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 Playing Advice: Clawhammer and Old-Time Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Back of the finger


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/78950

Crissdee - Posted - 03/31/2007:  12:22:50


How in the world can anyone pick notes using the back of your fingernail. I can't grow fingernails long enough or strong enough to do this and it is so ackward to even try. How necessary is this? Can you just fingerpick or do you have to go with the back of the nail to pick notes? (My hands have been in garden dirt too long).

ndlxs - Posted - 03/31/2007:  12:26:04


Some people don't have the ability to use their nails. My friend Andy Rubin, who posts here occassionally, uses Alaska Piks turned backwards.

Others, including the late Rick Abrams, would go to Nail Salons and have his right hand index finger done with whatever it is that they do with it. (some kind of plexiglass thing...)

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, California
"The Pearl of the Central Valley"
Buy my CDs:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/pineycreek
and
http://www.offtocalifornia.com

flatfoot - Posted - 03/31/2007:  12:36:01


.

This is a topic that has been brought up often, and there are a number of good solutions. Use the SEARCH command to find old messages.

I have the same problem. Sometimes I use one of several types of pick. When it is OK to play quietly, I use a bare finger. Works fine.

.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I thought my neighbors liked the sound
Until, one rosy dawn,
I saw a sign that said "For Sale"
On ev'ry neighbor's lawn.

janolov - Posted - 03/31/2007:  14:20:04


You don't have to use the nail. You can do two-finger up-picking with almost the same result a clawhammer. It is possible to play most clawhammer tunes almost note by note the same as clawhammer.

Janolov

Nide44 - Posted - 03/31/2007:  15:54:50


quote:
Originally posted by janolov

You don't have to use the nail. You can do two-finger up-picking with almost the same result a clawhammer. It is possible to play most clawhammer tunes almost note by note the same as clawhammer.


Yup, but it ain't downpickin', & it ain't CH.
It can be OT, tho.
This is a forum fer both, CH & OT Styles, so.........
Welcome! (durn no-nails pickin' styles )

Bob B
Yup ! Them's red 'braces'

chip arnold - Posted - 03/31/2007:  16:00:37


Crissdee, On your home page you list Allison Kraus as a favorite and in your bio you describe yourself as a bluegrass fan. Maybe you should be learning bluegrass style instead of Old Time clawhammer (?) If you've listened to enough of each different style and you're certain you want to learn clawhammer, then stick with it a while. Perhaps try some fingernail "enhancement" as mentioned above, but don't give up too soon. If you're sure you want to play Old Time but aren't stuck on clawhammer then learn one or more Old Time finger styles as Janalov says.

Play with a plan
Chip


Edited by - chip arnold on 03/31/2007 16:02:31

canerods - Posted - 03/31/2007:  17:41:04


You don't actually "pick" strings in clawhammer/frailing style. You strike them with a downward movement of the fingernail -- not unlike the way a hammer in a piano strikes a string. Other names discribe this technique as bumping, knocking or rapping etc. The nails don't need to be long -- a normal length fingernail will do fine. It feels weird at first, especially if you're use to using thumb and finger picks. It does help to have strong nails for extended playing. Some players with weak nails use a finger pick turned backwards or other devices to aid in striking the strings -- however, the movement is always downward with the backside (not the tip) of the nail --striking across the string at a slight angle or actually hammering directly down on the string. Some players use the index nail other prefer the middle finger nail -- whatever works for you, it doesn't really matter. Practice a little and it will start to make sense.

"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." Mark Twain


Edited by - canerods on 03/31/2007 17:49:13

jojo25 - Posted - 03/31/2007:  17:54:27


Crissdee,

Hey...you females are supposed to know how to maintain nails!! If'n you can't, how do expect us clueless males to do it!

right now I am resorting to using clear nail polish

I suspect (could be wrong...I was wrong once before but it was a mistake) that you might need someone to show you good technique for clawhammer...rest assured...it can be done...and once you "get" it, it's like knowing how to ride a bike...you'll always have it

hands in the dirt shouldn't be a big issue...CH has been played by many a working stiff

so hang in there...try to surround yourself with folks who already know how to play clawhammer banjo...at least find one

good luck and keep us posted on your progress

Banjonically yours

Joe


Edited by - jojo25 on 03/31/2007 17:55:51

canerods - Posted - 03/31/2007:  18:04:13


Another practice idea would be to just curl your hand and fingers into a "claw" shape and practice playing chords with the all the nails so you can get accustomed to making the banjo ring. In other words, don't worry about striking any single string -- strike them all. Get used to making the banjo sound out in this way until you get used to it. Just an idea. Have fun.

"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." Mark Twain

Crissdee - Posted - 03/31/2007:  19:10:32


Thanks everyone! I love Bluegrass but want to play OT and CH. I bought two books about Clawhammer today at the music store and am ready to give it my all. I'll be back with some good progress reports I hope and a protein painted fingernail.

chip arnold - Posted - 03/31/2007:  19:35:49


Okay, explain "protien painted nail" for us guys. (Please maam).

Play with a plan
Chip

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/31/2007:  19:43:02


It takes a fair amount of work to get the downstroke working, but once it is that is about 90 percent of all teh right hand technique you will ever need.
I suggest working slowly V E R Y S L O W L Y. Lightly curl your fingers with the thumb resting on the 5th string. Without moving the thumb from the 5th string bring the hand down slightly so the index finger catches and sounds the 1st string. Bring the finger back up bent just enough further to miss hitting on the back stroke. Repeat - do not speed up. You are just getting the hand to move the right way and very soon will not be stationing the thumb. This is just an exercise in making the hand move right - don't bother with fretting, or tunes or anything else. It helps to watch in a mirror - not straight on but at an angle so you can see the finger sweep across the string.

Once you are used to making the move, it is time to add the thumb. Put your hand slightly above the strings, bring down the finger to sound the first string as before but as you are doing it, bring the thumb along and plant it on the 5th string. When the hand stops moving there should be pressure on that string from your thumb.
Now snap the thumb forward (toward the fingers). The string will create back pressure and your entire hand will want to jump upward - let it. This puts you back in position for another stroke. Clawhammer banjo has a lot in common with 2 stroke gas engines, automatic weapons and rockets - so tell everyone that you are involved in certain rocket science experiments.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

MossPiglet - Posted - 03/31/2007:  20:27:46


If any of you clawhammer folks havent tried the local nail salon, suck it up and give it a shot .. the one drawback is you have to get it done once a month or so, but if you are gigging its worth it ... Its my secret weapon ... you wont regret it, just tell them its for guitar if the vietnamese folks dont know what a banjo is, and ask them to make it really thick, and you can tweek the length at home with a nail file. A thick nail thats attached to you makes a great fat tone on the banjo with lots of volume, as opposed to a inverted pick.

*Plus its a seriously a nice way to meet girls .... they're intrigued, and u look sensitive for getting your nail done, and u can plug your band!

Moss Piglet

www.mosspiglets.com

J-Walk - Posted - 03/31/2007:  20:41:39


I'm REALLY tempted to visit the local nail salon. My middle finger nail grows at the same pace that I wear it down. Right now, it's way to short, so it'll never catch up unless I stop playing for two weeks. In Tucson, I suspect that the fingernail girls are either Americans or Mexican. I haven't noticed very many Vietnamese people here. If I get a Mexican lady, I'll tell her I'm in a mariachi band.

hyldemoer - Posted - 03/31/2007:  23:20:17


Old subject.
My nails are very brittle. I think just breathing breaks my nails. I'm allergic to and/or afraid to use all petrochemical nail products. Even if I wasn't, the weight of having a false nail or nail polish constantly on my nail would drive me more nuts that I already am.

I tried using a finger pick backwards but couldn't get it on tight enough that it stayed on while I played without cutting off circulation.

I have enough protein in my diet; 30% proteins to 30% lipids to 40% carbohydrates.
Blah blah blah.

I buy false nails at the drug store and tape them on (untrimmed) to my index, middle and ring finger ( If I don't protect the finger nail by covering it when I play, its gone even if I don't use that finger. Go figure!).
I tape the nails on with first aid tape.
First aid tape doesn't leave a sticky residue and I can reuse it several times.

I picked up the trick from one of my banjo teachers. He only uses the first aid taped on finger nail on his middle finger.


Nide44 - Posted - 04/01/2007:  09:38:08


Knox unflavored gelatin in cold water, a few times a week.

Bob B
Yup ! Them's red 'braces'

Clawdan - Posted - 04/01/2007:  09:49:09


As in so many things, it ain't so much what ya got as how you use it. I have a very hard time keeping a nail so I have to keep it short (maybe an eigth inch). SO I tend to work towards using the edge of the nail (look at your hand, nails facing you and find the 10 o'clock position of your chosen playing nail - the front of it by the way and imagine that as a flat pick. I then work on striking the edge of the nail across all the strings (to start) to get my sound.

Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm

Crissdee - Posted - 04/01/2007:  11:17:53


Clawdan! I just bought your book, guide for the clawless! It is great! After reading all this on the fingernail, I remember growing up how when my Dad couldn't find a guitar pick, he would take the plastic top off a coffee can and cut out a pick. He liked the flexibility. Last night I did the same and taped it to my finger. It worked great! My sis in the past, thinking I needed long nails like hers, gave me all this protein bottles for the nails and some stuff called Hard as Nails that you paint on. I inherited my grandmothers nails and they just don't grow or when they do they break with the slightest of pressure. I will started on some Knox too. Thinking about putting on one artificial nail and see how it goes. Thanks Oldwoodchuck, I printed out your reply and will use it daily for practice.


Edited by - Crissdee on 04/01/2007 11:19:06

hyldemoer - Posted - 04/01/2007:  11:55:41


quote:
Originally posted by Nide44

Knox unflavored gelatin in cold water, a few times a week.



Supplimenting with gelatin (which is protein) might work if you have a diet that is deficient in protein
or are not absorbing the protein you ingest.

In addition to eating an ample amount of protein I also take enzymes to help digest the protein.

Some people are genetically predisposed to have thin nails
and that's the kind of nails they have just as sure as their eyes are brown, their ears stick out or their hair is curly.

Hair is made out of protein as well.
All the unflavored gelatin in the world isn't going to grow hair on the head of a bald person if they became bald because its in the DNA they inherited from their parents.

Clawdan - Posted - 04/01/2007:  12:59:34


Thanks for the compliments on the book. Hope it helps you. BTW, the JR Clawpick (I think Elderly carries it) is a great item as nail/picks go. It was designed for clawhammer and though a bit rustic in design, I found it to be the only one that stayed on without hurting and sound natural when playing. Might try one of those if you really can't keep any nail. My nails would shatter faster whenever I tried any harnders or such on them.

Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm

Crissdee - Posted - 04/01/2007:  13:25:14


I will check it out. Thanks!

japus - Posted - 04/01/2007:  16:06:43


I found keeping my middle nail as short as possible is doing a good job for a shorter nail tends to be stronger and I am getting used to the short nail..I am not letting it grow past the tip of my finger, as a back up I have a few claw pics from janet davis's catalog

Forever a beginner
Best wishes....Indiana Pa.

hyldemoer - Posted - 04/01/2007:  16:57:39


Thanks
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/CPK.htm
I might try them out myself
but at $10. each it will cost me $30 to do what I do with cheap plastic finger nails and first aid tape. I don't recall what the tape costs me. I think 100 nails set me back about $5.
I loose them faster than I wear them out.

Perhaps I'll try to make something like the picks you suggested using the nails I already have and something from a sewing supply store.

As I use the nails now, I don't trim down the false nails at all but I also don't extend the false nail anymore beyond the tip of my finger than where my own nail would be kept cut short. That means that when I wear them they're taped on just about to my first knuckle.

I don't wear them so much to give me more than a normal amount of nail to play with,
just to protect what nail I have.

Yesterday I lost 1/3 of my ring finger nail when I was zipping up my jacket. It isn't easy being a fragile little moon goddess of a woman!
Perhaps in the past those who had weak nails took up the fiddle instead?
The strength of my nails never was a problem when fiddle was all I was playing.




Edited by - hyldemoer on 04/01/2007 16:59:15

spherely - Posted - 04/01/2007:  18:36:40


You might want to check out John Balch's site. You can get to it in the members directory. He goes by jbalch. He has instructions on his site on how to make finger picks from ping pong balls. Sounds crazy but they really work. He also shows how to use an acri-pick that is made out of brass and can be pusrchased through some music shops. I'd be surprised if a many of the original clawhammer players didn't spend a lot of time with their fingers in the dirt. You'll find lots of things to help solve your problem here on the BHO so don't give up and above all have fun learning.

Jim

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