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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/77868
DelusionsOBanjer - Posted - 03/17/2007: 20:10:15
Greetings.
Anyone have any clawhammer-banjo technique recommendations regarding harmonious interaction with a fiddle-player--when said fiddle-player is your wife?
JK. This is just a shameless way of notifying you that I've put out a request for fiddle resources under the "Off Topic" heading. My wife actually does want to play the fiddle and I've posted some basic questions there. Thanks--for the time being before this gets moved!
......................................................................................................
"Hell, how 'bout a hand for absolutely no reason whatsoever..."
--John Hartford
chip arnold - Posted - 03/17/2007: 20:24:02
The first three rules are:
The fiddler is the boss! (X3)
Play with a plan
Chip
J-Walk - Posted - 03/17/2007: 20:38:30
I think that's great. I wish my wife had even a minor interest in playing something. She loves music, but has zero interest in playing it.
That said, I bought a fiddle 5-6 weeks ago, and I've been trying to play it. Once you get past the initial squeaks and figure out the fingering, it's almost as fun as the banjo. If I keep up my current pace, I should be able to play a decent tune by 2009. That's just another way of saying watch out! Those fiddles are pretty cool, and if there's one laying around you'll be tempted to play with it.
I hope this post doesn't get moved. I'd be interested to hear about how marital partners play together musically when one of those partners is a clawhammer banjo player.
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/17/2007: 21:31:05
Congratulations. Making music with loved ones is even more special than with friends. A few things that might help : Traditionally, the fiddle was the lead instrument, and the banjo played mostle backup. The clawhammer style player simplified the melody, keeping a steady rythem for the fiddle to shine on top of. So don't try to do too much, until the Mrs. tells you to take the lead. If this will be her first instrument, she'll need your steady rythem even more in the early stages , untill she gets to playing smoothly. More modern stuff like melodic clawhammer, and bluegrass, will need to wait. Resources you might want to consider: "The Fiddler's Fakebook" for her, and the companion, "Banjo Player's Fakebook" for you. The songs in the banjo book are written to complement the versions in the fiddler's book. Since so many of the old tunes have variations that came from different regions, sometimes in different keys, 2 parts versus 3 parts, etc, it's good to have the same version for you both to play from. Some of the songs in the banjo book are arranged in 3 finger Scruggs and melodic styles, but there are a lot of clawhammer as well, both traditional and melodic clawhammer.
Good luck, and have fun. Paul
rendesvous1840
"As I see it, every newborn should be issued a banjo." .....Linus
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 03/29/2007 22:06:33
hyldemoer - Posted - 03/17/2007: 22:04:10
quote:
Originally posted by DelusionsOBanjer
Greetings.
Anyone have any clawhammer-banjo technique recommendations regarding harmonious interaction with a fiddle-player--when said fiddle-player is your wife?
brokenstrings - Posted - 03/17/2007: 23:36:59
That rule about the fiddle player's the boss--that might not apply when the fiddle player's a complete beginner. Even in clawhammer.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
janolov - Posted - 03/18/2007: 04:43:18
Sometime ago I read in the Suggestion forum that Eric is going to set up fiddlehangout.com. It seems not to be in operation yet but he seems to work with it.
Janolov
DelusionsOBanjer - Posted - 03/18/2007: 10:16:25
Thanks all for the help!
We're starting to get a handle on some info and resources now.
Best regards,
Delusions
......................................................................................................
"Hell, how 'bout a hand for absolutely no reason whatsoever..."
--John Hartford
geemott - Posted - 03/19/2007: 13:08:18
If she's taking up the fiddle, does that mean you can play your banjo indoors now? Or do you BOTH have to go outside?
GeeMott
"Sir, music played on the banjo is like a dog walking on its hinder legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to find it done at all." --Sam'l Johnson (not the famous one).
Richard - Posted - 03/20/2007: 08:52:19
Lucky guy !
my house would be more harmonious (in more ways than one) if my wife liked music also. good luck with it.
richard
"There is nothing whatsoever that does not become easier with acquaintance" - Santideva
see my band UPDATED and IMPROVED SITE ! http://www.geocities.com/bottleneck...atitude.html
oldtimer - Posted - 03/20/2007: 11:17:18
I don't mean to be discouraging, but I should point out that learning fiddle is much more difficult than learning banjo or guitar. Most adults who want to learn fiddle give it up after a short time. It is even difficult for trained violinists to learn fiddle unless they are willing to give up a lot of the axioms of violinists. However, it can be done if the person is very dedicated.
If the fiddle doesn't work out, suggest guitar. It is much easier for most adults.
Best regards,
Glenn Godsey
"Time passes unhindered"
hyldemoer - Posted - 03/20/2007: 12:54:59
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
I don't mean to be discouraging, but I should point out that learning fiddle is much more difficult than learning banjo or guitar. Most adults who want to learn fiddle give it up after a short time. It is even difficult for trained violinists to learn fiddle unless they are willing to give up a lot of the axioms of violinists. However, it can be done if the person is very dedicated.
If the fiddle doesn't work out, suggest guitar. It is much easier for most adults.
wormpicker - Posted - 03/20/2007: 14:41:32
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
I don't mean to be discouraging, but I should point out that learning fiddle is much more difficult than learning banjo or guitar. Most adults who want to learn fiddle give it up after a short time. It is even difficult for trained violinists to learn fiddle unless they are willing to give up a lot of the axioms of violinists. However, it can be done if the person is very dedicated.
Arcadian - Posted - 03/20/2007: 17:12:17
I agree you're lucky, DOB. My best friend is a fiddle player and we get together at least a couple times a week. She is just enough better than I am so she can play most anything on my tune list easily but not so good she gets bored with my beginner's banjo. I can't think of a better combination than a banjo and fiddle. Contrary to popular thinking, the fiddle does not have to be boss, and it does not have to lead. Banjo lead and fiddle harmony sounds terrific.
"If I get Up There and all they have is harps, I'm gonna have to re-negotiate the whole thing" --Arcadian
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/20/2007: 17:18:45
Many times adults will start learning an instrument, and eventually give it up. Usually the problem is time constraints. Work, child care,home and car repairs, lawn care, chores. Not enough time to play guitar, fiddle, etc. But if you really want it, you do it. It takes longer if you only have 20 minutes a day, than if you have 30, but it comes. Encourage her. Help in any way you can. I used to dream of a Once -in a- lifetime fishing or hunting trip. I never thought I would be able to afford such an expense. Then I read an article that said to save if it took ten years. After your one-time trip, you'll be surprised how much quicker you save for the second trip. After my first bear hunt, I couldn't wait to go again. It took 20 years of dreaming for the first, but in the 6 years since, I've been on 2 more.
When you put 20 minutes a day into a fiddle or other instrument, and start to see progress, you'll be surprised how much easier it is to free up 30 minutes, or more, every day. Do a chore for her,so she can fiddle. If it takes five years to learn, how old will you be in five years if you don't try? Let the lady fiddle, if it's in her, it'll come out. Paul
rendesvous1840
"As I see it, every newborn should be issued a banjo." .....Linus
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 03/20/2007 17:22:33
pinch - Posted - 03/20/2007: 18:22:14
quote:I'm sure everyone has different experiences, but I can honestly say that I found it easier to play the fiddle than the banjo. I found it easier to memorize fiddle music and to play the fiddle by ear. Banjo and fiddle, I love 'em both so much I don't think I could pick a favorite. They both appeal to me in different ways. I consider learning one is cross-training for the other.
Originally posted by oldtimer
I don't mean to be discouraging, but I should point out that learning fiddle is much more difficult than learning banjo or guitar. Most adults who want to learn fiddle give it up after a short time.
wormpicker - Posted - 03/20/2007: 18:40:09
quote:
Originally posted by pinch
I'm sure everyone has different experiences, but I can honestly say that I found it easier to play the fiddle than the banjo. I found it easier to memorize fiddle music and to play the fiddle by ear. Banjo and fiddle, I love 'em both so much I don't think I could pick a favorite. They both appeal to me in different ways. I consider learning one is cross-training for the other.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/20/2007: 19:02:50
My wife took up the fiddle at the age of 36. She had a year or so of piano as a kid and knew 4 chords on the guitar. She is still playing today.
I would say the drop out rate of adults and children is about the same although I have a lot more experience teaching adults than children. Adults usually have strong motivation - like my wife who had wanted to play fiddle all her life - and that can make up for a lot of the time constraints and interruptions.
I greatly prefer teaching motivated adults. Too many children are at lessons because of parents desires or because a guitar lesson is a good excuse to drop off the kid for a couple hours of free baby sitting. Adults have a pretty good idea what they want to learn (BTW most teenagers fall into the adult catagory when it comes to musical motivation).
All that said my best student ever started with me at the age of 10, and by the time he was 14 he was a better classical guitar player than I could ever hope to be. He had the musical sense of a budding Parkening. When I last saw him he was driving cab in Manhattan and taking lessons with Narcisco Yepes. He was far too shy for public performance or teaching though. That was the part I've never figured out how to teach - stage presence.
The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
Arcadian - Posted - 03/20/2007: 19:37:08
quote:
Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb
. He was far too shy for public performance or teaching though. That was the part I've never figured out how to teach - stage presence.
Edited by - Arcadian on 03/20/2007 19:39:01
oldtimer - Posted - 03/20/2007: 21:40:59
quote:I'm sure everyone has different experiences, but I can honestly say that I found it easier to play the fiddle than the banjo. I found it easier to memorize fiddle music and to play the fiddle by ear....
Originally posted by pinch
Edited by - oldtimer on 03/20/2007 21:44:15
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/20/2007: 22:50:23
Arcadian
Some people relate to audiences automatically and some never will, but for most people it is a learning thing. Time on the stage is however, about the only way most people are ever going to learn about it. There are also acting classes, public speaking seminars, and all sorts of ways to get stage experience, but sitting in a small cubicle with a teacher isn't one of them.
My best flamenco teacher used the "sink or swim" method. He told me that I could either join him on stage for a couple numbers or I could walk home - roughly 30 miles in sub-freezing weather. I turned out to be a natural ham, but without that "push" I may never have done it at all.
The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 03/21/2007: 20:20:42
Give your wife the opportuninty to do plenty of listening to good fiddlers (recorded or otherwise).
It is a motivater and keeps one engaged. Plus the more she "falls in love with the music", the more she will be sustained in her attempts. Speaking from experience, the fiddle is a completely addictive instrument- I know, I played it to the exclusion of everything else for about 10 years.
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
*************************
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
loy - Posted - 03/22/2007: 15:20:35
Hi Oldtimer, well you can chalk up 2 times you have heard the fiddle is easier than the banjo ( for me and pinch anyhow!) I have sold all but one of my openbacks and have aquired 2 fiddles that I play by ear after buying a couple of beginner books last november.I still love the banjo, I come back here almost every day to hear my friends play esp. "Frailin Craig", Steve Srubas Mr Zepp, and a bunch of others. I was always put off by claims the fiddle was sooooo hard, has not proven to be the case for me! I have a long way to go but I am having so much more success with the fiddle than I ever did with the banjo.... this aint all that hard! Bottom line if you like the music and the instrument get one and give it a go, sure glad I did, Hey mods any movement on the "fiddle hangout"?? Take care- Loy
Edited by - loy on 03/27/2007 12:09:02
Clawdan - Posted - 03/23/2007: 10:02:02
Hey Delusions,
Great to hear. Mine took up banjo and I fiddle so it is a great time. The interplay is interesting and a topic of much discussion. We'll be leading a class for Clawhammer banjo AND fiddle together at John Campbell school just up the road from you in western NC this October. Hope you'll be ready and able to come.
Also, I will be leading a weeklong fiddle workshop in Tampa the second week of April following a weeklong clawhammer one. You might want to make a trip of it for one or the other or both! Beginners welcome.
Enjoy the interplay. Much like a marriage!
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
banjopogo - Posted - 03/28/2007: 22:54:30
Fiddle does have it's difficulties.
They aren't insurmountable, though.
You do have to have a good sense of pitch.
Can she sing on key?
If so, that is an encouraging sign.
Fiddles also demand a certain amount of gentleness
from the player.
Too rough on the bow, and they squawk!
That may be one of the reasons why a lot of women
do well on fiddle and or violin.
For fiddling, as opposed to violin, it helps to have
a good sense of rhythm. Can she clap in time to music?
Hope she succeeds!
Michael
mp3 page: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088/
hifi radio: http://ezfolk.com/audio/play.php?mode=radio&id=481
lofi radio: http://ezfolk.com/audio/play.php?mode=radio&id=522
"We have met the Enemy, and he is us!"- Walt Kelly's "Pogo"
DelusionsOBanjer - Posted - 03/29/2007: 10:00:37
Hey guys. Thanks very much for all of the input.
I'm well aware of the difficulty in playing the fiddle and did mention this to my wife. A friend of mine, an excellent guitarist, actually claims that he threw his fiddle into the Potomac River out of frustration!
As I mentioned to my wife, whether you play an instrument depends mostly on how motivated you are. If you question that, take a look at the banjo player for Mountain Heart, who is better than I'll ever be despite having basically just a thumb on his left hand. He wants to play and to prove people wrong and boy has he succeeded.
So we're looking into renting one first and then if she is absolutely frustrated and decides that she doesn't want to play the instrument badly enough to deal with the difficulty, no harm done.
Thanks again! This thread certainly sparked some discussion!
Delusions
......................................................................................................
"Hell, how 'bout a hand for absolutely no reason whatsoever..."
--John Hartford
Yopparai - Posted - 03/29/2007: 10:09:36
Since I can't play it, I cannot vouch for its quality and playability, but Musicians Friend has some really cheap ones. I got mine, fiddle, case, bow and rosin for $68. I need to take it to someone that can play and get their opinion. Its a tough nut for me to crack. I have no problem with my fretless banjo, but I still have a hard time putting my fingers in the right place on the fiddle.
hyldemoer - Posted - 03/29/2007: 13:27:06
quote:
Originally posted by Yopparai
Since I can't play it, I cannot vouch for its quality and playability, but Musicians Friend has some really cheap ones. I got mine, fiddle, case, bow and rosin for $68. I need to take it to someone that can play and get their opinion. Its a tough nut for me to crack. I have no problem with my fretless banjo, but I still have a hard time putting my fingers in the right place on the fiddle.
twelvefret - Posted - 03/29/2007: 22:27:59
quote:y
So we're looking into renting one first and then if she is absolutely frustrated and decides that she doesn't want to play the instrument badly enough to deal with the difficulty, no harm done.
SlowPockets - Posted - 03/29/2007: 23:29:36
Yup, some rubbing alcohol cleans the strings right up, I take a q-tip and dip it in the alcohol then run it up and down the srtings where the rosin builds up. I've found that to be the safest way to do it without spilling on the finish, plus you're able to get a little leverage using the stick. I had a cheap fiddle that I did that to and found out real quick that the figerboard wasn't ebony. When the alcohol hit it the paint just melted away.
Rachel Streich - Posted - 03/30/2007: 09:03:11
quote:
Originally posted by SlowPockets
I had a cheap fiddle that I did that to and found out real quick that the figerboard wasn't ebony. When the alcohol hit it the paint just melted away.
BadBrad - Posted - 03/30/2007: 09:29:33
My wife is also learning the fiddle. She played some guitar and piano before, and has performed singer-songwriter folk music in the past. Now that we have gotten more into old-time music she mostly plays the fiddle. She is at the advanced-beginner level. I play mandolin and guitar at more of a strong intermediate level (at least that's how I rate myself -- you can listen my music files and determine for yourself). So, we haven't played together much until recently. Mostly, I back her up while she plays fiddle tunes.
I was interested in trying the fiddle, but she doesn't want me to play the fiddle. She says it's "her" instrument. So, for marital harmony I have stuck to mandolin, guitar, and a little banjo. However, she does play my mandolin sometimes and I have taught her some chords and theory on the mandolin. I'm hoping that it will carry over to her fiddle playing.
She is more of a performer than I am. She has a nice voice and I can't sing worth a darn. I am probably a better musician, but I am rather shy about performing for people. The only time I ever performed in public was when my wife was the opening act at a house concert. She played guitar and sang Bury Me Beneath the Willow, and I played mandolin. I was pretty nervous, but it turned out well.
The really nice thing about having a spouse who also likes old time music is that we can enjoy going to music camps together. Last year we attended several and always had a great time. This year we only have one planned (Swannanoa Old Time Week), but are really looking forward to it.
Edited by - BadBrad on 03/30/2007 09:30:54
twelvefret - Posted - 03/30/2007: 16:40:25
quote:
So, for marital harmony I have stuck to mandolin, guitar, and a little banjo.