patches - Posted - 03/07/2007:  11:56:24

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As a new beginner trying to develop basic "Bluegrass" banjo playing skills, I am using the "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo" book/CD by Janet Davis.

However, as with any book/lessons/etc. there are always "little" tips and ideas that players use to help themselves learn how to play.

I've been able to read TAB, understand how to do cords, etc. and now I am trying to get a little speed... Other than the practice, practice... I started to use a metronome to help me have a constant beat and a "challenge" to increase my speed (with a focus on clear notes). I use the beat for every note. Now I have it set at 144 and will click a notch each day I can develop a clear sound without mistakes. Plus, I play the CD over and over. (Working on Bile Dem Cabbage Down)

In Janet's book she stresses using the index finger to emphasize the melody notes. Here is what I do to make it easier to remember to do this while reading the tab: I took a yellow highlighter and highlighed the Index finger notes. Work's for me!

So, I was just wondering how many other newbies have some tips they are using with this book to improve their playing?

Jump in and add your tips and ideas.... us newbies want to hear from you (even if you're using another book/lessons)

Keep on the sunny side!

Don

jeffpayer - Posted - 03/07/2007:  12:56:33

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hi patches, ive only been playin for abuot 8 months and i started with janets book and cd to. i read your other thread about speed and moving on i practis till i can get the song down in my head then move on BUT i still go back and practis them dayley. I play bile them cabbage down every day as a warm up and speed seems to be gettin alot quicker. so keep it up and good luck..

Mr. Disco - Posted - 03/07/2007:  13:14:50

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Patches --

I'm new. -- Started playing at the beginning of last year.

Man, I'm a huge fan of YCTYB{/b]! It is the second greatest book ever. I'm 95% through it after a little more than a year. I worked on other things during that time including Earl Scruggs and the Five-String Banjo, Janets [b]Scales in Tab, and small parts of lots of other stuff. I just had my first lesson a couple weeks ago. I wanted to do it that way. A lot of people say get a lesson sooner, jam as soon as you can, work on scales, second and third chord positions up the neck, whatever. So many threads on this site give lots of different useful input on all that. -- Best thing I did besides buying the banjo and a metronome / tuner was buying Janet's book.

I guess if I could do the past year over, I'd spend 5 or 10 minutes at the beginning of each session warming up on rolls. If you don't do this before you work on songs, you're likely to walk away from that day's playing having worked your left hand to its fullest but not your right.

--Stuff I did right was to constantly be working my way up to speed on at least two or three songs at a time. I think it's more productive regardless of how short a period of time I give myself. I used the Pete Wernick looping practice method of really drilling on the toughest measure or two repeatedly in time. That and the metronome really made me feel good when I'd go back and play earlier songs in the book.

Hey, enjoy the journey.


Shalom.
-- Mr. Disco

jpoulette - Posted - 03/07/2007:  13:41:21

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Yo - I've got the Janet Davis Christmas Book and I think it's great. I also have a few other books including Nickerson's Encyclopedia, and the Scruggs Book. Definitely good places to start learing about the banjo.

I don't think it can be over stated how important a good teacher would be, assuming that proficiency is your main objective. The looping theory works great - but I still think you need an objective "third eye". I think when you're starting out, there's so many new concepts to absorb that you can't help but pick up bad habits that will eventually, sooner or later, slow your progress. Aside from regular practice - I really think a teacher will give you the most bang for the buck.

I'd also go with Gene Parkers advice in that BNL article - "If you're going to learn something - learn it right. Even if you learn only one thing - learn it correctly". Sounds sooooo easy.....!

Hey Patches - good luck !


Gibson Blackjack
Stuff I'm working on

patches - Posted - 03/07/2007:  14:00:57

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Thanks for the replies! I did take lessons for a couple of months, learned how to do some basic rolls, read tab, strum, and flat pick, and use finger picks. But we were jumping around the lesson books, I became frustrated with the lessons. And purchasing more books (he did work for the music store).

I started over using Janet Davis's book/CD and enjoy having "fun"... and that to me is the most important part, even if I am not the best player. But, it sure is great gettting help on my journey to learning how to play Bluegrass from all of you folks.

Keep in touch!

Keep on the sunny side!

Don

BANJ58 - Posted - 03/07/2007:  14:55:47

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Hi
These books are really good for learning to pick by yourself, but at some point, you will want to pick with others.

i have all the books i can find, but, I also have to recommend Fred Sokolow's book , "The Complete Banjo Book". Fred starts you off with roll patterns, buy, his goal is to get you started playing with others. His method starts you doing backup rolls to songs like Wabash Bannonball and Wreck of the 97. Also works with Little Birdie, Worried Man Blues, and Great Speckled Bird.
My goal was and is to play with other people. I wish I had found this book 20 years ago.
good luck
Steve

ITS ALL GOOD IF YOU MAKE IT THAT WAY

STEVE@WVRVPARK.COM
http://WWW.WVRVPARK.COM

ALL PICKERS WELCOME, LETS JAM !!

AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 03/07/2007:  15:13:58

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The advice about adding the Sokolow book is good. The Janet Davis books are good ones and you will learn if you keep up with them. But additional information from a slightly different perspective is generally a great help. You can benefit from working with all of them: Scruggs, Nickerson, Sadowsky, Trichka, Hatfield, and others not listed here.

AD3

bguyton - Posted - 03/07/2007:  18:24:52

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I tell you what, I got the Janet Davis book and go back to it some, but now I am using the "Basics of Bluegrass Banjo" book by Eddie Collins. It seemed more logical to me than Janet Davis's book, and really got me started. The two CDs that came with it are great as well (I listen to the songs CD in my car and pound the tunes out in my brain before I even get to them in the book).

I got the book, loved it, then was lucky enough to learn that he lives in my area, and so now I'm taking lessons with him.

Check it out, he has several books: http://www.eddiecollins.biz/eddie/books.html

Ben

slowlybutsurely - Posted - 03/07/2007:  18:28:40

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I will if it ever arrives. Had a hold up on my order, but it should be coming.



Tim Nash
"Awaiting my Huber"

sangrej - Posted - 03/08/2007:  07:58:50

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I'm a big fan of several of the Janet Davis books, although I haven't used YCTYB. I'm deeply into her Backup book, Ultimate Banjo Songbook, and Banjo Scales in Tab. Also been using the Splitting the Licks book, but not as often. I only use the CDs when I get into a problem understanding how the tab (usually the rhythm) is supposed to sound. These books have been a great help to me over the last year.

Sangrejoven
"The way I see it, as soon as a baby is born he should be issued a banjo." --Linus Van Pelt

dogsplus2 - Posted - 03/08/2007:  08:01:36

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I've got various beginner books, but the Janet Davis one is the best by far - it really seems to lead you through on a steady curve.

"Life's a learning curve dontchaknow."

Patrick Randall - Posted - 03/08/2007:  10:11:00

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches
Other than the practice, practice... I started to use a metronome to help me have a constant beat and a "challenge" to increase my speed (with a focus on clear notes). I use the beat for every note. Now I have it set at 144 and will click a notch each day I can develop a clear sound without mistakes.

Here is what I do to make it easier to remember to do this while reading the tab: I took a yellow highlighter and highlighed the Index finger notes.

---

I too use a metronome. I write the speeds I can play at comfortably in the book and hope to see them max out over time. It's hard for me without having a major RH finger wreck I have been playing 2weeks now and my roll patterns are only up to 168.

I like the highlighter idea and am going to try that today. I'm also thinking of recording a "benchmark song" - probably cripple creek and putting it in my BHO blog/page so I can hopefully look back and see improvements. I have been working from the DVD (near the end - Licks) but just got the CD as well so I can continue through the book. IMHO she's done a great job.

patches - Posted - 03/08/2007:  15:38:25

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Patrick thanks for becoming a banjo friend!

I listened to your "benchmark song" sounds great to me after only 2 weeks. My "Forward Roll' for Bile Dem Cabbage Down I can get to 168-176 BPM (using a beat per note). Need to keep on trying, when I get up around 184-192 I miss notes and cords.

That's a good idea to record, and play back / review progress. Did you play "Cripple Creek" at about 168 BPM??

What do you use to record your song for the blog? I would like to get something I play now and measure progress too.

Keep in touch.

Keep on the sunny side!

Don

Patrick Randall - Posted - 03/08/2007:  16:01:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches
That's a good idea to record, and play back / review progress. Did you play "Cripple Creek" at about 168 BPM??

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Yes - about 172 according to my mechanical metronome and 180bpm according to Logic (Logic is a PC based recording program that can record midi and audio in multiple tracks - like an old multi-track tape recorder)

quote:

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What do you use to record your song for the blog? I would like to get something I play now and measure progress too.

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In this particular case I used Logic as it was handy. Now Logic is a fairly professional setup but if you want to use your PC you can buy a very able cut down consumer version from ebay for $20 :-) - it's called Magix Midi Studio (Part of Magix Music Studio) http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,175...07127,00.asp
This is incredibly powerful. I also use a little gizmo from Boss - the Micro BR - its tiny and records up to 4 tracks. It can add effects like reverb etc and mix the whole thing down to an MP3. (also has a tuner, drum machine and MP3 practice facility (slow stuff down)) About $220 - fits in your guitar case. I love it.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BOSMICROBR

patches - Posted - 03/08/2007:  16:08:42

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Hmmmmm, I think I will start out with trying to use the PC and look into the Magix Midid Studio.... only need something to play with, more for my own use.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Keep on the sunny side!

Don

Patrick Randall - Posted - 03/08/2007:  16:46:34

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Don,
there are free/shareware programs out there - one I have used is http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about/ That will just use your pc's mic and speakers and produce an MP3 file you can upload.

The neat thing about Magix MusicStudio is it can multi track record so you can put say a bass on Track 1, Guitar on Tr 2, banjo Tr3 etc. Then play the lot back together, adjusting relativ elevels and reverb etc. Later versions can burn CDs too but for value, try to find Magix Music Studio 2006 deLuxe on ebay - was about $15

In fact, here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGIX-MUSIC-STU...cmdZViewItem

Anyone know how to do a more elegant link to a url pls? I'll check the faq.

patches - Posted - 03/08/2007:  21:02:58

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Thanks Patrick, I just downloaded the software... I'll practice then make recording for fun.

Keep on the sunny side!

Don

DelusionsOBanjer - Posted - 03/09/2007:  07:37:27

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I found the responses to this post--"Reaching banjo level 1"--pretty helpful.

http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...PIC_ID=61245



......................................................................................................
"Hell, how 'bout a hand for absolutely no reason whatsoever..."
--John Hartford

BrianBanjos - Posted - 03/09/2007:  09:29:40

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YCTYSB is one of the best beginner books I've seen for any instrument. There are doubtless other good first banjo books, perhaps ones that equal to Davis book, but you just can't go wrong here. For me it has proven to provide a good foundation allowing me to make a satisfying start at bluegrass picking. The things learned here also help you make sense out of other information sources that were perhaps a bit greek before. When I started the guitar I got bogged down by too much information. For now I'm sticking with the Davis book and supplementing it with some tab from another book called "Bluegrass Banjo and Guitar Techniques". I couldn't make heads or tails of the tab in that book until I started the Davis book.

whit - Posted - 03/09/2007:  09:48:57

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I've been playing 5-6 yrs and consider myself a decent intermediate picker.
Recently a friend"student" got the YCTYB and is working out of it.
One thing I've noticed is she really emphasizes leading/melody with the index. Reason she gives is thats the weakest finger, so she works it the hardest.
I recently started working on some melodic stuff, and it made me realize I really have a weaskness in that regard.
So I'm going back to basics thru YCTYB page by page, right along with my bud/student note for note.
It's helping with the melodic stuff, cause to play that you gotta play the melody with just about every RH finger at one time or another.

mbweppner - Posted - 03/09/2007:  10:28:45

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You've seen my other responses to you on her first book, but since you asked about other “general tips” while using the book, I wanted to add:

- In emphasizing the melody, I also use the highlighter to mark the notes but also use a Fielding Cutler Mute. I like the addition of the mute because it allows me to hit those notes really, really hard without being too loud (to other's in the house) while practicing a song's melody.

- I also bought all the JD Backup and Up-the-Neck books/CDs/DVDs at about the 6-month mark. While the backup book is quite daunting (you better be real good with those 4-finger chords) there are excellent tracks for Wabash Cannonball that you will really like after you master the version in her first book. I also really like the Up-the-Neck book because it gives you the "Part II" up-the-neck portion of many of the songs in her first book (starting with Bile Den Cabbage Down!). I like to play this song as a “rolls warmup” and the up-the-neck version is a very fun addition (there even a few different versions so you can practice all the roll types).

- I also like the mute when practicing backup since I can quite my playing and hear the music and timing better.

I just passed the one year last Christmas, I'm 2/3rd's through the book and still enjoy it 100%. I certainly do fill in with other songs not in her book as well other books, CD music, computer software and try to read all the good stuff on this forum (probably the only thing even better than JD's book I have found).

My original book came with a starter banjo package as a gift from my wife (best gift ever). Although the starter banjo now collects dust, the book was the single best part.


Matt W. - Sullivan Festival

BanjoJohnny - Posted - 03/09/2007:  15:23:33

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I like your tip re using a yellow highlighter.
I agree with what other have said in that I like Janet's books.
One thing I did was to take them to Kinko's and have a spiral binder put on then.
As for using them and an instructor, my teacher uses Janet's books also.


Johnny
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

patches - Posted - 03/09/2007:  18:18:10

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Johnny thanks for becoming a banjo friend!

I wonder if STAPLES could make a spiral binder out of this book... that's a good idea.

Keep in touch.


Keep on the sunny side!

Don

justo - Posted - 03/11/2007:  14:58:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches

Johnny thanks for becoming a banjo friend!

I wonder if STAPLES could make a spiral binder out of this book... that's a good idea.

Keep in touch.


Keep on the sunny side!

Don

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they can. i checked into it awhile back. unfortunately for me, they were all out of the spirals, so i went down the street to office max which also had the capability to do this. my guess is that any of the office superstores will have the means to spiral bind any of these books.

j

milkman - Posted - 03/11/2007:  19:27:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches

Johnny thanks for becoming a banjo friend!

I wonder if STAPLES could make a spiral binder out of this book... that's a good idea.

Keep in touch.


Keep on the sunny side!

Don

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I took the tight a.. way with this one. I use a dremel on the binding to get all the glue off and seperate the pages. Then I use my wife 3 hole puncher deal and put it all in a 3 ring binder, way way better than trying to fold the book or hold it open!
By doing this I can also keep misc. tabs and different songs after the book, I have a tendency to leave things lay everywhere and this helped me alot!

slowlybutsurely - Posted - 03/11/2007:  22:51:34

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I finally got the Janet Davis Book, Cd, and DVD. I watched the DVD and flipped through the book. Looks pretty good. It seems easier level thsn the Scruggs book. Her playing on the DVD is pretty basic and easy to understand. I haven't listened to the CD yet. I am going to use it and Murphy method DVD's. I am seriously considering taking lessons for a while. I have a friend in the next town thats talked to me about taking lessons at his music store. I was considering driving to Nashville and taking from Casey Henry but man I don't want to do that drive. I think I will stay closer to home for now. Happy pickin'


Tim Nash
"Awaiting my Huber"

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Edited by - slowlybutsurely on 03/11/2007 22:51:59

serialOC - Posted - 03/12/2007:  01:26:50

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I have only been playing since November 18, 2006, but I find John Lawless's Learn To Play Bluegrass Banjo DVD set to be a much better beginning training aid. I have Janets Book & also her scales in tab book, as well as a few other titles from her & Jack Hatfield. I still use John's DVDs everyday.

___________________________________
Proudly learning to pick more than my nose!

BluegrassBanjo - Posted - 03/12/2007:  09:15:49

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I am to the final lessons in "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo" and just started on "Up The Neck" by Janet Davis. I used the DVD and CD along with the book and I thought it was very good. I also have her "Back-Up Banjo" book, CD, and DVD.

milkman - Posted - 03/12/2007:  13:33:46

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quote:

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Originally posted by BluegrassBanjo

I am to the final lessons in "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo" and just started on "Up The Neck" by Janet Davis. I used the DVD and CD along with the book and I thought it was very good. I also have her "Back-Up Banjo" book, CD, and DVD.

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Is the back-up banjo meant to be a follow up to the you can teach yourself book or do you think a person could learn from both at the same time?

BluegrassBanjo - Posted - 03/12/2007:  14:02:02

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Milkman,
I am only using the first section of the "Back-Up Banjo" book concerning basic vamping. I found it helpful to get the 4 fingered chords down once I got to the section in "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo". I do practice basic vamping at least once per week. I will work on the "back-up banjo" book once I get close to finishing "Up the Neck" book.

Here is a link to her recommended course outline:
http://www.bluegrasscenter.com/course.html

Chris

patches - Posted - 03/12/2007:  14:04:09

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Tim, does the DVD help? Dose it show'n'tell how to do the slide, hammer, pull-off, etc? Enough to buy the DVD?

Milkman, I called Staples about making a spiral binder, they want me to first take the book apart, etc.... Then I got to think'n, why not just poke holes in the pages and put in a binder.... hmmmm, great minds think a like! I like the idea about being able to add note pages and other material. Not being cheap, but being sensible.

Having the book easier to use will make it more user friendly when I practice my Bluegrass rolls/songs.

I don't play slow, I play at "singing speed"... Keep on the sunny side!

Don

milkman - Posted - 03/12/2007:  19:03:37

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quote:

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Originally posted by BluegrassBanjo

Milkman,
I am only using the first section of the "Back-Up Banjo" book concerning basic vamping. I found it helpful to get the 4 fingered chords down once I got to the section in "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo". I do practice basic vamping at least once per week. I will work on the "back-up banjo" book once I get close to finishing "Up the Neck" book.

Here is a link to her recommended course outline:
http://www.bluegrasscenter.com/course.html

Chris

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Wow, backup is way down the list.
Right now my teacher hs me vamping every song in the you can teach book, meaning when I play bile the cabbage I will play it like the book says once thru then vamp it once thru then back to how the book says then back to vamping etc. Its funny, my two year old knows the vamping for Good night ladies and he comes running in to sing that one when I get to the vamping part.

slowlybutsurely - Posted - 03/12/2007:  19:41:14

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patches,
yest the DVD is pretty good. It goes along with the book.

Tim Nash
"Awaiting my Huber"

Patrick Randall - Posted - 03/12/2007:  21:11:07

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches

...does the DVD help? Does it show'n'tell how to do the slide, hammer, pull-off, etc? Enough to buy the DVD?

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Don, it does show in slow-mo closeup how to do all the above.

patches - Posted - 03/13/2007:  13:34:52

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Great, thanks for the feedback about the DVD! I'll need to order one online today.

I don't play slow, I play at "singing speed"... Keep on the sunny side!

Don

2tone - Posted - 03/13/2007:  20:15:22

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Anybody use the banjo primer by Geoff Hohwald? I have the Janet Davis YCTYB also. I like Geoff's version of Boil em Cabbage a little better. Haven't gotten far enough in either one to see which book is right for me.

banjo pickn Dane - Posted - 03/13/2007:  22:13:37

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Well, I have always been a big fan of Ross Nickerson and his books.

banjo pickn Dane - Posted - 03/13/2007:  22:13:41

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Well, I have always been a big fan of Ross Nickerson and his books.

pierce - Posted - 03/13/2007:  22:16:49

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After you've been through the YCTYB book, try her Splitting the Licks or Back-Up Banjo. More good stuff.

patches - Posted - 03/14/2007:  12:42:35

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Hi Pierce, I already have the "Splitting the Licks" book/cds... however I think I will ned to wait till I play better to use it. But, It sure looks good!

I don't play slow, I play at "singing speed"... Keep on the sunny side!

Don

ac5aa - Posted - 03/16/2007:  16:51:03

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Thanks to all for the helpful replies on this thread. I am just returning to banjo after 25+ years of not playing, and I'm using the Janet Davis YCTYB book as a reminder. I'm finding all sorts of errors I made teaching myself that last time I learned (from the Pete Seeger and Earl Scruggs books) back then. I think I'm going to need a teacher, so I guess I'm lucky I live in Austin and may be able to work with Eddie Collins. As soon as work leaves me some time, that is . ..



Duane C.
Gibson RB-250
Martin D-28 Marquis, D-18VS and OM-42

patches - Posted - 03/18/2007:  12:42:14

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I know that it helps to be able to "sing-along" while picking/practicing but some of the songs in this book only have one verse to the lyrics, or worse, none... Does anybody know a quick reference to be able to find some of the missing or additional lyrics?

I don't play slow, I play at "singing speed"... Keep on the sunny side!

Don

Sane_too - Posted - 03/19/2007:  12:46:40

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I have a couple Janet Davis instruction items. I especially like the Ulitmate Banjo Song Book. I didn't really think she would cover all the tunes listed, but she did and ,even better, gave versions of different styles.

I think most of these instructions books are pretty good. Wish they were available when I started when all there was was Pete Seeger and the old version of the Scruggs book.

But the most important learning tool I found was a computer program called Wave Lab that will slow down everything to however slow you want and still keep things on pitch. That way you can follow the tab no matter how slow you need to read. I think they are from $150 to $250 depending what version you want. Maybe we should start a group and whoever has the time can put these to cd's.

Merlyn's unified theory of politician behavior: They are not who they say they are because they are not who they think they are.

Sane_too - Posted - 03/19/2007:  12:50:21

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Patches, just go to Google and type in the title or enough words to identify the song and put lyrics at the end and you can find the words to most songs.

Merlyn's unified theory of politician behavior: They are not who they say they are because they are not who they think they are.

Patrick Randall - Posted - 03/19/2007:  13:36:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sane_too


But the most important learning tool I found was a computer program called Wave Lab that will slow down everything to however slow you want and still keep things on pitch. That way you can follow the tab no matter how slow you need to read. I think they are from $150 to $250 depending what version you want. Maybe we should start a group and whoever has the time can put these to cd's.

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The Janet Davis stuff is available in midi format which can be slowed down / speeded up to precisely the speed you need. This is being addressed on this thread:
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...PIC_ID=77819

The midis are at
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/back...o_midis.html

enjoy

Sane_too - Posted - 03/19/2007:  14:23:42

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That is nice to know, but a midi doesn't sound like the banjo to me. I use Wave Lab for resonator and guitar so it can be used for almost anything. It even works for DVD stuff. You just get the audio, but that is all you really need.

My son is the one who does this for me. He said it is a little hard to figure out, but not that bad once you get it.

That ain't all that reasuring. He is an ER doctor at Mayo Clinic.

Merlyn's unified theory of politician behavior: They are not who they say they are because they are not who they think they are.