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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Why practice Rolls?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/73919

knows pickin - Posted - 02/04/2007:  15:36:12


When I first started to play the banjo, I couldn't figure out why players practiced Rolls? When I practice Scruggs Style picking I' m practicing rolls throughout. So why bother?
Later on, I began to listen VERY carefully to my playing, and noticed the "invisible" notes which had crept into my playing. Although a measure had eight beats, I found that often I only sounded 7 notes, along with an "invisible eighth note. It was caused by my "wiping" the pick across a string, (at high speed) and not picking it firmly.
This occured in 7 or 8 songs which I played, and I had a devilish time correcting it. The correction, of course, came only when I began to practice Rolls.

Knows Pickin

Don't keep pickin it, You'l only make it sore! (mom)

Westvon - Posted - 02/04/2007:  15:42:41


You got it. The right hand rolls make up about 90% of what need to be a successful banjo player.

David Russell
http://www.hotbanjolicks.com
http://www.myspace.com/westvon


Edited by - Westvon on 02/04/2007 15:43:00

flatfoot - Posted - 02/04/2007:  17:10:47


.
.

I practice rolls over chord changes. For instance 1 bar of G, 1 bar of C, 1 bar of D7 etc. All the time repeating a forward with the the right hand.

Ill do that for ten minutes, then the sme chords while executing backward rolls on the right hand. And so on... I do it with a metronome and so far can get close to 100 bpm, but not quite.

My idea is that there are a small number of rolls that I must be able to execute fast and reliably as a first step. The next step will be to find the melody notes and bring them out as part of the rolls. I am already able to find some of the melody notes, and this indicates to me that I am on the right track. But so far I am still mostly practicing the rolls.

MY QUESTION: What do you more experienced players have to say about this approach? Am I on the right track? Or am I reinforcing a bad habit?



Lewis! Is that a Banjo? Paddle Faster!


Edited by - flatfoot on 02/04/2007 17:11:21

Joanchek - Posted - 02/04/2007:  17:36:00


Knows, I am dealing with this exact problem right now, and I realized that back-to-basics roll practice is what I need. I call it "lazy index finger syndrome" and it's really about sloppy technique.

Off to TIMTIMTI for a while :D

A few banjo-centric items for your consideration--Check out new designs written by Mike Gregory: www.cafepress.com/eggheadtrivia

555Glenn - Posted - 02/04/2007:  18:12:25


the picking hand is suppose be even. If you practice with both hands then the fret hand will make the picking hand compensate and the rhythm becomes uneven. Practice rolls then add the fret hand to make the picking hand dominate in the timing.

Pick that banjar any way you can.

flatfoot - Posted - 02/04/2007:  20:28:54


.

I am surprised that I have not been able to find a clear and simple list of what rolls I should learn, in order of importance. What I have guessed is that the forward roll is the most-used roll, followed by the backward roll. Pinch rools and box rolls come after that. Therefore I am learning these rolls, in this order of importnace.

Is this correct? What do you suggest are the most importnat rolls? Which ones should I leaern first, second and so on...??

.

Lewis! Do you haer a Banjo? Paddle Faster!

rollin36 - Posted - 02/04/2007:  20:43:26


I'm a new player, with guitar experince..And i used a forwards backwards roll on my guitar sometimes when i play finger style. When i started playing banjo i praticed that same roll and then started learning songs. The beginer songs, cripple creek, banjo in the hollow ,ect have all those incorperated in them...Play them slowly and cleanly and you will avoid the bordon of just right hand movement. After you play them 1000 times all your rolls will come togather or so mine did.All those beginer songs are taught for a reason...To pactice basic rolls. It's whats worked for me.

ON THE DAY BEFORE THE FIRST GOD CREATED ODE BANJOS

AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 02/05/2007:  09:02:59


It is like the coach emphasizing fundamentals; we practice the rolls because we need a full repetoire of rolls in order to play Scruggs-style.

Ad3

crowestyle - Posted - 02/05/2007:  09:48:25


quote:
Originally posted by flatfoot

.

I am surprised that I have not been able to find a clear and simple list of what rolls I should learn, in order of importance. What I have guessed is that the forward roll is the most-used roll, followed by the backward roll. Pinch rools and box rolls come after that. Therefore I am learning these rolls, in this order of importnace.

Is this correct? What do you suggest are the most importnat rolls? Which ones should I leaern first, second and so on...??




I don't think there is a clea, end-of-discussion list on what roll is most important. Some players favor certain rolls to get the sound they want. I would say there are five rolls you should be able to play with equal efficiency. While the foward roll is the most common in Scruggs style, the roll is usually changing from one to the other constantly. Here are the rolls I think most would agree are the most important to learn starting out. Foward roll, backward roll, alternating thumb roll(or box roll, square roll, etc.), FMB roll, and the foward-reverse roll. Of course there are many others, but most are variations of the basic rolls anyway. Practice them slow and with proper emphasis. Timing is 90% of what makes a good banjo player.

"I don't have a girlfriend, I just know a girl who would get really mad if she heard me say that."- Mitch Hedberg

www.myspace.com/crowestyle

spiritwolf7 - Posted - 02/05/2007:  10:02:19


I don't know about any other instructional materials but Fred Sokolow's The Complete Bluegrass Banjo Method covers 7 basic rolls from the very beginning and follows them right up with common variations.

SpiritWolf

The earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it. You might as well expect the rivers to run backwards as that any man who was born a free man should be contented when penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases.

Chief Joseph
Nez Perce'
1830 - 1904

nodster - Posted - 02/05/2007:  10:52:10


I don't know about anyone else, but I frequently leave out the left hand and practice the 'roll' of a section I'm having problems with, or that I think could sound better. If you just practice the tune, it's easy to fudge either the timing between notes, or the dynamics, and get away with it. Plus, it's not always so easy to tell if the problem is coming from the right or left hand. If you practice just the right hand with open strings any mistakes in picking are much easier to isolate and work on.

Basically, just what Glenn said above!

Gordon


"you can't get the wood, y'know"


Bart Veerman - Posted - 02/05/2007:  11:03:40


Practicing rolls only by themselves gets real boring real fast and causes a lot of banjos to end up in closest never to see daylight again. If you insist you must practice them then do like Flatfoot does, throw in all the chords you know and/or want to know.
For playing backup using one roll usually works fine (when starting out) but you should realize that when you play lead that rolls do get interupted, or mixed up, to make the melody don't fit. The important thing is to recognize the sequence in which your fingers pick the strings and as soon as the message sinks in allow yourself to apply it to a bunch of tunes. There's a lot of tabs that "feature" certain rolls to make the melody [sorta] fit using one particular roll. When looking at those tabs take a close look to see where & how the roll gets interrupted to bring out the melody.
Take a look at the tab for the House of the Rising Sun on this page to give you an idea how far you can take the mixing 'em up thing:
http://haruteq.com/t-bvmain.htm
Bart.

*may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion*
free tabs: http://haruteq.com
free MP3's http://BanjoAddiction.com

BanjoDiva - Posted - 02/05/2007:  17:33:29


Mel-Bay's "Deluxe Complete Banjo Method" by Neil Griffith has a page with 9 basic rolls on it. Ross Nickerson's "Banjo Encyclopedia" also has a nice set of rolls, and then of course you can always go straight to the source -- Earl Scruggs and the 5 String Banjo.

Regards,
Reid
BanjoDiva (which refers more to my attidude than my aptitude at this point!)
RK R-80 #67

pstroud1 - Posted - 02/05/2007:  20:28:58


Thank you, thank you ,thank you Ralph for starting this thread. I won't bore you with the details but you'll see them if you read my thread [I can't believe it]



Paul

swooper - Posted - 02/05/2007:  21:22:14


I have been practicing rolls right from the start and I think it is starting to pay off with my right hand , I realized how important the rt hand was while watching Berry Abernathy warm up I was watching him from 5 feet away and I thought to my self SELF check out his right hand .

Chuck in kansas

Pickin in the Yukon - Posted - 02/06/2007:  04:18:25


I've been working on rolls as well, have devoted at least 10 minutes a session. Wow, does my backwards roll suck. The rest I'm doing ok with but, jeepers!!!

I've noticed some improvement in the rest of my practice though, and I think it's attributable to the roll practice.

Kevin and his banjo - Posted - 02/06/2007:  08:15:09


I am trying to learn this as well. Thanks for the comments.

Kevin

Myra - Posted - 02/06/2007:  11:05:00


Rolls are the skeleton.

I practice playing rolls to make sure I am hitting each string properly. My fingers tend to hit the string I which I'm not aiming for. My fingers tend to have a mind of its own. They tend to either miss the strings I I'm trying to aim for or they hit the wrong strings which is frustrating.

Rolls help me to accent notes better, help me with rhythm, timing and chord changes.

Myra

PIGEONS ARE DOVES. DOVES ARE PIGEONS.


Edited by - Myra on 02/06/2007 11:06:01

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