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Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/12/2007: 15:11:45
Jim, send me your phone number via Hangout email. You won't have to leave Lodi.
Bill
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 02/12/2007 15:22:44
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
BigDawg - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:59:37
Would that be Austin, Texas or Austin, Minnesota? I'd be a yes on the former but I had to go to my nephew's wedding last August in the latter and it's a little too far for a weekend. 
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 15:14:48
T for Texas! Cool. Didn't know bout the other (latter) but Texas is the one.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
BigDawg - Posted - 01/08/2007: 15:49:40
Austin, Minnesota - home of Hormel and the Spam Museum. Very educational! Keep us updated on the TEXAS workshop.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 15:51:52
quote:
Originally posted by BigDawg
Austin, Minnesota - home of Hormel and the Spam Museum. Very educational! Keep us updated on the TEXAS workshop.
Geeze, now I'm REALLy embarased. We were at the Spam museum about a year and a half ago. Great place, but Miss Jennifer wouldn't let me take a photo of her there.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.usAuthor of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at
http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
JS Coffman - Posted - 01/08/2007: 16:00:24
"Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop."
I'd be interested in making that one, Dan. I used to live in Austin and was thinking about a trip down that way this spring to see frients. Do keep putting up details as they come available.
Joel
BigDawg - Posted - 01/08/2007: 16:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Clawdan
Geeze, now I'm REALLy embarased. We were at the Spam museum about a year and a half ago. Great place, but Miss Jennifer wouldn't let me take a photo of her there.
That's what Photoshop is for.
bschorfhaar - Posted - 01/08/2007: 16:38:21
Geeze, now I'm REALLy embarased. We were at the Spam museum about a year and a half ago. Great place, but Miss Jennifer wouldn't let me take a photo of her there.
haw! did you enjoy the special aroma there, mr. dan?
IT'S FREE!!
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 16:43:22
Loved the trip. Was up in the Rochester (MN) for workshops that year and it was too close to miss (yeah, I get it, smelled it all the way from there!). Great tour btw.
Anyway, I'll let you know as details become more firm. Dates are planned to be March 24&25 so more as we get closer. Any requests of lenght of workshop, subjects and such?
Also, just tentatively also set up a Las Cruces, NM solo weekend the weekend before - 16-18 - for workshops in banjo and fiddle as well as a performance. Just starting to set that up, so ...
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
alligood - Posted - 01/08/2007: 16:53:19
Dan,
I'm in Austin and I'll attend.
John
demc62 - Posted - 01/08/2007: 22:05:43
I'm about 1/2 hr north of Austin...texas that is. I'm interested. Will it be a workshop geared to beginners, intermediates, advanced or all of the above. I made a house concert and workshop with Bob Carlin in Austin several years ago. Same type of thing?
Dave
"got banjer?"
Clawdan - Posted - 01/09/2007: 09:35:28
quote:
Originally posted by demc62
I'm about 1/2 hr north of Austin...texas that is. I'm interested. Will it be a workshop geared to beginners, intermediates, advanced or all of the above. I made a house concert and workshop with Bob Carlin in Austin several years ago. Same type of thing?
Dave
"got banjer?"
Can't speak for what was done before, but the usual way we are doing these workshops is that we divide up into levels and do a class each for each level. SO, yes, all levels will be addressed.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.usAuthor of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at
http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
DelusionsOBanjer - Posted - 01/10/2007: 10:22:47
You've got me thinking about a roadtrip. Austin. COOOL....
......................................................................................................
"Hell, how 'bout a hand for absolutely no reason whatsoever..."
--John Hartford
wannabanjo - Posted - 01/23/2007: 13:59:38
I'm right down the road in San Antonio - count me in!
dbrooks - Posted - 01/26/2007: 11:59:41
Hi, Dan.
This is a great, imaginative set of topics for the workshops you and Bob have planned. They go well beyond the usual clawhammer workshops that are offered. I hope you guys continue to develop these new workshop approaches.
David
Clawdan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 09:35:18
Hello Austin!
Details are in for the workshop there in March with myself AND Bob Carlin. Sunday March 25 we'll be doing an all day workshop 9-5 at Vilins Etc. on Burnet Road. Give em a call to register at 512-452-5617. Let me know if you have any trouble.
ALSO, we will both be available for private sessions Saturday March 24 (Bob - banjo, me, both banjo and fiddle) as well as in concert that eveing.
Hope yall can make it!
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
banjo_brad - Posted - 02/13/2007: 14:10:29
ukjonathan-
Make sure your downstoke (strum) is fast enough to sound like a chord, and check that the timing is right. If you count 1-2-3-4, the 1st string is one, 2 is empty, three is the strum and 4 is the thumb.
-------1----2----3----4----
-------M---------B----T----
Where M = finger, B = brush, and T= thumb.
Check out some of the videos by Zepp, or on my ezFolk page (mine are very basic, but give you a sense of the rythmn).
Brad
"Banjos and Fiddles and Guitars, Oh My!" (me)
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/5
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
JS Coffman - Posted - 02/13/2007: 14:16:19
Mike Iverson's website is a GREAT resource for all levels of CH players. Go to http://www.bluesageband.com/Tabs.html
In the instruction section there is a line titled "Basic Right Hand Technique". It starts right at the beginning and takes you through what it takes to get the bum-ditty. Get the PDF and then listen to the sound file. Best of luck, keep working at it - at some point the light witll come on and you'll never lose it.
Joel
Edited by - JS Coffman on 02/13/2007 14:21:12
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 14:22:59
Thx Brad & Joel I will keep plugging away until that dam light comes on
Nide44 - Posted - 02/13/2007: 14:25:21
It's the hesitation at "2" (of 1,2,3,4) that must be phrased correctly
to get the dumm-da-da.
In music notation it is a 1/4 note followed by (2) 1/8 notes..... or worded
correctly- a quarter note followed by two eighth notes.
if you start very slowly and use whatever works best:
Laa-da-da......bumm-dit-dit (in morse code its dash-dot-dot)
dumm-da-da, or Bum-di-ty.....its the carry over of the first beat,
to equal the value of the two beats that follow.
Oh, BTW......the "How and Tao" instructionals- both the
manual and the audio files, can help you too.
http://www.ezfolk.com/banjo/howtao/
Bob B
Yup ! Them's red braces 
Edited by - Nide44 on 02/13/2007 14:30:30
stringbeaner - Posted - 02/13/2007: 16:17:38
Well, now that everyone has got you plumb confused, lemme tell you how it goes!
Get into a "G" tuning..(no left hand chords to worry about.) Rest your right arm 1/2 way (about) betwixt wrist and elbow and let your (right) hand sort of hang over the strings a little bit north of the fingerboard. Your hand should be relaxed, thumb loose sort of like a relaxed chicken foot.
Now, some folks use the index finger and some use the middle. I use the middle. Using the wrist as a pivot, take a stroke at the 1st string with the back of the fingernail of which ever finger you have decided on. As your fingernail strikes the string you have chosen, the thumb comes to rest on the 5th string. Pivoting again at the wrist,raise the hand and strike the same (for now) string again and again let your thumb come to rest on the 5th string only this time when you raise your hand, let your thumb pluck the 5th string. Do not leave a gap between the 2nd downstroke with your finger and the up pluck with the thumb.
So, now you have a bum - dit - ty. what you want is a bum - ditty so the bum and the following upstroke in which your thumb rests on the5th string but DOESN'T strike it counts as a quarter note (Bum =1st down & upstroke with out thumb). Ditty = 2nd downstroke + thumb upstroke. There! You should now have a bum-ditty iffin you did it like I said. If you got a bum-ditty, do it a lot.
banjobutte
canerods - Posted - 02/13/2007: 16:30:27
I agree with all of the above. The problem for me was understanding any written description of the bum-ditty. The first day I got my banjo I found Mike Iverson's website -- I listened over and over to his basic right hand technique demonstration. He really does a great job of slowing walking you through the motion step-by-step. After an hour of practice I was getting it. In two days I had it down pretty well. You may want to give it a listen yourself, here's a link to the audio:
http://www.bluesageband.com/Tab%20M...echnique.mp3
Good luck to you!!
"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." Mark Twain
RPM - Posted - 02/13/2007: 17:34:14
Nide44 is making the point that you're not looking just to hit the notes in the right order. You're looking to create a rhythmic 'figure.'
Like he says, note length is one factor to keep in mind, and the other is accent. The "bum" note should be accented, and the "dit" less so. The "ty" sort of fills it out.
You can't go wrong with Mike Iverson's site.
chip arnold - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:35:45
the timing is 1&2&1&2&1&2&1&2& * 1& are the bum....2 is dit......& is ty *
or sound, silent, sound, sound * four distinct counts, the second of which is silent.
bum dit ty
1 & 2 &
Play with a plan
Chip
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
Frode B - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:09:53
What would you call this fingering technique? http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0PbWwY5g8
It's me, and I have been fooling around with the banjo for a couple of years without any guiding. I'm a guitar/pedal steel player so I guess I am mixing it all up on the banjo.
The banjo is a Bart Reiter special ( thanks mr.Balch!)
Frode
Oslo, Norway
jbalch - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:25:38
Frode:
The banjo and your playing sound great! I hope you are enjoying it. That is a nice one.
Your technique looks like a combination of thumb-lead with both up-picking and down strokes. I guess that is a fair description. It is very different from my style...but it seems to work well for you. One thing I learned way back at the Tennessee Banjo Institute is that there is a big wide world of different banjo playing styles....and as long as it works for you...it is all good!
http://www.johnbalchmusic.com/
http://www.myspace.com/johnbalch
Yopparai - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:37:06
Yep. Looks like Frode-style picking. I think it may have originated somewhere in Norway.
And it sounds good.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/13/2007: 19:29:04
Can't actually hear it - no sound card. But the picking reminds me of multiple styles Pete Seeger tends to combine into his playing. He wouldn't be a bad roll model - no pun intended.
The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
Frode B - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:09:53
What would you call this fingering technique? http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0PbWwY5g8
It's me, and I have been fooling around with the banjo for a couple of years without any guiding. I'm a guitar/pedal steel player so I guess I am mixing it all up on the banjo.
The banjo is a Bart Reiter special ( thanks mr.Balch!)
Frode
Oslo, Norway
Rimstick - Posted - 02/11/2007: 23:52:42
Gang -
Looking for some advice here. I got the "bum tiddy" going pretty good but it still doesn't consistantly sound like music. One of the problems I've identified is that my strum is making music, whereas when I listen closely to recordings, I think the strings should sound more "dead", as if I was muting them by "chiming" at the 7th fret. More of a wash board rasp than musical notes. Hope you can follow that.
I've moved my elbow closer to the rim, which raised my hand position. This in turn put a very flat attack angle on the strings for the lower fingers and helped some.
I fully realize there are some times you need the strum to "chord" as part of the song, but I'm talking about the ability to generally produce a "beat" that gets your toes tapping and sets the beat of the song.
Any ideas?
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
brokenstrings - Posted - 02/12/2007: 00:12:13
When you play the highest-pitched strings on the harp--the real short ones--they sound pretty dead.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/12/2007: 04:28:48
Sounds to me as if you are looking for the big cluck. This is the sound you will hear on many modern stringband albums - usually on the back beat ("did" of bum did-dy).
Instead of a strum across the strings with the frail finger, a sound that carries and has no rhythmic snap, the cluck is achieved buy striking the strings and stopping them immediately - creating a stacatto "chunk" that propels the rhythm.
There are several explanations of the big cluck on this forum - but if your luck at using the wsearch function is as bad as mine here it is again - briefly.
The hand is brought down on the strings so that two or three fingers hit simultaneously, and then come to rest on the next higher (in pitch) string. The hand is actually tilted toward the head so the fingers are coming down toward the head when they hit.
Text is not a good way to explain this and I'm trying to find someone with real skill at videography to tape me doing the big cluck from several different angles so that it can be seen clearly.
Another way to get a good view of it is to look for a banjo player in your area who does the cluck and ask them to show you how it is achieved.
Most people don't call it the Big Cluck. I invented the term to distinguish it from the plain or 'little' cluck (which only takes playing over the harmonic node at the 19th fret) as I was finding that people on this forum were mis-understanding what I was talking about.
The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
Rimstick - Posted - 02/12/2007: 22:02:44
Dear Mr. Wood Chuck -
Your explanation did not suck.
In fact, was probably worth an extra buck.
I'll try my hand using the Cluck.
Then report back if I get stuck.
Thanks to all and wish me luck.
Yuck! Yuck! Yuck!
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/13/2007: 04:02:32
I'd reply in a similar style but the only remaining rhymes I can think of are "tuck", "muck" and ..... one more.
The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
Rimstick - Posted - 02/14/2007: 12:23:58
You of course mean "firetruck", right ?
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
Frode B - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:09:53
What would you call this fingering technique? http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0PbWwY5g8
It's me, and I have been fooling around with the banjo for a couple of years without any guiding. I'm a guitar/pedal steel player so I guess I am mixing it all up on the banjo.
The banjo is a Bart Reiter special ( thanks mr.Balch!)
Frode
Oslo, Norway
Rimstick - Posted - 02/11/2007: 23:52:42
Gang -
Looking for some advice here. I got the "bum tiddy" going pretty good but it still doesn't consistantly sound like music. One of the problems I've identified is that my strum is making music, whereas when I listen closely to recordings, I think the strings should sound more "dead", as if I was muting them by "chiming" at the 7th fret. More of a wash board rasp than musical notes. Hope you can follow that.
I've moved my elbow closer to the rim, which raised my hand position. This in turn put a very flat attack angle on the strings for the lower fingers and helped some.
I fully realize there are some times you need the strum to "chord" as part of the song, but I'm talking about the ability to generally produce a "beat" that gets your toes tapping and sets the beat of the song.
Any ideas?
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
Ron Ortegel - Posted - 02/01/2007: 11:52:07
How well does the brass plate to the fifth fret position work on a fretless? Anyone have experience with this?
chip arnold - Posted - 02/01/2007: 12:25:52
A friend of mine, Tom Ryan, of Sautee, Ga. is making beautiful banjos, most of which feature 1-5 or 7 fretless w/brass plate. He's also a masterful fretless player and they sound great with him behind the wheel. I don't know that brass is really any better than formica, wood or whatever but it sure looks purty.
Play with a plan
Chip
uncledaveh - Posted - 02/01/2007: 12:40:49
Chip
Do you have contact information for Tom Ryan. I'd like to have a good fretless banjo.
Hot dog!!!
David "Uncle Dave" Holbrook
Rockdale Ridgerunners
"Now good people, we're going to play this next tune with more heterogeneous constapolicy, double flavor and unknown quality than usual."
chip arnold - Posted - 02/01/2007: 12:57:27
Tom doesn't have a website yet. You can email him or call him.
tryan711@mail.com
Also a cell number: 706-969-9328
Tom's work is (IMHO) really beautiful. He does georgous heel carvings, marquetry etc. His prices are way too low. Really.
Play with a plan
Chip
FretlessFury - Posted - 02/01/2007: 14:07:19
I'm having a semi-fretless banjo made by Will Fielding of Vermont. The nut through the 7th fret will have a brass plate, and then it's going to be fretted right up to the 22nd fret. I wanted to be able to combine fretless playing with up-the-neck chord work.
Anyway, Will does amazing work. I've played half a dozen of his instruments and all of them have sounded great and felt right. In a side by side comparison, I would say Will's detail work is among the very best in handmade banjos today. His fret dressing is impecable, and his joinery is absolutely precise. This is why I chose him over many others to make my next banjo.
In terms of the brass overlay: I've noticed that you can get singy slides with metal fretboards if you ride up on the string with your nail. It gives it a certain character that I don't hear with wooden fretboards, which is why I'm opting for brass on mine. German silver is also an option with a lot of makers.
Anyway, please do check out Will Fielding. He's been great to work with and after playing many many banjos, his stood out to me above all the rest.
Here is his website:
http://www.willfielding.com/
I'll be sure to post photos and sound files once Will is done. Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with Will. I just really like his work.
Tom Collins
--------------------------
www.newhottimes.com
Red hot old time music.
Isaac Enloe - Posted - 02/01/2007: 14:18:50
I have a fretless with a brass plate to the ninth fret position. I like the look and feel of brass, but when I was talking with Travis Stuart last year, he said that he prefers formica for an easier slide (oil and tarnish can feel sticky on brass sometimes).
Isaac
Tackhead - Posted - 02/01/2007: 14:44:51
Has anyone retro-fitted a plate to a fretless. For example, how hard would it be to install a plate on a Tradesman fretless?
~John
John Flynn
Tallahassee, FL
Kole - Posted - 02/01/2007: 17:33:00
Theres a luthier named Louis Freilicher that does that type of work. He'll inlay the brass on your fretboard. Looks like he does some nice work. His website is: www.freilicherguitars.com
Flesher Tarantella
Cedar Mountain Banjos
JS Coffman - Posted - 02/01/2007: 17:46:21
quote:
Originally posted by Tackhead
Has anyone retro-fitted a plate to a fretless. For example, how hard would it be to install a plate on a Tradesman fretless?
~John
John Flynn
Tallahassee, FL
I took the first 5 frets out of my Goodtime and put brass in. Wasn't too hard. I bought some shim brass at the hardware store, roughed it out with a dremel and then used a hand file and some fine grit sandpaper to finish the fit. I spent about 3 hours on it from the time I drove to the hardware store till I glued it in place. It ended up with about a 1/32nd inch cockeyedness right where it fits up against the 6th (now 1st) fret but it's really hard to see unless you look close and I did it more of a for fun project than a technical one.
If I were doing it with a better banjo I'd take care to get it fit _just_ right and it's certainly doable. Go for it!
Joel
brokenstrings - Posted - 02/01/2007: 21:25:39
Could you do this with copper instead of brass, or is the softness of the copper a problem?
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
Don Borchelt - Posted - 02/01/2007: 21:56:18
I have pictures of my two semi-fretless banjos on my homepage. Both are fretless up to the fifth fret. I had the plate ground down to a knife edge from about halfway between the fourth and fifth fret positions, so that the fifth fret is actually functional. The advantage of the semi-fretless, of course, is that in the upper register, where the notes are closer together, getting good intonation on a fretless is problematic. Both necks were made by Steve Pierce, a local luthier. I also have a Paramount with a regular scale semi-fretless neck which I made myself, my first experimentation with the idea. I have to work on that banjo, though, and I haven't had the time.
"When I asked my cousin, Horney Rodgers, several years ago how he rated himself as a fiddler, he paused for a moment and replied, "I'm the only man that I ever heard that played the fiddle jest exactly the way I wanted to hear it played.""
- John Rice Irwin
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 02/01/2007 21:59:44
MountainBanjo - Posted - 02/02/2007: 00:35:00
quote:
Originally posted by JS Coffman
I took the first 5 frets out of my Goodtime and put brass in. Wasn't too hard. I bought some shim brass at the hardware store, roughed it out with a dremel and then used a hand file and some fine grit sandpaper to finish the fit. I spent about 3 hours on it from the time I drove to the hardware store till I glued it in place. It ended up with about a 1/32nd inch cockeyedness right where it fits up against the 6th (now 1st) fret but it's really hard to see unless you look close and I did it more of a for fun project than a technical one.
I did the same thing, and then took off the brass and put the frets back in.
lifeinajug - Posted - 02/04/2007: 13:50:44
I also was under the impression that a some players use their finger nails a lit when playing fretless and that tends to gouge out wooden fretboards after some time...
Travis
Dogfeathers - Posted - 02/04/2007: 14:28:15
I made a brass plate for my banjo to the 7th fret and I undercut the back side of the plate so the plate straddles the exhisting frets. Therefore I can put the plate on and have a fretless and take it off in two minutes and it is back to being a fretted banjo again. No wrecking a vintage insturment or thrashing the fingerboard pulling out the frets. Looks pretty good and works just fine.
I documented how I did it, send me a e-mail off list and I can send you the file if interested.
Happy Frails,
Dogfeathers
SF Bay Area
bschorfhaar - Posted - 02/05/2007: 11:34:16
thanks for the file dogfeathers!
teebee - Posted - 02/07/2007: 11:45:33
Here's a picture of a brass plate I made for my own homemade fretless.
https://home.comcast.net/~tbarlowt/Tsbanjo.htm
It's about halfway down the page and the right hand picture. It goes to the 10th fret I believe. The position marjers were made with a pencil eraser mounted in a portable drill.
happy to tinker
black flag - Posted - 02/11/2007: 10:55:19
A good alternative to brass is nickel-silver, which buffs out beautifully, tarnishes minimally compared to brass and won't turn your fingertips green. Kevin Enoch uses it on his fancier line of fretless banjos. Someday, instead of having my Gibson refretted, I'll inlay a piece of n-s inside the binding.
Chris
http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/...products.htm
Don Borchelt - Posted - 02/11/2007: 13:07:22
You know, I have an A-scale neck with a nickel-silver plate up to the fifth fret, made for me by Mike Ramsey. It is set up to fit a standard Vegaphone 10 15/16ths pot. If somebody wants to make me a decent offer, I would just as soon part with it. When I ordered the neck, I didn't realize that A scale meant more than just knocking off the top two frets, which is what I really wanted. The A-scale, of course, crams the same number of frets into the shorter space, so the bridge ends up being near the middle of the pot. That didn't work for me, so I went a different route. I was going to put it on a Little Wonder or something, and sell it as a complete banjo, but the Little Wonder tenors have been going on ebay for like $500 to $600, so i have pretty much given up on that idea. I also don't think I want to screw around with ebay. Anyway, email me if you would like.
Moderators, let me know if I am violating any sort of procedure here. If the Hangout needs a cut, I'll be glad to oblige. I'll oblige, anyway, even if you don't need it.
- Don Borchelt
"Well, I know there's a lotta big preachers that know a lot more than I do
But it could be that the good Lord likes a little pickin' too."
- Tom T. Hall, from The Year That Clayton Delaney Died
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 02/11/2007 13:09:05
oldtimer - Posted - 02/11/2007: 16:34:29
quote:
Originally posted by lifeinajug
I also was under the impression that a some players use their finger nails a lit when playing fretless and that tends to gouge out wooden fretboards after some time...
Travis
Yes, Brad Leftwich talks about fingernail fretting and brass fingerboards in his Round Peak banjo book. Interestingly, the first person to show me fingernail fretting was Earl Scruggs, backstage at a festival in the 70's. Earl showed me a particular lick up the neck where he fretted with his third nail.
Years later, I was talking with Riley Baugus and he said that, growing up at the feet of the Round Peak masters, he was taught to play fretless with his nails. Riley said that he doesn't play fretless much anymore because his nails are "sorta wimpy". However, Riley did play fretless beautifully to Kirk Sutphin's fiddle on the video, "Carrying on the Traditions: Appalachian Fiddling Today". They were very young when that wonderful video was made.
I have a brass fretless, an early Mike Ramsey...the brass goes to about the 7th fret and there are no frets. Playing with the nails on brass has a unique sound on the slides, sort of a bluesy whine that you don't get on wood fingerboards. You can hear me play it with myself fiddling on my Hangout page.
20 years ago, I didn't know anyone outside the Round Peak area playing fretless (except for Mike Seeger's gourd). Fretless has really grown in popularity now, and I think that a new generation is developing different techniques, mostly foregoing the nail fretting and using wood fingerboards. Probably a lot of this new spread of fretless is because of people like Bob Carlin who doesn't play with nails and he plays a wooden fingerboard.
Best regards,
Glenn Godsey
1998 Riley Baugus
1923 Whyte Laydie
Prust 13" fretless tackhead
Early Ramsey fretless
1878 Henry C. Dobson
"Time passes unhindered"
Stev187 - Posted - 02/11/2007: 21:57:19
Had to chime in here...
Folks on this list ID'd the banjo Tommy Jarell is holding on the cover of "Come and Go With Me."
Verdict was it's Paul Brown's banjo, a Kyle Creed neck on a Supertone pot. It's got that nice swoop after the 5th sring pip--kinda looks like a Texas Scoop!
I've thought about doing brass or something on my fretless neck if it ever gets chewed up in the years to come. As a bass player, I am used to pushing metal strings into ebony with the fleshy part of my finger. I like that sound. I think Fred Cockerham's Creed banjo was formica; Ray Alden (who took care of that banjo for many years) makes some fretless banjos with Corian, the stuff you put on countertops).
Two other thoughts from the thread:
1) In my days, I have seen many homemade fretless disasters with both electric basses and banjos. If you've never worked on instruments, it's unlikely to go very well in your home workshop. Trust me. I tried to make my own fretless bass twice (just like Jaco did in the 70s with boat epoxy and plastic wood). In my opinion, this is a DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME kind of thing.
2) Arnie's right--Chuck Lee is making awesome banjos! I've played a few over the last couple of years, but last Friday I made the trip to Elderly to see my old pals (I worked there between college and grad school) and play some banjos. I played about 6 of Lee's banjos, and there was a Chalk Mountain there that was hands down the best sounding banjo in the store. The banjos are also major eye candy if that's your thing. I'm amazed in the quality of CH banjos out there since I left Elderly in 1992.
Steve
Flint, MI
bschorfhaar - Posted - 02/12/2007: 12:09:12
nice. i am considering having someone to that to my goldtone cb100. but i don't know who that someone would be, any suggestions?
Stev187 - Posted - 02/12/2007: 15:51:47
quote:
Originally posted by bschorfhaar
nice. i am considering having someone to that to my goldtone cb100. but i don't know who that someone would be, any suggestions?
If you're willing to take the neck off and ship it, you'll have a lot more options. If you want it done locally, perhaps BHO members from WA can chime in.
Steve
Flint, MI
Don Borchelt - Posted - 02/12/2007: 18:52:03
About four people expressed an interest in my extra semi-fretless neck. I suppose I should do this right. This weekend I get the neck back from the luthier who has it, take some pictures, and post it in the swap section, like I probably am supposed to. I'm looking for about $500, which is just a few less than what Ramsey charged me for it in 2002. Barry, I tried to respond to your email, but your spam blocker had me pegged!
- Don Borchelt
"Well, I know there's a lotta big preachers that know a lot more than I do
But it could be that the good Lord likes a little pickin' too."
- Tom T. Hall, from The Year That Clayton Delaney Died
Isaac Enloe - Posted - 02/12/2007: 20:18:15
[quote]Originally posted by Stev187
Verdict was it's Paul Brown's banjo, a Kyle Creed neck on a Supertone pot. It's got that nice swoop after the 5th sring pip--kinda looks like a Texas Scoop!
A friend of mine has played that banjo and said that after the brass plate, the rest of the fretboard is covered with black formica. Wild, right?
Isaac
"There's more to think of than y'all's thought of, ain't it?"
-Paul Sutphin
banjot - Posted - 02/14/2007: 09:13:48
In answer to Brokenstring's question about using copper instead of brass; I was fortunate enough to spend a fair amount of time with Kyle Creed. He swore by copper, saying it slid better.
Tom Mylet
ZEPP - Posted - 02/14/2007: 10:01:09
quote:
Originally posted by Isaac Enloe
It's got that nice swoop after the 5th sring pip--kinda looks like a Texas Scoop!
Yep--in fact Chuck Lee (AFAIK, the originator of the term "Texas Scoop," when he noticed the similarity of the shape to the southwestern border of Texas--where he builds his banjos, of course) matches the scoop shape and the overlay shape on his "Deephollow" fretless model.
Most cool!
Cheers,
ZEPP
*
zepp@zeppmusic.com website:
http://zeppmusic.com/ Skype us at zeppmusic *
Stev187 - Posted - 02/14/2007: 13:43:26
quote:
Originally posted by ZEPP
Most cool!
Most cool, indeed! Check out this bass from a web site Mike Ramsey told me about:
There's that cool swoop again! And the busetta corners are a great touch--looks like the early American Prescott basses (Scott LaFaro played one of those). Mike said his wife has a bass from this place, which is now out of business. And it's GREEN! Check it out:
http://www.nortoncustoms.com/mini_g...s_lagoon.htmSteve
Picture of my bass (no swoop):
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...&albumid=291
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
Frode B - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:09:53
What would you call this fingering technique? http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0PbWwY5g8
It's me, and I have been fooling around with the banjo for a couple of years without any guiding. I'm a guitar/pedal steel player so I guess I am mixing it all up on the banjo.
The banjo is a Bart Reiter special ( thanks mr.Balch!)
Frode
Oslo, Norway
Rimstick - Posted - 02/11/2007: 23:52:42
Gang -
Looking for some advice here. I got the "bum tiddy" going pretty good but it still doesn't consistantly sound like music. One of the problems I've identified is that my strum is making music, whereas when I listen closely to recordings, I think the strings should sound more "dead", as if I was muting them by "chiming" at the 7th fret. More of a wash board rasp than musical notes. Hope you can follow that.
I've moved my elbow closer to the rim, which raised my hand position. This in turn put a very flat attack angle on the strings for the lower fingers and helped some.
I fully realize there are some times you need the strum to "chord" as part of the song, but I'm talking about the ability to generally produce a "beat" that gets your toes tapping and sets the beat of the song.
Any ideas?
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
Ron Ortegel - Posted - 02/01/2007: 11:52:07
How well does the brass plate to the fifth fret position work on a fretless? Anyone have experience with this?
MarkJohnson - Posted - 02/12/2007: 07:29:17
I have always felt that the tune, Cold Frosty Morning" was a moody piece of music to say the least and best played in a minor key. We recorded it in the key of "A Model" or "Mountain Minor/Sawmill Tuning".
I just figured out how to post this tune to my Hangout Homepage for anyone who is in the process of learning this piece. It is another perspective on a great old tune. MJ
rtpipkin - Posted - 02/12/2007: 08:52:34
Hey that's a nice tune. Thanks for posting it.
ndlxs - Posted - 02/12/2007: 09:46:58
It works out rather well, way up the neck, in Double C tuning as well; I had a student request it that way because Laurie Lewis plays it in that key.
Andy Alexis
Sacramento, California
"The Pearl of the Central Valley"
Buy my CDs:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/pineycreek
and
http://www.offtocalifornia.com
J M - Posted - 02/12/2007: 13:18:27
Aye, i like your music. The first time i heard "Timberline" on XM it was sooo sweet i just had stop and take it all in. Welcome to the BHO and Thank You!
Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/12/2007: 15:18:38
Very nice--you & Emory did a great job of playing a beautiful and interesting version of the tune without engaging in the musical pyrotechnics all too common among players with your abilities. My compliments.
Bill
chip arnold - Posted - 02/12/2007: 20:08:33
Mark, that's an awful nice job. I learned CFM from Miles Krassen's book 30 or so years ago before I ever heard it played. It's still one of my favorite tunes and usually the first thing I play when I tune to mtn. minor. I'm going to steal a couple of those really pretty things you did with it!! :-)
Play with a plan
Chip
brokenstrings - Posted - 02/13/2007: 00:23:13
Like it, Mark! You're Mark "Clawgrass" Johnson, right? Not Mark "Bluehammer" Johnson?
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
royce - Posted - 02/13/2007: 09:35:30
Mark,
You flat out Rock and that's coming from a hardcore bluegrasser.
Royce
rinemb - Posted - 02/14/2007: 15:43:29
I learned it in the same modal/sawmill tuning. Its one of my favorite to hear and to play. Yep I have now cabbaged on to a couple of little phrases you do there. Gives me a second time through with a little difference. My biggest problem on that tune is I tend to play it a little too fast. Thanks, brad
May not the incidence of success, nor the pretense of retirement-Lessen the want of enlightenment.
Jim Treganza - Posted - 02/12/2007: 14:17:23
I'm brand new at this and want to take a few lessons. I've been unable to find anybody who gives clawhammer lessons less than 45 miles away from Stockton, CA. I work for a local theatre and we were even unable to find a picker to play with the orchestra in a recent show! For money! Does anybody know somebody who plays old-time banjo in this neck of the woods? I really don't want to drive to Berkeley or Sacramento. Thanks.
Clawdan - Posted - 01/08/2007: 14:06:12
Hi Folks,
Bob Carlin and I are planning a workshop weekend in Austin in late March this year. Wanted to start by giving you a heads up and see who is interested. I'll be glad to keep you up to date of details as they develop.
Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm
ukjonathan - Posted - 02/13/2007: 13:42:16
hi I thought the striking of the strings with the claw hand would be the hardest bit, but no I'm wrong! I can hit the strings in various configurations but can I hell get the bum ditty bit. It just sounds like ting, ting ting. I strike my 1st bottom string then strum down following on by thumb off the drone string. But still no bum ditty. Anyone help? I guess this is the hard bit?
Frode B - Posted - 02/13/2007: 18:09:53
What would you call this fingering technique? http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0PbWwY5g8
It's me, and I have been fooling around with the banjo for a couple of years without any guiding. I'm a guitar/pedal steel player so I guess I am mixing it all up on the banjo.
The banjo is a Bart Reiter special ( thanks mr.Balch!)
Frode
Oslo, Norway
Rimstick - Posted - 02/11/2007: 23:52:42
Gang -
Looking for some advice here. I got the "bum tiddy" going pretty good but it still doesn't consistantly sound like music. One of the problems I've identified is that my strum is making music, whereas when I listen closely to recordings, I think the strings should sound more "dead", as if I was muting them by "chiming" at the 7th fret. More of a wash board rasp than musical notes. Hope you can follow that.
I've moved my elbow closer to the rim, which raised my hand position. This in turn put a very flat attack angle on the strings for the lower fingers and helped some.
I fully realize there are some times you need the strum to "chord" as part of the song, but I'm talking about the ability to generally produce a "beat" that gets your toes tapping and sets the beat of the song.
Any ideas?
Regards,
Rimstick
Uncle Dave Macon makes me laugh !!
Ron Ortegel - Posted - 02/01/2007: 11:52:07
How well does the brass plate to the fifth fret position work on a fretless? Anyone have experience with this?
MarkJohnson - Posted - 02/12/2007: 07:29:17
I have always felt that the tune, Cold Frosty Morning" was a moody piece of music to say the least and best played in a minor key. We recorded it in the key of "A Model" or "Mountain Minor/Sawmill Tuning".
I just figured out how to post this tune to my Hangout Homepage for anyone who is in the process of learning this piece. It is another perspective on a great old tune. MJ
Madgenius - Posted - 02/14/2007: 12:17:59
Hi
Can anybody recomend a good place to find a whole bunch of easy to play 2 and 3 chords songs suitable for clawhammer and mandolin (both beginner)
Thanks in Advance
Danny
"Music is a joy to me, sometimes living in it is the only safe place to be" Brian May
haiku - Posted - 02/14/2007: 14:20:36
Juneberry78s.com have a lot of Old-Time Music:
http://www.juneberry78s.com/otmsampler/index.html
There's no tab, but it's a good opportunity to learn songs by ear. Beside, most of them are 2-or-3-chord songs, once you've found the melody it should not be so hard to find out what to play.
At least, that's what I do...
-----
What will ya have?!
I'll have a pint!
I'll have a pint with you, Sir!
Madgenius - Posted - 02/14/2007: 18:01:47
Thanks guys
Danny
"Music is a joy to me, sometimes living in it is the only safe place to be" Brian May
It is a great tune and one of several tunes that I play in minor key. Jerusalem's Ridge, Foggy Dew, Clinch Mt. Backstep etc.etc.
'Good Wednesday Morning' 2 hrs
'Rasputin' 7 hrs
