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Arctic Death Spiral - A Long Argument

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Jun 11, 2016 - 6:37:13 PM
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Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

The real effects are coming out worse then the models so far.

Edited by - Drivel on 09/16/2016 00:53:58

Jun 11, 2016 - 8:04:07 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

Did you even watch your own clip, Drival ?  have a look around 4.46.    .".Ice will be completely gone by 2015" ......You do realize it's now 2016 right ?  

  If you are really interested in studying the subject,  have a look at the current Arctic ice extent data.  Oh.... and check out the Antarctic data while you're at it.   The ice is doing what it has always done ...it comes ..it goes...depending on the natural cycles of the earth.   BTW. most of that coverage on that clip, of the glacier collapsing is from a documentary I've watched several times, it was nothing to do with GW, it was about the study of ice bergs.  And,  Incidentally they found no increase of the phenomena.

Jun 11, 2016 - 8:07:31 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

It's like ........


 

Jun 11, 2016 - 8:36:48 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

We had a nasty...... DEATH SPIRAL...... here in little old New Zealand.       It was,  in earth years,  equal to about one of your heart beats ago.   So that's about 10,000 years to you and me.

There was massive glaciers all over the South part of our South Island.  We call it  Fiordland.  If you look at the bottom left side of that map, you will see the results of OUR DEATH SPIRAL.....beauiful green temperate valleys, with ocean and lakes.  If you look at the top right of the map, you can see the river valleys that have been  flooded by the melting ice.  We call that the Marlborough Sounds.

These of course are not unique to NZ, they can be found all over the world. 






Edited by - nakigreengrass on 06/11/2016 20:45:26

Jun 11, 2016 - 10:33:45 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

Just in case you cant be bothered to check out reality,    and because it's easy for me, cause it's all my PC, I've put the latest stuff up for you.

  Check it out it's all within a natural  range, of what you would expect in the years around the time of a big El Nino......It doesn't really look like a   D E A T H    S P I R A L ....to me.      But...... if you are still worried there's going to be a ........ D E A  T  H    S P I R A L.......just keep in mind, we are now entering the La Nina phase of the cycle...so you should be sweet.

 

Drivels clip is another good example of nonsense....got anymore ? this is fun.






Jun 12, 2016 - 4:19:40 AM

Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

Longer version.

 

Jun 12, 2016 - 4:29:10 AM

Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

An even longer but different one.  On a side note, they have recently determined that the Bermuda Triangle, was caused by methane hydrate.

 

Jun 12, 2016 - 4:38:30 AM

Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

A little thing.

 

Jun 12, 2016 - 1:31:06 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Drivel
 

A little thing.

 


 

Thats...more nonsense....Check out all the Auckland university studies on this subject.  The islands have actually shown growth over the studies.   The atolls are suffering from overpopulation and local pollution, which has caused some bad effects.   Depletion of sand is caused by the reduction of parrot fish, ( people keep eating them )  salt water ingress is caused by removing the fresh water lenses, by deforestation and agriculture.   Fresh water is lighter than sea water, so it keeps sea water from rising up though the low lying islands.  Take the fresh water out of the ground, it gets replaced by salt water. (  Same thing's happening in Miami )   Corral grows at about 100 mm a year, so not a problem.      Sea level rise is depended on El Nino, trade wind variations.  Not GW.   You can not make salt water more acidic by adding CO2,  you can only make it less alkaline.  When you add salt ( acid )  to water ( H2O )  it forms an alkaline solution.

Have I left anything out ?.    Everything I've stated can be easily found online, in a myriad of study papers.......why don't you read some research on these things before you post that nonsense?

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 06/12/2016 13:36:45

Jun 12, 2016 - 1:54:53 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

 Drivel...you do realized the more you do this,  the more shaky ground you beliefs will stand. And remember other people are reading this, you may be inadvertently turning people away from your beliefs.  Sometimes it's just better to shut up.

It is very much like discussing evolution with a faithful person. The bits of the evolution puzzle have slowly formed to erode their view....and so it is with....this subject.

 For the last year or two, almost every study,  from dozens of different scientific disciplines ( other than climatology ) has thrown doubt on the IPCC version of AGW.    All the visible " signs " of GW can be explained by the study of those subjects. 

Even the IPCC predictions have shown, over the years to have be wildly over estimated.  They are now, this week," more wrong"  than they were 3 weeks ago.    You will not find evidence of what you seek, it is just not there.

Jun 12, 2016 - 2:29:26 PM

6430 posts since 7/24/2013

"Just in case you can't be bothered to check out reality"



"Why don't you do some research on these things before you post that nonsense"



For a guy who complains ad nauseam about people attacking him, you seem to enjoy attacking people 👍


Jun 12, 2016 - 2:32:39 PM
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5709 posts since 3/13/2010

So there was no more ice last year?

Jun 12, 2016 - 2:43:37 PM
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nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by South Jersey Mike

 

For a guy who complains ad nauseam about people attacking him, you seem to enjoy attacking people 👍

 

I'm not attacking Drivel..I'm attacking the nonsense he keeps putting up.

 Him and I, may well see a lot of other issues eye to eye, so it's not the man, it's this issue.

BTW.   I will leave the job of personal attacks,  to people that are really good at it.....anybody come to mind ?

Jun 12, 2016 - 2:50:20 PM

6430 posts since 7/24/2013

quote:
Originally posted by nakigreengrass
 
quote:
Originally posted by South Jersey Mike

 

For a guy who complains ad nauseam about people attacking him, you seem to enjoy attacking people 👍

 

I'm not attacking Drivel..I'm attacking the nonsense he keeps putting up.

 Him and I, may well see a lot of other issues eye to eye, so it's not the man, it's this issue.

BTW.   I will leave the job of personal attacks,  to people that are really good at it.....anybody come to mind ?


You.

Jun 12, 2016 - 2:55:45 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by South Jersey Mike
 
 

You.


I'm completely comfortable with letting readers decide what is true and what is not.  

Jun 12, 2016 - 3:54:28 PM

6430 posts since 7/24/2013

quote:

Originally posted by Constitutional Peasant

 

So there was no more ice last year?







No, Ice still exists :) 



If the question is was there more ice last year, then that would depend on who you ask. However, I'm going to accept the study at NASA.org to be accurate in the name of expedience. So, there was more ice last year because of the Antarctic snowfall over the past decades. I'm also going to accept the entire study which says that the Antarctic gains won't be enough to keep up with the losses in other Arctic regions and that the Earth is heading toward a net loss on ice coverage.



The study taken in its entirety has a slightly different meaning than is often presented. In my humble opinion.


Jun 12, 2016 - 3:54:45 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

OK.......more info why atolls are having problems.....I put this link on the other current  CC thread.  If you look at the data it shows there is no link between the sea surface temperature in Northern Australia and sea level rise.  ( it actually drops when the sea gets warmer )...because...

 What it does show is the effect of El Nino on the DROP of the sea level.  So when the trade winds SLOWS, in El Nino years,  it warms the sea surface though the equatorial regions   ( think blowing on your coffee to cool it )  and DOES NOT push the sea level to the West.....This happens throughout the tropical Pacific, and to a smaller degree in other oceans around the world.  .http://www.bom.gov.au/ntc/IDO60201/IDO60201.201603.pdf.     Also...Check out Kelvin Wave.......During the La Nina phase the opposite occurs.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 06/12/2016 15:58:09

Jun 12, 2016 - 4:31:32 PM
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Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

Paul,

I moved over here to try to leave you alone.

In the Big Picture, El Nino, and the gamma ray study you are going on about are just a couple of leaves on a bush kind of off to the side.

If your being contrary to try to raise awareness to save New Zealand.  I'm sorry it may very well be to late.  

All I can say is move to high ground.  Pasture land is good.   A lot of food can be grown in used, shipping containers, and they can be moved.  Look into desalinization, rain fall runoff may become unreliable.

Edited by - Drivel on 06/12/2016 16:40:26

Jun 12, 2016 - 5:50:22 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Drivel
 

Paul,

I moved over here to try to leave you alone.

In the Big Picture, El Nino, and the gamma ray study you are going on about are just a couple of leaves on a bush kind of off to the side.

If your being contrary to try to raise awareness to save New Zealand.  I'm sorry it may very well be to late.  

All I can say is move to high ground.  Pasture land is good.   A lot of food can be grown in used, shipping containers, and they can be moved.  Look into desalinization, rain fall runoff may become unreliable.


And I thought you moved over here to get away from the things I was telling you, and you didn't want to hear what I was telling you.....silly me.  

New Zealand is fine.....don't worry....And if there are any fools that are living closer to the beach than me, ( 50 metres back )  and they think the sea is going to wash them away, I'll be very interested in buying their properties at a reduced amount.  Of course that wont happen, because people that live near the sea, ( in NZ and probably America )  are normally rich and smart,  ( the reason Al Gore owns sea side real estate )  and they understand when ever you go near the sea, you take your chances...but... by checking out the local geology you can edge your bets against bad things happening. 

Your worries have no foundation, None of the research ( from independent studies )  backs up what you are saying.  If there was evidence for what you say, you or someone would slam me with it.....that never happens.

BTW.  speaking of buying sea side properties. There is investor groups in New Zealand that want to buy these islands, that the inhabitants say are sinking. ( I might be into that, )   it would only take a few years of good ecological  management and they would be pristine again....but of course you know what would happen,  then....all the old inhabitants would want to come back again.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 06/12/2016 17:54:21

Jun 12, 2016 - 10:59:54 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Drivel
 

Longer version.

 


 

 

So....that makes it a longer version of the same nonsense........ it's still the same guy that said the ice will be gone by 2015....so who was right ?....him..... or the skeptics.

Jun 12, 2016 - 11:06:58 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Drivel
 

An even longer but different one.  On a side note, they have recently determined that the Bermuda Triangle, was caused by methane hydrate.

 


 

And a even longer one full of the same nonsense......Drivel....pick any one of your favorite bits of information in this chip, and I'll explain why it has already been debunked.  you choose...anything....

Jun 12, 2016 - 11:11:58 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

Who...remembers when this photo beamed around the world ? 


 

Jun 13, 2016 - 9:20:31 AM

Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

Jun 13, 2016 - 1:55:05 PM

nakigreengrass

New Zealand

3879 posts since 5/16/2012

Drivel...seek out and read the latest ( late 2015 - 2016 ) research papers on Methane emissions.   There seems to be general agreement amongst ( independent ) researches they are not changing much.  Quite the opposite in fact, the uncovering of the ice field tundra, from the current cycle,  has been helping with the greening of the globe, which improves the CO2 to O ratios.  

Notice on the graph.  Methane rose sharply from about 1980 ( caused by removing Sulfates )  then as the Atmosphere has restabilized from about  2000, there has been a lineal pause in the temperature rise and a flattening of Methane emissions.  Note, once again the IPCC had no idea of what would happen.....my guess at the time was way closer than their guess.


 

Jun 13, 2016 - 1:58:59 PM
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dat

USA

30993 posts since 7/26/2006

I will admit that since the ice age, there has been a reduction in the amount of ice in the world

Jun 13, 2016 - 4:59:24 PM

Drivel

USA

1124 posts since 4/17/2009

Incase you don't know what's at stake.  Have a look, this is what the discussion is about,  EARTH.

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