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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/78884
vrteach - Posted - 03/30/2007: 13:24:54
Over at EZfolk, Richard Hefner has put up a scan of a 1919 book of banjo songs, titled Songs for the Banjo Arranged in C Notation by Well Known American Players Published by William J. Smith & Co. (1919). I assume that the notation is for banjos tuned in standard C (gCGBD), and it's not tab.
I haven't tried anything, but where else can you find Aloha Oe for the banjo.
http://www.ezfolk.com/library/banjo...o/index.html
It's worth looking at just for the front cover.
Erich
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http://vrteach.freepgs.com/banjo/
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 14:15:58
I have a copy buried in my stacks somewhere. Copies often show up on ebay, so it must have been popular!
America "discovered" Hawaii in the early 'teens and the music shows how far the 'grass skirt' craze had come by 1919. The Hawaiian fad pretty much died out when Carter opened up King Tut's tomb in Nov. of 1922...by the Spring of 1923, the "Oriental Foxtrot" (Egyptian or Middle Eastern themed jazz) was all the rage...and itself gone in just a few short years.
After WWII, with so many GIs having experienced Pacific duty, Hawaii and "Island life" again became a popular theme.
I haven't played any of these tunes but it appears that most of the arrangements are by famous banjoists of the time, Armstrong, Bickford, Lansing, etc.
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have built 'em that way."
===Marc
vrteach - Posted - 03/30/2007: 14:21:24
The little bit that I looked at it, I think that it is for "guitar-style" picking. Is that right?
Erich
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http://vrteach.freepgs.com/banjo/
J-Walk - Posted - 03/30/2007: 14:35:06
That would probably be for 4-string banjos. By 1919, 5-string banjos were losing popularity at a rapid clip. Tuned CGBD?
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 14:36:30
Yes, three finger. Notice that much of the vocal backup style is almost-but-not-quite rolls.
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have built 'em that way."
===Marc
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 14:49:42
quote:Based on the presence of the upward-pointing flags on many of the G notes (first space above the top line of the treble staff), I'd say that this was published for 5-string. An upward stem or flag on that particular G indicated the use of the 5th string.
Originally posted by J-Walk
That would probably be for 4-string banjos. By 1919, 5-string banjos were losing popularity at a rapid clip. Tuned CGBD?
vrteach - Posted - 03/30/2007: 15:03:13
J-Walk, you may be right. Or it may be a mixture of styles identified. Some of the tunes look like finger picking, for example the backup to the chorus of "Sweet Lei Lehua":
But the intro to "That Modulation Ukulele Rag" could easily be a plecturm strum.
Although even with that there are just three strings being used in the "strum" so it could be a thumb-and-two-finger "pinch". Then again, I see no evidence of using the 5th string.
Edit: Ah, Marc gave a more informed post.
By the way, are those numbers in the "Uke" tune indicating the fingers to be used, or frets?
Erich
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http://vrteach.freepgs.com/banjo/
Edited by - vrteach on 03/30/2007 15:12:05
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 15:40:07
Numbers next to the notes are generally LH fingering (1 = first finger, 2 = second, etc). Unfortunately, sometimes these are string assignments (esp. if you see a "O", which would indicate an open string).
Look at the first line of "Maui Girl" and you'll see both a barre indicated by "111" and the D7, indicated by "214"...but also a "0", indicated that the D note should be made on the open D string. Then, there are three "G" notes in the 5th measure with their tails standing straight up...5th string! Same for the first few measures of "Ua Like No a Like"...a mix of fingering and open string (and there's another 5th string flag!).
Page 14, "All My Tender Thoughts of You" has a double-duty note in the very first measure...note that both notes have "0" next to them. One open G is found on the third string and the other only exists on the 5th...
edit: Compare the banjo parts between the stuff that William Foden arranged and the rest (esp. Bickford). Foden was Americas premiere guitarist while Bickford was just a decent banjo player. Foden's arrangements are generally more complex and difficult. While I could probably play Bickfords stuff and manage to croak out a song, I'd have to devote too many brain cells to playing Foden's arrangements!
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have built 'em that way."
===Marc
Edited by - trapdoor2 on 03/30/2007 15:52:57
janolov - Posted - 03/30/2007: 15:43:09
In some songs there are indications for fingering, and the high g note is indicated as 0 (=open). So it is the 5-string banjo.
Otherwise a lot of the old classic banjo music didn't use the fifth string more than occasionally.They never use it as a drone, only when a high g note was required and the open fifth string was easier than fretting another string.
I don't see any sign that it is plectrum banjo, I think all are finger style. In classic banjo I think there often was very small differences in the notation for finger style and plectrum style. The players tended to play it the same way, independant of if the finger or plectrum was used. Erich's example from That Modulation Ukulele Rag can be played by both plectrum and finger style. I have some English banjo books by Emile Grimshaw, who was a master on both styles, and I have found that it sometimes is difficult to identify the style from just the music notation.
Janolov
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 16:24:01
Very true, Jan. Sometimes I find the 5th string is used only by implication. The notation will indicate a paricular position and the only way to get that G note is to use the 5th string.
Back in 1919, the banjo was just another instrument...and people ususally learned it via classical instruction. If a note was written as a 16th note, it was to be played as one...and not allowed to ring any longer than the composer/arranger wrote for it. The 5th string was bothersome to many for just this reason.
Also, there was no real 'standardization' of sheet music for the banjo. Although the upward turned flag (to indicate the 5th string) was used in the earliest of publications, not everyone used it. Fingering indications can be maddening at times. I have stared at pieces for seemingly hours trying to figure out what some numbers indicated.
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have built 'em that way."
===Marc
flatfoot - Posted - 03/30/2007: 22:52:58
.
>>>... I assume that the notation is for banjos tuned in standard C (gCGBD), and it's not tab....>>>>
The indication of C notation does not indicate a C tuning. There are various ways that notes can represent pitches depending on what works for each different instrument. Trumpets are written in Bb notation, alto saxophones are written in Eb Notation, and this book is written in C, the same as piano and guitar. Rather a redundant comment, in my opinion. Usually if a piece is written in C notation that fact is assumed and not stated.
This arpeggio style is straight out of classical guitar. I believe a four-finger right hand technique is what is intended, although 3 fingers could work. These are not the three-finger arpeggios that developed into the rolls we know.
.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I thought my neighbors liked the sound
Until, one rosy dawn,
I saw a sign that said "For Sale"
On ev'ry neighbor's lawn.
Edited by - flatfoot on 03/30/2007 23:32:39
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2007: 23:13:30
quote:As a matter of fact, it does. For banjo music of the period "C Notation" indicates the banjo is tuned to gCGbd and that the notation is written with the lowest note being middle C. Before this, the banjo was typically written in "A Notation", where the banjo was tuned eAEG#b...with the notation having the A below middle C as its lowest note. In the 1880's, the Brits moved toward the use of C notation (and tuning) while Americans clung to the older A. I have several pieces in my collection with seperate versions in each notation scheme (and tuning). Sometimes the "A" version is called "American Notation" in Brit publications.
Originally posted by flatfoot
.The indication of C notation does not uindicate a C tuning.
quote:Yes, the style was initally referred to as "Guitar Style", as opposed to "Banjo Style" (which we now call "stroke style"). Four fingers were indeed utilized when necessary but virtually all of the tutors would recommend one play these using three. There were a number of common techniques of the period capable of making four (or more) note chord stacks with three fingers...same for playing these arpeggios.
This arpeggio style is straight out of classical guitar. I believe a four-finger right hand technique is what is intended, although 3 fingers could work. These are not the three-finger arpeggios that developed into the rolls we know.
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