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Feb 6, 2018 - 7:23:29 PM
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2232 posts since 2/18/2009

I am doing another banjo giveaway which I have been told is scheduled to start on February 13th.  This time the banjo will be a 12" walnut internal resonator banjo with one of my shop-made Whyte Laydie type tone rings and brass hardware.  Last January I did a series here and also posted on my website on the construction of a 12" cherry banjo, detailing as many of the steps as possible and showing pictures.  This time I am planning to mainly address the aspects of this banjo that are different from the last one, rather than duplicating the explanations of the steps that are the same.  The old topic is archived now, but if anyone should want to see the steps I am skipping in this journal the link is:

https://www.banjohangout.org/archive/326835

I started by taking a piece of walnut and cutting three neck layers out of it.  The walnut is 3/4" thick.  I paid attention to the grain orientation since I wanted the grain lines to radiate out through the neck roughly equally.  This makes the visible grain lines of the finished neck more consistently spaced.  One thing I like about 3 piece necks is that they enable the use of a square socket for the dowel stick.   As you can see in the picture all I did was to cut a rectangular section out of the heel of the middle piece.  The cutout is angled close to 3 degrees to match the heel cut which is made later.

P2060002 (1).jpg

I applied glue to both sides of the center piece and glued the three together.  I used a chisel to scrape out the glue that was squeezed into the dowel stick pocket.

P2060003 (1).jpg

In the background of this picture you can see the strips that will become the rims.  I cut them and glued them as shown last time, and hung them up.  I only have 6 band clamps so the last one had to wait.

P2060004 (1).jpg

I have 4 layers for the inner rim and 3 for the outer, since the tone ring is tall enough to eliminate a layer of blocks.   I got to work on the neck once it was dry and did all the usual neck things to it, as shown previously.  One great convenience of the square truss rod hole is that I can put a skinny clamp into it and use it to hold the neck in place while cutting the truss rod pocket and later the tension hoop ledge.  I'll post again as soon as there's more to show.  I've got a couple of other custom banjos I'm working on at the same time, so progress may be a bit slow.

 

P2060009 (1).jpg

Feb 7, 2018 - 7:47:32 AM

5017 posts since 12/20/2005

Zach, that is cool. Looking forward to seeing more of this.

Feb 7, 2018 - 8:16:06 AM

2324 posts since 6/19/2008

Excellent.  I've always been intrigued by internal resonator banjos, but I've never built one.  I'm looking forward to seeing how you do it.

Feb 7, 2018 - 9:33:27 AM
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Ken LeVan Players Union Member

USA

10776 posts since 6/29/2005

Great idea, Zach.  I recently made two variants of the Bacon style for a 14" banjo guitar and it really changed the sound.

Have you read David Politzer's paper on the Bacon ones? http://www.its.caltech.edu/~politzer/bacon/internal-res.pdf

Feb 7, 2018 - 9:54:58 AM

6650 posts since 1/7/2005

Looking forward to the series Zach. It's always enjoyable to get a look at how others work.

DD

Feb 7, 2018 - 9:21:10 PM

HarleyQ

USA

2802 posts since 1/31/2005

Good job Zach!

Hoytsmiley

Feb 8, 2018 - 2:39:06 AM

flatline

Belgium

90 posts since 10/17/2017

I read your previous built series entirely ; a very interesting approach.
F.

Feb 8, 2018 - 5:39:02 AM
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lab_dad Players Union Member

USA

148 posts since 5/14/2004

And he is giving it away?

Great thread Zack!

-Martin

Feb 8, 2018 - 7:58:38 AM
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5017 posts since 12/20/2005

Zach is just a good person. Never heard anyone say otherwise.

He has done a couple of projects for me. Each turned out great.

Feb 8, 2018 - 7:29:05 PM

2232 posts since 2/18/2009

Here's tonight's update, showing some of my odd methods and some more normal ones, perhaps.  I have the deepest respect for David Politzer and his research, and I think it's great that we have a real scientist in the banjo community to sort things out.  My knowledge and understanding of the science of physics is regrettably small.  I have a nodding acquaintance with the modulus of elasticity, but everything more complex than that has passed right through my head and left not a wrack behind, so I tend to work more by the system of trying to think of an idea, seeing if it seems to work the first time and if so, doing it again.  

Zach

 

Yesterday I sanded the 7 rings flat and glued them into stacks, and last night I rolled the tone ring parts and the tension hoop.  The ring roller is new to me last fall, prior to that I bent tension hoops by hand.  It's fun to use, as it takes a job that required a lot of effort and was inexact and makes it effortless and precise.  I buy brass in 7 foot lengths, and each length will do two 11 or 12 inch banjos without too much waste.  The ring roller does the whole bend in one pass, so it is quite fast.  I have a plan to make it so that I know exactly where to set the roller for each type of product, but I haven't gotten it done yet so for now I eyeball it.  The scalloped truss is made from 3/16x5/8" brass.P2070011.jpgP2070012 (1).jpg

The top hoop is 1/4" round brass.  

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

There are little spots in the rollers for the round brass to ride in.

P2070014.jpg

The tension hoop is 1/8x1/2" brass, and here they all are together

P2070015.jpg

I used the bandsaw to cut the unbent end off each piece and then used my handy list of measurements to find the correct length.  I have a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate that I use for gluing and soldering and other odd jobs.  The brass turns red when it's just about ready for the solder.

P2070016.jpg

Today I used a sewing tape on the inside of the scalloped truss to mark the high points, and then used a plastic lid to draw a nice arc between them.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Then I used the bandsaw to roughly cut the scallops.  I wear a welding glove on my left hand since that side can get a little warm as each cut comes off the blade.  That hand is behind the blade so it is relatively less unsafe to wear a glove on that hand.   I am not suggesting that anyone try this at home, as they say.

P2080023.jpg

Then I used the spindle sander first with coarse and then with fine grits to clean up the bandsaw cuts, and used the fine drum on the inside and outside of the ring.

P2080027.jpg

Then I put the rim blank on the aluminum faceplate and turned it, and fitted the tone ring to the rim.

P2080030.jpgP2080031.jpg

Then I mounted the inner rim on an old particle board faceplate and turned the face and the inside only.  I use the ruler to see when the inside of the rim is straight and parallel with the tubes of the Shopsmith bed.  I have to move my head to see both parts of the yardstick, so the camera can only see part of the job at a time.

P2080032 (1).jpg

My last step for now was to mark the outer rim at the point where the centerline of the neck and the tailpiece will be, and install blocks in those places.  I used the sander to match the outside of the blocks to the rim and to put a shallow angle on the inside of the blocks. The reason for will become clear tomorrow when the inner rim goes in.  

P2080034.jpg

Edited by - Zachary Hoyt on 02/08/2018 19:29:54

Feb 9, 2018 - 7:16:44 PM

2232 posts since 2/18/2009

Tonight I didn't work long on the pot and then I had to let the glue dry.  First I set the outer rim on top of the inner rim and used a mini tape measure to get it as perfectly centered as I could, and then drew around the blocks and laid out the cut line.

P2090001.jpg

Then I took it to the bandsaw and cut away most of the inner rim, leaving just over 1/4" of wood except where the ears are that join the outer blocks.  When cut the inner rim can be set inside the outer one and rotated into place.  I thought of this method back when I made my first IR rim as a way to get the glue onto the surfaces and not have it be scraped off during assembly.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Bottom view:

P2090003.jpg

I trimmed the edges of the ears the last bit with the bandsaw and then marked the excess height of the ears above the blocks and trimmed it off with a router, carefully.  

P2090004.jpg

Then I used the 1" belt sander to smooth off the outside of the inner rim and put glue on the mating surfaces of the blocks and ears and put the rims together.  I checked them carefully against the aluminum plate and then with a straightedge.  

P2090005.jpg

Once the excess glue became rubbery I cleaned it off the joints with a chisel and set the assembly aside overnight.  Tomorrow I will put the back on.

Feb 12, 2018 - 5:40:21 PM
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2232 posts since 2/18/2009

I didn't get back to work on this on Saturday as I had intended, but here's what I had thought I would do then:

Tonight I cut the fret slots using an adapted Worx mini saw with a .023" blade, and a homemade fixture.  I've been using this setup for about a year.  It's faster than slotting by hand and also enables me to make partial slots in the area of the scoop, so that there is no unfilled bit of slot showing after the frets go in.  

P2120011.jpg

I had to cut the first slot twice since the first time it wasn't quite deep enough, so that is why that slot looks slightly wider than the others.  

P2120012.jpg

The rest of the fretting process I use is still the same as last year' journal shows.  I moved on to the resonator back and started by trying to find something that looked right in my walnut boxes.  I found a piece that had a very mild curl and some color streaks and marked out two quarters, by first drawing around the inner and outer rims and then using a framing square to make a 90 degree angle between the ends at 6" on both sides of the square.  

P2120013.jpg

I did some of the cutting out on the bandsaw and used the scroll saw for the inner parts so as not to waste any of the rest of the board.  With a 10 TPI blade it cuts pretty fast, though of course not like the bandsaw.  I cut a bit outside the marks to leave some margin for alignment.  Then I put the rip fence on the bandsaw and sliced each piece in half, so I could bookmatch the two sides of the resonator back.  I really like having the rip fence on this bandsaw, it's self-aligning and as long as I remember to keep my feed speed down and use a sharp blade I can get quite accurate cuts.  

P2120015.jpg

Then I drew a centerline along the pot back, after ensuring it was flat on the 12" sanding disc on the Shopsmith.  I used the disc sander also to true up the ends of the back pieces and fine tune them till they fit tightly together all the way around.   This required several trips back and forth from the sander to the pot till it all looked right.  

P2120016.jpg

I made sure the back overhung the sides all the way around and then began applying glue and clamps.  When I got done it looked like this:

P2120017.jpg

Feb 12, 2018 - 10:42:34 PM
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flatline

Belgium

90 posts since 10/17/2017

quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

Tonight I didn't work long on the pot and then I had to let the glue dry.  First I set the outer rim on top of the inner rim and used a mini tape measure to get it as perfectly centered as I could, and then drew around the blocks and laid out the cut line.

P2090001.jpg

Then I took it to the bandsaw and cut away most of the inner rim, leaving just over 1/4" of wood except where the ears are that join the outer blocks.  When cut the inner rim can be set inside the outer one and rotated into place.  I thought of this method back when I made my first IR rim as a way to get the glue onto the surfaces and not have it be scraped off during assembly.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Bottom view:

P2090003.jpg


"tapered fitting" is not the right description, but this is a cunning plan to align them very exact." 

Feb 13, 2018 - 5:40:59 AM

1251 posts since 2/16/2017

Just spotted this thread last night. Very cool. I'll be following along.

Thank you for posting, Zachary!

Edited by - FlyinEagle on 02/13/2018 05:46:31

Feb 18, 2018 - 12:30:36 PM
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2232 posts since 2/18/2009

On Tuesday I sanded the back of the resonator flat on the 12" disc sander and then used the table router to put a 1/4" radius on the corners.

P2130020.jpg

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

On Thursday I drilled a 3/4 hole for the dowel stick using the Shopsmith.

P2150023.jpg

I carved the hole out to a square shape using a 1/2" chisel and a mallet, but I didn't get any pictures of that.  On Friday I sanded the outside with the random orbit sander and the inside with the oscillating spindle sander.

P2170028.jpg

I also used the Shopsmith to drill the endbolt hole which can be seen in this picture.  I use extra long 10-24 hanger bolts with a standard endbolt knob, or whatever that round part is properly called.  It's a lot easier than making a square blind hole into the inside of the tailblock and using a normal length hanger bolt, and the end result is equally good, as far as I can tell.  This morning I hand sanded the rim, neck and armrest to 400 grit and right after lunch I put on the first coat of Tru Oil.  

P2180030.jpg

I'll be getting it all put together on Tuesday or Wednesday if all goes according to plan, and I'll post some pictures and a quick video of the completed banjo as soon as it's all ready.  

Feb 18, 2018 - 1:15:09 PM
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4333 posts since 9/7/2009

Some fine looking craftsmanship Zach!

Feb 18, 2018 - 6:37:17 PM
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2232 posts since 2/18/2009

BNJOMAKR, that's very kind of you. I have never attained to anything like the level of detail on your banjos, they're very impressive.
Zach

Feb 18, 2018 - 11:27:31 PM

flatline

Belgium

90 posts since 10/17/2017

Great work, Zach,
and I love the way you used the grain.
F

Feb 19, 2018 - 4:57:26 AM

DC5 Players Union Member

USA

1123 posts since 6/30/2015

Awesome job Zach. I hope no one else enters the drawing, that would look real nice in my living room.

Feb 21, 2018 - 7:08:47 PM
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2232 posts since 2/18/2009

I put 5 coats of Tru Oil finish on the banjo on Sunday and put it together today.  

P2210004.jpg

It has a curly walnut peghead overlay and the fretboard is streaky ebony.  It's a bit hard to see the streaks in the pictures.  I like scoops better now that I have the power fretting saw set up so I don't have those annoying little bits of fret slot showing on the partial frets.

P2210005.jpgOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

The bottom of the tone ring is visible under the flesh hoop of the head.OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

I recently went to using screws to fasten the brass plates rather than double sided tape, but the screws are so short that I have a hard time holding onto them to get them started.

P2210008.jpg

Now that the finishing is done the bookmatched resonator back is more apparent.

P2210011.jpg

P2210009.jpg

P2210010.jpg

The armrest is of the type pioneered by Jason Romero, though not as nicely made as his, I am sure.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

I made a quick video demonstration of this banjo after I got it set up tonight.  I moved my right hand up and down a bit to try to show some of the range of sounds that this banjo can make.  I hope that perhaps someone will come by before the drawing who can really play and will let me make a video of them playing this banjo, but we don't get a lot of visitors this time of year.  

https://youtu.be/-kiKxD91bKg

Edited by - Zachary Hoyt on 02/21/2018 19:11:06

Feb 21, 2018 - 7:22:17 PM

6650 posts since 1/7/2005

It's a handsome banjo Zach. Just enough fanciness to set off that nice walnut, but not overpower it. Workmanship looks impeccable.
It has a pretty voice. A bit like a zither banjo. Maybe added overtones from the hollow rim assembly give it that complex sound.

DD

Feb 21, 2018 - 11:48:41 PM

flatline

Belgium

90 posts since 10/17/2017

I'm astonished by the pure and simple looking approach,
resulting in clear and beautiful lines; that walnut is great.
Dan refers to a zither banjo; the sound certainly is affected by the internal resonator.
I would say : "a mellow voice".
F.

Feb 22, 2018 - 2:14:06 AM

hardleydavidson

United Kingdom

166 posts since 2/16/2017

That is gorgeous, lovely design and the craftsmanship looks amazing

Feb 22, 2018 - 3:37:56 AM

Davidprat

Spain

1056 posts since 8/10/2005

Love it !!! What a nice banjo !

Feb 22, 2018 - 3:55:33 AM

352 posts since 4/13/2011

Beautiful Banjo. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Feb 22, 2018 - 6:29:50 AM

2232 posts since 2/18/2009

Thank you all very much. I had not made a banjo with both the internal resonator and the Whyte Laydie-ish tone ring before, so I didn't know what it would sound like. Usually it's not till someone who can really play comes that I learn how it sounds when it's capacity is fully used.
Zach

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