mew0717 - Posted - 02/05/2007:  21:47:42

Hey all, I've been playing the banjo now for a little over year.. I play all the time (Im literally late to work some mornings)... I'm gettin to the point where i'd want to start going to jams, but I cannot get a smooth transition to a D shape chord (4234) to save my life. It kills me on songs like "The ballad of jed clampet" and "I dont love nobody (eddie collins beyond the basics of bluegrass banjo). Can you guys offer any drills or somehting i could do to help me increase my transition time. My fingers just do not want to cooperate. How long did it take you guys to get that shape down smoothly?

flange5st - Posted - 02/05/2007:  21:57:07

........howdy mew, welcome to the HO!.........how high is the action on your finger board?......if it's real high, it makes it more diffulcult to hit the strings dead on........it might need an adjustment............just a thought.....good ,luck.....Peace

mew0717 - Posted - 02/05/2007:  22:01:19

funny you mention that... It was really really high up until today... I got it lowered today, and i might still be adjusting... Feels good to finally be able to play up the neck though. Any drills or antying to help out?

bosborne - Posted - 02/05/2007:  22:11:41

mew, are you sure that the angle of your wrist is right? Your palm should not be close to the neck, if it's too close then then your fingers don't have the freedom to get "above" the frets and it's going to be hard to get the D chord.

mosco - Posted - 02/05/2007:  22:20:52

"Jed Clampett" as per your example, does not require all four fingers to be placed at the same time; put down fingers 1,2, and 4, and then add the ring finger when needed. This approach can help you to master the fingerings. Once you can place 1, 2 and 4 in one motion, then it's relatively easy to accurately place the ring finger. Then you work on speeding up the placement of the third finger until it becomes one "extended" motion to place them all on the appropriate frets. Some folks need to master it in smaller steps, starting with fingers one and two, then adding the fourth, and then adding the third, but the long-term goal is for all the fingers to move into place in what is basically one motion.

bladekeeper - Posted - 02/05/2007:  22:59:57

Mew,

I've got a TableEdit file that might help. I't's basic backup vamping, but it has chord shape transitions up and down the neck between G C and D and utilizing all three shapes. Shoot me an email if you are interested.

Bryan

"You can't ride home on a bowl of goat. I've always said that." - Ron White

Bubbatone - Posted - 02/05/2007:  23:11:34

mosco gave you the answer you need. The way to increase your speed and accuracy is to just fret only the notes that you need in the chord. This is true for any chord that you play anywhere on the neck. It's important to "see" the whole chord, and be aware of which chordal position you're playing out of, but you should try to fret the whole chord unless it's necessary. But even in that case, you'll fret the notes that you need first, then fret the other notes as they are needed.

Muddlefingers - Posted - 02/05/2007:  23:24:11

A few tips.

Realize that the you can go from the F position to the D position and not lift the fingers on strings 1 and 4. I call it riding the rails. This helps speed up transitions when vamping etc. Their are times this will not work though.

The bad habit I had when making a D position, was putting my fingers down in "roll" motion, example not all at the same time. I practiced hoovering over and planting on the stringts over and over. Then I would go from an F position to a D position over and over. No need to even do rolls. Just work the chording.

I consider myself a slow learner and it took me years to get this to the point I was not frustrated with the crappy sound I was getting.

The action is critical as has been mentioned. It seems beginners like a lower action up the neck and the more seasoned like it higher. I am sure some have taken the action up and down as they have progressed over the years.

Muddlefingers - Posted - 02/05/2007:  23:28:57

Not sure why some of my text was scrambled on the last post. Trying again.

A few tips.

Realize that as you go from the F position to the D position you do not need to lift the fingers on strings 1 and 4. I call it "riding the rails." This helps speed up transitions when vamping etc. Their are times this will not work though.

The bad habit I had when making a D position, was putting my fingers down in "roll" motion, example not all at the same time. I practiced hoovering over and planting on the stringts over and over. Then I would go from an F position to a D position over and over. No need to even do rolls. Just work the chording.

I consider myself a slow learner and it took me years to get this to the point I was not frustrated with the crappy sound I was getting.

The action is critical as has been mentioned. It seems beginners like a lower action up the neck and the more seasoned like it higher. I am sure some have taken the action up and down as they have progressed over the years.

knows pickin - Posted - 02/06/2007:  01:43:05

I've played the Jed Clampett version tabbed out by Allen Munde for about four years now. I never fret all four fingers together.
I plant the index, middle, and pinky together, and only bring the ring finger down to the fourth string for one note. I then immediately get it out of the way. That has always worked for me. Mosco was exactly right in the way he described it.

Knows Pickin

Don't keep pickin it, You'l only make it sore! (mom)

1935tb-11 - Posted - 02/06/2007:  02:11:16

start out capoed in A and start a regiment of playing in D position
using D G A chored this will get you use to the way it feels holding the D
and it is not as far a stretch. play it over and over and over. then when it becomes
second nature take the capo off and try it in normal D and you hand will have that
memory built in it

terry m
n.c..

4 longs and 1 short=banjer ring !!!

AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 02/06/2007:  08:38:48

Fingering that D chord is problematic for most of us in the beginning. Luckily, we can use partial D chords for much of our playing . . . Butlearning to finger the whole D chord is important in the long run. I found that forming the F chord and moving it into position and then the index and middle fingers was a help for a while. After that, it's just repetetion.

Ad3

banjogud - Posted - 02/06/2007:  08:43:19

all good advice. when I play songs I often only fret the first three strings. Doing Backup, however, it is important to get all four strings fretted. Like "Muddlefingers" said,..practice "riding the rails". Start up at the first" F" chord, and move to the first "D"chord by sliding your pinky and ring fingers along the strings, and moving your index and mid fingers to the proper frets. Progress this way all the way up the neck, atlternating between "F" position chords and "D " position chords.
Once you are used to that, then try a vamping exercise. Pluck the "F" position G chordat the fifth fret for 1/2 measure, and then jump up to the "D" position G chord at the 9the fret for the second 1/2 of the measure. do this over and over.

This is typical backup vamping. Sometimes it is effective to sound the bass string at the first position after the first "vamp", and slide it "along the rails" to the second position and finish the measure with an alternating thumb roll.

A lot of this back up technique is explained in the first accutab video on "powerpicking" vol 1 with Bill Evens.

Deaf David - Posted - 02/06/2007:  08:50:01

As Muddlefingers mentioned, the index and pinky don't have to change strings at all when moving between F and D shapes. Just switch the position of the two middle fingers as you slide up and down the neck. That insight came slow to me and made a huge difference.

I still bumble about at the higher frets in going from a bar to a D shape, or from single notes to a D shape. I think I need my strings lowered just a touch.

mew0717 - Posted - 02/06/2007:  09:18:25

One of my transitions that i struggle with though is from the bar position to the D shape... Any suggestions to do that? For the song "I don't love nobody" the whole d shape is necessary and my fingers just dont want to cooperate.

mosco - Posted - 02/06/2007:  11:12:34

Play the barre chord with the finger that positions your hand to switch into the D position at the correct frets. The index finger playing the barre at the second fret is where it needs to be for the D chord, so don't pick it up from the fingerboard; just reposition it and then add the other fingers.
Train yourself to leave fingers down if they are where they belong, and learn to slide them if the
new chord requres new frets. The F to D progression described above is an excellent example of that. Two fingers simply slide up one fret, while the other two trade strings. Far too often people will pick up all the fingers and start over again, but by using what is already fretted they can simplify the physical action required to change to the new chord and get there a lot quicker and easier. You can also help the process by using your 3rd and 4th fingers more in tunes that you may not use them much in now, to help develop their dexterity. Try using them on the first part of Banjo in the Hollow, or fret the first string in the second half of Buffalo Gals with them, or any place like those examples where you can substitute the fingering with the goal of being able to use those fingers as comfortably as you most likely are with the index and middle fingers now.