Pangle - Posted - 02/26/2007:  17:28:54

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I've heard at least three distinct tunes called Sally Ann. Does anybody out there know the one Dirk Powell did on his album Time Again? Think it's in Am. Where's it from? Heard a solo clawhammer version anywhere? I love that haunting minor sound.

-Dave

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/26/2007:  17:43:54

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The Sally Anne I usually play is from Tommy Jarrell and Fred Cockerham - or the other Round Peak lads. It is in A major (with some mixolydian I think) and has three parts.
The only other Sally Anne I know is a two part tune in D which is basically the first two parts of the Round Peak version. I think that version is also played in A at times.
None of these three versions goes into any minors so I think you are dealing with a pretty uncommon variant. Powell has done a lot of sort of Nashville-ized version of old time, I think stemming from working on at least one Hollywood film so it might just be his own variant. I've not heard that particualr album.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

savzac - Posted - 02/26/2007:  17:49:31

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I love the one by Mark O'Connor it goes to the minor, here is a link I put the song up on my webspace...
"Link deleted for Mike"

«SávZåç»

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Edited by - savzac on 02/27/2007 13:29:06

bagunhe - Posted - 02/26/2007:  18:17:43

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Pangle,
I've not heard Dirk's album you mentioned, but It could be from Joe Birchfield of Roan Mountain Hilltoppers. He called it "Old Time Sally Ann". And it's a solo fiddle version, though.
Bosco

konnichiwa, arigato, sayonara

gailg64 - Posted - 02/26/2007:  19:05:03

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I haven't heard Dirk's version, but I if it sounded "minorish," he may have been inspired by TN fiddler Joe Birchfield's Old-time Sally Ann. It was a solo fiddle piece, sounded nothing like the D or A ones or the G (Pat Your Little Foot Sally Ann) from Western NC. Old Sally Ann had the so-called "moda"l sound similar to Jarrell's Devil in the Strawstack.
G

quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

The Sally Anne I usually play is from Tommy Jarrell and Fred Cockerham - or the other Round Peak lads. It is in A major (with some mixolydian I think) and has three parts.
The only other Sally Anne I know is a two part tune in D which is basically the first two parts of the Round Peak version. I think that version is also played in A at times.
None of these three versions goes into any minors so I think you are dealing with a pretty uncommon variant. Powell has done a lot of sort of Nashville-ized version of old time, I think stemming from working on at least one Hollywood film so it might just be his own variant. I've not heard that particualr album.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

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bnjomn - Posted - 02/26/2007:  19:28:05

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I haven't heard Dirk's version either, but I remember hearing Judy Hyman play a minor tune that she said was Joe Birchfield's Sally Ann. I'll add my vioce to gailg64 and bagunhe that this probably is the tune Dirk is playing.

Cheers,

Len

"A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well."

G. K. Chesterton

oldtimer - Posted - 02/26/2007:  20:10:35

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There is a close family of tunes variously called "Sally Ann", "Old-time Sally Ann", "Sail Away Ladies", and "Great Big Tators in Sandy Land". The latter was Eck Robertson's version, but is very similar to many versions of Sally Ann. Mark O'Conner's "Sally Ann" is almost note-by-note the same as Kenny Baker's "Sail Away Ladies". I learned that version personally from Kenny back in the 1970's. The B part is different, but the A part is the same.

Dirk Powell's "Sally Ann" on the "Time Again" CD is basically the regular Round Peak version of Sally Ann except Dirk mixes the A and B parts a little differently. All three of those tunes and their many variants can go to a relative minor or a modal change in the A part...if you so choose...or they can stay in major and go to the 5 chord instead of a minor. The Round Peak masters rarely went to a modal feel and mostly stayed in a major mode.

It is very confusing to learn all three tunes and keep them sorted out, so I stuck with Kenny Baker's take on "Sail Away Ladies' unless I'm in a session where they are playing Sally Ann...then I adapt. Sally Ann and Old-Time Sally Ann are played in the key of D in the Round Peak area. Sail Away Ladies is generally played in the key of G. "Shorty" Chancellor played Sally Ann in A and some contest style fiddlers followed his version.

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

1998 Riley Baugus
1923 Whyte Laydie
Prust 13" fretless tackhead
Early Ramsey fretless
1878 Henry C. Dobson

"Time passes unhindered"

oldtimer - Posted - 02/26/2007:  20:22:49

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Oh, and I forgot to mention that Dirk is going to a minor in the B part, but the A part is is the usual version.

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

mattn - Posted - 02/26/2007:  23:42:56

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Maybe relevant to the Judy Hyman version mentioned above, we get two Sally Anns in Ithaca: a Round Peak-y major key breakdown and a slow minor key version that the Horse Flies do (there is a version at http://www.archive.org/details/hors...-07.sbd.flac to check out). I know they wrote new lyrics for that version, but I don't know if they wrote the tune also or if it came from somewhere else.

Matt

bagunhe - Posted - 02/27/2007:  00:50:30

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So, is my guess wrong?
I went to Amazon and listen to the sample of Dirk's Sally Ann. Well, it still sounds more Birchfield's than Round Peak's to me in despite of the funny chord progression and couples of extra notes.

BTW, do Hilltoppers ever play minor chords?
Bosco

konnichiwa, arigato, sayonara

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/27/2007:  04:37:10

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Never take the word of a dyslexic - the Round Peak Sally Anne with 3 parts is in D and I've also played it in A with a somewhat different B melody and only 2 parts.
I'm really good at getting information like this crossed up.

Bosco
I don't know much about the current Hilltoppers, but when Joe Birchfield was their fiddler at the Brandywine festival, they played three sets without a single minor chord. The guitar and banjo played 3 chords per key -- I, IV, and V. One half of that year's Brandwine lp was devoted to them and that same lineup also put out an lp around the same time, so I'm not dealing with the imperfections of my memory on their style.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

u k sandra - Posted - 02/27/2007:  08:49:15

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I like Mary Z Cox`s version, She plays it in double D.

s donnelly

oldtimer - Posted - 02/27/2007:  10:06:44

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quote:

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Originally posted by bagunhe

So, is my guess wrong?
I went to Amazon and listen to the sample of Dirk's Sally Ann. Well, it still sounds more Birchfield's than Round Peak's to me in despite of the funny chord progression and couples of extra notes.
....

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I spoke too quickly about my impression of Dirk's version. Last night, I played along with Dirk's recording on the fiddle and discovered that his version is more esoteric than I first thought. He is playing it in C/Am, which doesn't sound like a big deal to banjoheads, but it is very very unusual on fiddle for Sally Ann. He goes to the Am in the B part, which is something I've never heard before.

So, I was was wrong to quickly say that it sounded like a "regular Round Peak version". It is a little unusual and I like it. I'm going to start fiddling it this way with the "Old-time Goodtime Boys".

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

1998 Riley Baugus
1923 Whyte Laydie
Prust 13" fretless tackhead
Early Ramsey fretless
1878 Henry C. Dobson

"Time passes unhindered"

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Edited by - oldtimer on 02/27/2007 10:07:47

Bluesage - Posted - 02/27/2007:  12:48:18

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quote:

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I love the one by Mark O'Connor it goes to the minor, here is a link I put the song up on my webspace...
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/savzac3/sally.mp3

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Let's try not to encourage the illegal downloading of music by posting MP3s of which you don't own the copywrite (I doubt Mark O'Connor has given permission).

Mike Iverson
-free downloads of my clawhammer banjo arrangements (pdf files) at www.bluesageband.com

bnjomn - Posted - 02/27/2007:  13:04:36

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quote:

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Originally posted by mattn

Maybe relevant to the Judy Hyman version mentioned above, we get two Sally Anns in Ithaca: a Round Peak-y major key breakdown and a slow minor key version that the Horse Flies do (there is a version at http://www.archive.org/details/hors...-07.sbd.flac to check out). I know they wrote new lyrics for that version, but I don't know if they wrote the tune also or if it came from somewhere else.

Matt

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Hi Matt,

I checked out the the version of Sally Ann at the link you provided. It's the same as the one I remember Judy saying came from Joe Birchfield. Hopefully Pangle will check it out and let us know if it's the same as Dirk Powell's.

Cheers,

Len

"A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well."

G. K. Chesterton

savzac - Posted - 02/27/2007:  13:26:53

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Well hopefully no one is downloading it and they are just listening to the version that I own. I bought it from Walmart and I wanted this topic to hear the version I like.
I tell you what if you want you can drop by my house and I'll let you listen to it on my cd player, will it be legal enough for you then?

I deleted my link and took the song off my webspace so that your link that you quoted me on will not work Mike. People acting like this is exactly why there are so many people downloading songs illegally. I have had people tell me personally that they didn't start downloading illegally until they heard very wealthy artists complaining on TV, that made them start. Oh well...

«SávZåç»

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Edited by - savzac on 02/27/2007 13:32:28

dbrooks - Posted - 02/27/2007:  15:32:30

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Savzac,

Mike was right to make that call. And you did the right thing by removing the link. It keeps the Hangout cleaner and more artist-friendly as well.

David

Pangle - Posted - 02/27/2007:  16:21:37

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Yes, Dirk's version is a close variant of the one that Judy Hyman is playing, which apparently is the Birchfield version before that. It's a great one. Thanks for all the feedback! I play it already on the diatonic accordion, it's definitely an Am/C kind of affair. Now I've gotta figure out how to do it clawhammer! I'll report back eventually...

Bluesage - Posted - 02/27/2007:  23:10:11

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quote:

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I tell you what if you want you can drop by my house and I'll let you listen to it on my cd player, will it be legal enough for you then?

I deleted my link and took the song off my webspace so that your link that you quoted me on will not work Mike. People acting like this is exactly why there are so many people downloading songs illegally. I have had people tell me personally that they didn't start downloading illegally until they heard very wealthy artists complaining on TV, that made them start. Oh well...

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For the most part, even well known bluegrass, folk and old-timey musicians have a hard time making ends meet and are hardly "wealthy artists".

Since I felt the need to play the bad guy and bring this issue to folk's attention, maybe I can make up for it by posting a tab for everyone to download (legally).

http://bluesageband.com/Tab%20pdf%2...sallyann.pdf

You can modify the backup chords by substituting an Am chord for the D7 chord in the "B part" of the song. If you choose to do this, use a D (or D7) in the measure following the Am.

Mike Iverson
-free downloads of my clawhammer banjo arrangements (pdf files) at www.bluesageband.com

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Edited by - Bluesage on 02/28/2007 16:16:57

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/28/2007:  02:45:34

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Listening to my Joe Birchfield cds I come across three distnct Sally Annes.

One is the melody most of us associate with Sally Anne, done in the key of D from the sound of it, and with two parts - which I think would be normal most places. I'm pretty sure the Round Peak 3rd part was a local variant and possibly one composed by Charlie Lowe.

The second is the melody most often associated with Sail Away Ladies (both parts) and sounds to be in A or G

The third is probably the version used by Powell etc. This is an A modal (Dorian) tune that is very close to Elzic's Farewell. The chording (is one were to do harmony of this would be Am and GM. I've heard Elsic's Farewell (aka Elswick's Farewell) done as a stringband tune using this chording which is very common for dorian tunes (Pretty Polly, Cold Frosty Morning, Cluck Old Hen, etc). I have two recordings of this tune by Birchfield. Differences between them are small.

There may be yet a forth version fiddled by Joe Birchfield on the Hilltoppers record. Sally Anne is listed as being on that record in my tune database but at the moment I can't find the cd. One of the problems of inadequate shelf space is the relegating of cds to stacks.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

Pangle - Posted - 02/28/2007:  10:08:47

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Thanks to Mike for the great Sally Ann tab and for all your great tabs and MP3s on the bluesage website. Lots of good learning material to work on!
-D

eickmewg - Posted - 02/28/2007:  17:09:03

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John Burke's tab of "Sally Ann" is in G tuning in two parts, coarse and fine. To my ear there is nothing minor in this rendition. It is a very nice tune and I've modifed the coarse part some to get a little syncopation into it. I enjoy playing it.

P.S. Burke says his tab is a variant of that fiddled by Bunt Stephens, whoever he might be.

Bill

'05 Lee Rose Hill 12", #165
'06 Romero 13" custom walnut, #0684

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Edited by - eickmewg on 02/28/2007 17:10:53

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/01/2007:  00:20:28

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Uncle Bunt Stevens shows up on teh Folkways Anthology (aka The Harry Smith Collection). In my entire old time collection I have only 5 tunes by him, and no Sally Anne. But I seriously recommend going to the juneberry site and listening to his "Candy Girl". I know more than one fiddler who were first inspired by this amazing recording.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

tubaphone1927 - Posted - 03/01/2007:  00:58:13

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The version I learned has 4 parts and is played out of D. I got it from Dwight Diller's Just Banjo '99.

"Who says a Banjo Player can't drive a BMW!"

janolov - Posted - 03/01/2007:  03:59:07

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Is Earl Scruggs' version in G/A tuning (asnd played up the neck) similar to the G/A version(s) mentioned here?

Janolov

pjtip - Posted - 03/01/2007:  21:02:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bluesage


Since I felt the need to play the bad guy and bring this issue to folk's attention, maybe I can make up for it by posting a tab for everyone to download (legally).

http://bluesageband.com/Tab%20pdf%2...sallyann.pdf

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Thanks Mike!