space section of Dead shows, which is when I go take a leak and grab another beer.

As a jazz fan, I’ve never been pots and pans guy. I like a melody in the mix. I keep wondering if my tastes will mature into it, and I’ll “get it” someday, but it ain’t happening yet.


I think some people are wired in such a way that this type of music clicks for them and others are not. It doesn't mean that some people are more intelligent or anything like that (Beefheart and Henry Kaiser fans often receive a lot of flak on the web from those who don't like this stuff and think thatthat t who do are snobs). Trout Mask Replica worked for me on my first listen, and after a couple more spins I had memorized every note. B****es Brew is the same way. 

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Coltrane's later work (A Love Supreme and what followed)? 

Also, for anybody interested, Henry Kaiser and Wadada Leo Smith re-made B****es Brew and some other tracks from Miles' electric phase on a couple of discs. The recording quality is incredible as is the musicianship... Definitely worth a listen.


I love A love Supreme.  It’s the perfect kind of album for a rainy day, melancholy mood jazz album.  Coltrane starts to lose me after that, though.  Especially Ascension.  I find Ascension completely unlistenable.

 

I don’t know if this kind of thing will ever click with me, although my tastes have continually evolved, which is why I am open to the possibility of understanding it better and coming to like it someday.  It’s not limited to jazz for me. I am really not a fan of atonal/modernist composers either.  I keep waiting for me to get Stravinsky, or Schoenberg, Glass, etc.  Hasn’t happened yet…

 

You’re right, some people just enjoy this type of music more than others, and I would never say it’s an intelligence/snobbery issue.  Personally, I don’t care what others like or don’t like, but if someone says they don’t like something, I might ask them why that is.  If I think someone has written off an entire genre or artist without giving it a chance or being albe to justify their opinion...

 

I don’t know Capt Beefheart at all.  What would you recommend?

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:18:08 AM
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csacwp

USA

2099 posts since 1/15/2014

quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle
quote:
Originally posted by csacwp
quote:
Originally posted by FlyinEagle

As a trumpet player, I’ve always been a Kind of Blue Miles guy.

As a Dead fan, this is a lot like the Drums and Space section of Dead shows, which is when I go take a leak and grab another beer.

As a jazz fan, I’ve never been pots and pans guy. I like a melody in the mix. I keep wondering if my tastes will mature into it, and I’ll “get it” someday, but it ain’t happening yet.


I think some people are wired in such a way that this type of music clicks for them and others are not. It doesn't mean that some people are more intelligent or anything like that (Beefheart and Henry Kaiser fans often receive a lot of flak on the web from those who don't like this stuff and think thatthat t who do are snobs). Trout Mask Replica worked for me on my first listen, and after a couple more spins I had memorized every note. B****es Brew is the same way. 

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Coltrane's later work (A Love Supreme and what followed)? 

Also, for anybody interested, Henry Kaiser and Wadada Leo Smith re-made B****es Brew and some other tracks from Miles' electric phase on a couple of discs. The recording quality is incredible as is the musicianship... Definitely worth a listen.


I love A love Supreme.  It’s the perfect kind of album for a rainy day, melancholy mood jazz album.  Coltrane starts to lose me after that, though.  Especially Ascension.  I find Ascension completely unlistenable.

 

I don’t know if this kind of thing will ever click with me, although my tastes have continually evolved, which is why I am open to the possibility of understanding it better and coming to like it someday.  It’s not limited to jazz for me. I am really not a fan of atonal/modernist composers either.  I keep waiting for me to get Stravinsky, or Schoenberg, Glass, etc.  Hasn’t happened yet…

 

You’re right, some people just enjoy this type of music more than others, and I would never say it’s an intelligence/snobbery issue.  Personally, I don’t care what others like or don’t like, but if someone says they don’t like something, I might ask them why that is.  If I think someone has written off an entire genre or artist without giving it a chance or being albe to justify their opinion...

 

I don’t know Capt Beefheart at all.  What would you recommend?


Beefheart and the Magic Band's music went through a few different phases.

Their first album Safe As Milk (with Ry Cooder) is a good starting place. The following album Strictly Personal gets more out there and was in some people's opinions ruined by post-effects done after recording (and without the band's permission). If you want to hear the songs without the effects there is an album of demos called I May Be Hungry But I Sure Ain't Weird that is good. Strictly Personal will take you right back to 1968 though. Both it and Safe As Milk are electric delta blues with some psychedelic influence.

The next two albums (Trout Mask Replica and Lick My Decals Off Baby) are some of Beefheart's masterpieces. They are a unique blend of beat poetry, delta blues, rock, anthropological "field recordings", and avant garde jazz. On first listen it may sound random but it's not... The band spent 12+ hours a day for a year memorizing these compositions note for note while living in cult-like conditions and being physically/mentally abused and brainwashed by Beefheart. They knew all the tracks by heart and could perform them note for note. Trout Mask is amazing but Decals is the more refined and mature version of the same vision.

The next two albums (Spotlight Kid and Clear Spot) move in a more commercial direction but are still weird enough to remain interesting. Clear Spot is a masterpiece.

Ignore the next two albums and then listen to Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) and Doc at the Radar Station. Doc is another one of the Captain's best albums.

Also, be sure to listen to Trout Mask, Decals, and Doc a few times before casting judgement. If it's going to click it likely won't happen immediately. The first track of Trout Mask is the most inaccessible and often loses people right away.

At the very least, these albums will make you rethink a bunch of different musical concepts, and most people seem to enjoy Clear Spot a lot even if they dislike the other albums.

Edited by - csacwp on 03/15/2019 08:31:36

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:38:59 AM

2251 posts since 2/16/2017
Online Now

 

Also, be sure to listen to Trout Mask, Decals, and Doc a few times before casting judgement. If it's going to click it likely won't happen immediately. The first track of Trout Mask is the most inaccessible and often loses people right away.

At the very least, these albums will make you rethink a bunch of different musical concepts, and most people seem to enjoy Clear Spot a lot even if they dislike the other albums.


Ok, I’m going to start where you say, Safe as Milk.  Listening to it now.

 

This cracks me up…1st track on the album slams the door shut.

Mar 15, 2019 - 8:45:27 AM
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433 posts since 9/6/2014

Hey David, nice thread! This is epic.

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