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May 16, 2018 - 3:49:14 PM
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4550 posts since 5/8/2014

The situation in Hawaii is certainly unfortunate, but . . .

If you build on the slopes of an active volcano . . .

Or on a floodplain . . .

 . . .  ?

May 16, 2018 - 4:13:46 PM
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rinemb Players Union Member

USA

10063 posts since 5/24/2005

Man vs Nature...in the end, we usually lose. Just a matter of time. Brad

May 16, 2018 - 4:16:27 PM

raybob

USA

12970 posts since 12/11/2003

I have a magnificent view of Mt. Shasta from my place. The only thing I would trade it for is a place on the beach. Both situations are risky out here; volcanic eruptions and tsunamis following earthquakes (see Cascadia subduction zone). Back east it was tornadoes, it's always something don't you know.

I experienced the big quake in '89 in SF when some of the bridges etc fell down. I just don't know how frightened I should be about these things. So I've decided not to be frightened at all. Some of my neighbors spent thousands getting their homes outfitted electrically for the chaos that was supposed to follow Y2K. I sat drinking beer with friends and watched the ball in Times Square fall waiting for the world to end any second. We're still here, and those generators were never fired up.

May 16, 2018 - 5:20:15 PM

47603 posts since 12/14/2005

Now, let's fire up those banjos and SING ALONG with Dino!

===============================

Everybody dies of something sometime.

Everybody shuffles off the coil.

Something on the news is hinting

You might get crushed, or choke, or broil!

====================================

So, do what good you can, have what fun you may, share what joy you might.

As they told me a few months before I dropped out of Lutheran Hospital School of Nursing:

"We are all just four minutes away from being oxygen deprived, brain damaged, and basically unable to live unassisted."


May 16, 2018 - 5:24:17 PM

4550 posts since 5/8/2014

quote:
Originally posted by rinemb

Man vs Nature...in the end, we usually lose. Just a matter of time. Brad


Yeah—dredging and canalizing rivers, for example, simply moves the flooding downstream so that it becomes someone else’s problem.  

A civil engineer I knew long ago said, “A river is a living thing.  If you kick it, it kicks you back—later.”

I remember the flooding in Kansas City in 1993.  I watched some of it from my back doorstep on Buchanan Street in North Kansas City.

May 16, 2018 - 5:52:45 PM

7589 posts since 2/22/2007

Russ, you can say that about most any place. Why did they build in tornado alley? Where they are subject to brush fires? Floods? Earthquakes? Why would anyone live where there is big city crime? High incidence of lightening strikes?
As Rosanna Rosanna Dana said "it's always something!".

May 16, 2018 - 6:24:49 PM

dr4dpet

USA

427 posts since 2/9/2016

An additional downside for the folks in Hawaii, as opposed to those losing property due to flood or fire, for many of them the property reverts to the state once covered by the lava.

May 16, 2018 - 8:25:16 PM

Paul R

Canada

10218 posts since 1/28/2010

I grew up in Montreal, home of Mount Royal, an extinct volcano. Nothing happened - except when the FLQ blew up mailboxes., but life went on; people went about their usual routines.

There have been no floods or tornadoes where I've lived. We often left the door unlocked at night in Toronto. No break-ins, never threatened or robbed at gunpoint.

Still, I'd factor in those things - active volcano, floodplain, zombies, stuff like that, before I'd think of living there.

May 17, 2018 - 4:36:27 AM

tmercks

USA

562 posts since 3/7/2006

Fragility in life is a factor we often choose to ignore.
As the bible says; if we don't build on the solid rock, all other lands are just shifting sands.
Have a great day.

May 17, 2018 - 5:40:02 AM

Buddur

USA

2490 posts since 10/23/2004

Yep! It's not a matter of "If?"....it's a matter of "When?".

But, people have to live somewhere. And both those locations sure can be a purdy place to live....dangerous, but purdy.

May 17, 2018 - 5:42:19 AM

KE

Malta

22175 posts since 6/30/2006
Online Now

Aren't volcanic mountains basically solid rock?

May 17, 2018 - 5:58:46 AM
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rinemb Players Union Member

USA

10063 posts since 5/24/2005

While I know KE knows this, here is volcano geology 101 and earlier:

First segment-how a volcano erupts and forms mountains, second segment-how to make a volcano (kids love this,  I used to do this is guest teachering), third segment-the three types of volcanos, active, dormant, extinct.

 

May 17, 2018 - 6:24:34 AM
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rinemb Players Union Member

USA

10063 posts since 5/24/2005

This is the scariest one to me, as far as chance of failure, due to time or a big big event.  The Old River Control Project that diverts the path of the mighty Mississippi River in Louisiana.  If there is catastrophic failure the entire Atchafalaya flood plain is under water for a while along with a lot of folks.  Let alone the change in commerce and lifestyles etc on/near Mississippi River below and out to the Gulf.  Man will lose this one eventually! IMO, Brad  (read John McPhee's book "The Control of Nature")

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/environment/article_d5a29f26-06a9-11e8-abde-8b9660c81021.html

May 17, 2018 - 6:51:08 AM

Tobus

USA

1264 posts since 11/17/2015

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Russ, you can say that about most any place. Why did they build in tornado alley? Where they are subject to brush fires? Floods? Earthquakes? Why would anyone live where there is big city crime? High incidence of lightening strikes?
As Rosanna Rosanna Dana said "it's always something!".


'Zactly!  Show me any place on Earth, and I'll show you how nature can kill you and destroy your home.  None of us live in a safe place.  Safety is an illusion.

That said, it IS tempting fate to build a home near an active volcano.  It's not "if", but "when".

May 17, 2018 - 8:11:56 AM

1111 posts since 2/16/2017

Or how about all of the lovely beach homes built on barrier islands?

 

You know, the thin strips of sandy shoals that take the brunt of the oceans wrath and that by their very nature are dynamic, not permanent enough to build on long term? 

 

Yeah, let’s build on those and see how to goes…

May 17, 2018 - 8:24:53 AM

Owen

Canada

1999 posts since 6/5/2011

Tobin, are you talkin' absolute safety, or relative safety?   I consider Russell, MB. a safe place... off the top of my head I'd say the biggest natural risks come from a big blizzard every few decades or so, or a much less frequent tornado or damaging lightning strike.   Having said that, my impression is that our weather is more variable than it used to be... so hope I haven't spoken too soon.    wink

May 17, 2018 - 10:12:49 AM
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1111 posts since 2/16/2017

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44159856

There's been an explosive eruption.

May 17, 2018 - 10:24:05 AM

13390 posts since 12/2/2005

quote:
Originally posted by rinemb

 (read John McPhee's book "The Control of Nature")

 


I was just about to suggest this book and I see Brad beat me to it.

For those unfamiliar, McPhee publishes nearly all his stuff first in The New Yorker magazine, then publishes it in book form. The Control of Nature contains three of his New Yorker pieces. The first, called Atchafalaya, discusses Old River Control as Brad notes. When Katrina happened in New Orleans, I thought back on that story and thought to myself "well, of course. Exactly as McPhee said it would happen."

The second piece, apropos of this thread, is called "Cooling the Lava." It details an island of the south coast of Iceland that saw the emergence of a new volcano, which came very close to closing off its harbor; residents were (barely) able to keep that from happening by continually pumping cold sea water on the lava as it emerged. The third piece, "Los Angeles vs. The Mountains," tells you everything you need to know about why southern California is so prone to wildfires and subsequent landslides and debris flows. Read that, and next time it happens, you'll say to yourself "well, of course. Exactly as McPhee said...."

These aren't just fascinating stories. They're magnificently written (all of McPhee's stuff is) and as gripping as the best fiction. Only they're meticulously researched and true as an arrow.

This book is a wonderful read. One of my handful of desert-island books.

May 17, 2018 - 2:21:26 PM

4550 posts since 5/8/2014

quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by rinemb

 (read John McPhee's book "The Control of Nature")

 


I was just about to suggest this book and I see Brad beat me to it.

For those unfamiliar, McPhee publishes nearly all his stuff first in The New Yorker magazine, then publishes it in book form. The Control of Nature contains three of his New Yorker pieces. The first, called Atchafalaya, discusses Old River Control as Brad notes. When Katrina happened in New Orleans, I thought back on that story and thought to myself "well, of course. Exactly as McPhee said it would happen."

The second piece, apropos of this thread, is called "Cooling the Lava." It details an island of the south coast of Iceland that saw the emergence of a new volcano, which came very close to closing off its harbor; residents were (barely) able to keep that from happening by continually pumping cold sea water on the lava as it emerged. The third piece, "Los Angeles vs. The Mountains," tells you everything you need to know about why southern California is so prone to wildfires and subsequent landslides and debris flows. Read that, and next time it happens, you'll say to yourself "well, of course. Exactly as McPhee said...."

These aren't just fascinating stories. They're magnificently written (all of McPhee's stuff is) and as gripping as the best fiction. Only they're meticulously researched and true as an arrow.

This book is a wonderful read. One of my handful of desert-island books.


Thanks to both Brad and Skip—I’ll be looking for a copy!

May 17, 2018 - 2:37:19 PM

4550 posts since 5/8/2014

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Russ, you can say that about most any place. Why did they build in tornado alley? Where they are subject to brush fires? Floods? Earthquakes? Why would anyone live where there is big city crime? High incidence of lightening strikes?

 . . .


I guess I should have made my comments more specific, perhaps on the close order of:

”If you build on the flank of an active volcano, don’t come to me wailing and moaning when the damned thing erupts.”

”If you build on the floodplain, don’t come to me wailing and moaning when the river rises.”

One of my vivid memories as a teenager (we lived in northwest Sacramento, behind levees) was sandbagging near the convergence of the Sacramento and American Rivers—middle ‘60s, I think.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

May 17, 2018 - 3:51:57 PM

13403 posts since 8/14/2003

Well, when the Yellowstone super caldron goes, its gonna change a lot of things.. Lets not forget The San Andreas also.. Some parts of yellow stone are raised a bunch of feet over the last few years... )more in Brads line)

May 17, 2018 - 4:58:42 PM

Brian T

Canada

13730 posts since 6/5/2008

Those things remind me of the 'Chaos Theory' predictions made by Ian Malcolm in Crichton's book: Jurassic Park.
Event unfolded as he had predicted. Very disconnected in the film.

May 17, 2018 - 6:20:06 PM

13390 posts since 12/2/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Rawhide Creek

Thanks to both Brad and Skip—I’ll be looking for a copy!


Caution: once you start with McPhee, it's hard to stop. Some of his books are more accessible than others - he's fascinated by geology and some of his books, such as Assembling California and Basin and Range, can get a bit wonky. As can some of his more obscure topics, such as The Ransom of Russian Art.

But mostly, it's just amazing stuff. Start with Control of Nature. Maybe try Coming Into the Country next. Then Looking For a Ship. Of his most recent books, I really like Uncommon Carriers - one or two of the stories didn't do much for me, but there's a lot of wonderful stuff in it, not least of which is a piece focusing on UPS that'll leave you gobsmacked. Did you know UPS actually makes Louisville Sluggers?

Oh, and while we're on the topic, you should get Up In the Old Hotel by Joseph Mitchell, who was also a writer for The New Yorker and essentially created the genre of literary non-fiction. That book is a collection of all his features from the magazine. McPhee is, arguably, his heir.

May 17, 2018 - 8:31:43 PM

13 posts since 4/28/2018

The type of lava that is flowing out of the volcano is mafic to ultramafic (iron and silica rich) which means that it doesn't trap gas (and therefore won't explode) like the the andesite and dacite of Mt St Helens or Rhyolite of Yellowstone. The ash which is coming out of the volcano is from gas which is trapped deep down in the magma chamber expanding once it reaches the surface, like the bubbles which form on a nice head of beer. The other main explosive interaction is when magma hits the water table, which can cause steam explosions. Lava flows like the ones happening now are the reason why the Big Island exists in the first place. This lava has a similar consistency to concrete and flows like it too--except being 2000 C The danger with felsic (silica rich) magma like mt st helens is that the gas has no way to escape, and builds up pressure over time. With Kilauea the gas is released immediately and isn't able to build up to extremely dangerous levels.

May 17, 2018 - 8:42:47 PM
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13 posts since 4/28/2018

Also, if any of you are interested in the geologic history of the US, John McPhee's book "Basin and Range" is one of the things which got me interested in studying geology. Basin and Range extension is also the reason why we have Nevada, so there was a point in time before that where we were significantly better off in North America.  

(that's a joke)

Edited by - shoshone on 05/17/2018 20:43:10

May 18, 2018 - 7:01:23 AM

66593 posts since 5/9/2007

No volcanoes,earthquakes of any damge or flooding in Port Clyde,but winter is a challenge.

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