Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/73529
R Fox - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:35:32
Hey all. I'm sure that this topic has appeared before, but I will bring it up again. I can play a song at home that my teacher gave me and I just barely mess up on it, but when I sit down with him and he says play the song - I just really mess it up. I mean, its almost like I can't get started and when I do, I'm all thumbs. But if he gets distracted by something, maybe a phone call or something, and I know he's not focusing on me, I can play it pretty well, even if he is still sitting next to me. This is for most of the stuff that I play, and some of those songs I can play pretty darn well at home - or should I say when no one is watching. Any suggestions. I really need to lick this. Ross - Dalton, GA
By the way, my teacher is very, very good, and is also very personal. I have no issues with him whatsoever. In fact, I am ticked pink to have him teaching me. He is highly regarded by all, and me.
Ross Fox
wannabepicker - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:37:30
i look forward to your responses, as i too suffer from this. i get tired of telling my teacher that "i don't really suck this bad at home."
"it has been said that i need to play twice as fast, which i guess means i am playing half-fast"
Recording King #98
Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:42:12
I think almost every beginner has this problem. I know I did. I had a great teacher and when I got in front of him my hands froze, my mind went blank and I just was awful. He was nice, understanding, said he wouldn't bite (which didn't really help).
What can be done about this? Probably not much. Time and experience will help. Self-confidence will also help. But, these things take time, effort and practice, practice, practice.
One thing you can do to keep the butterflies away is to tape yourself while practicing. When you first turn on that tape recorder, you'll find the fingers will fumble and the mind will not work. Keep at it and it WILL get better.
I did the above: recorded myself practicing and one time I actually took the recording to my teacher and said, "Listen to this and tell me what you think." He did and he said, "not bad at all, who is it?" I told him, "That's me when I'm not playing in front of you." We both got a laugh out of that and eventually, I COULD play in front of him.
Of course, having Alan Munde in the room next to me really didn't help my picking, either!
Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo
flange5st - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:43:23
....it's just a stress issue that you will work through.......we've all been there one way or another...I bet if you ask your teacher, he/she would say the same thing....Peace
joeyd - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:46:51
Man...it's an epedemic! I have a Tony the Tiger G-R-E-A-T teacher and I can get in a couple of good licks every once in a while but whenever we try to kick one off it's death by Banjo!
He keeps telling me it will pass so I plan to just follow Earl's original recipe: repeat 1M times. Hang in there, this too shall pass...
joeyd
pikinmomof6 - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:47:28
Ok I have this SAME problem. So what I do is I put my mind in a safe place by closing my eyes when I play. So I practice at home with my eyes closed thinking about the notes and how they feel. I do this after I have mastered the song. So when I go play the song for my teacher I close my eyes and focus on those notes. SOmtimes the notes draw a picture of a river or a cabin and that is what I focus on while I play. Hope that helps
Family & Friends with a dash of music and n old fashioned moon. Karen
BanjoJohnny - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:52:23
A year ago when I started taking guitar lessons, I told my teacher that every week. He replied that all of his students tell him the same thing. He said that several of the instructors are going to have a t-shirt made that says: Honestly, I can play it at home".
The last few lessons on the guitar I have noticed a difference.
It is odd in that with the banjo lessons, I really don't care when I make a mistake.... I go right on. Different instructor too. But then I just flat out have more fun on the banjo and it is a joy no matter where I am.
Johnny
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.
BanjoJohnny - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:53:52
A year ago when I started taking guitar lessons, I told my teacher that every week. He replied that all of his students tell him the same thing. He said that several of the instructors are going to have a t-shirt made that says: Honestly, I can play it at home".
The last few lessons on the guitar I have noticed a difference.
It is odd in that with the banjo lessons, I really don't care when I make a mistake.... I go right on. Different instructor too. But then I just flat out have more fun on the banjo and it is a joy no matter where I am.
Johnny
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.
Andy K - Posted - 01/31/2007: 16:57:41
I used (notice past tense) to tell my teacher the same thing. He responded that he hears the same thing from all of his students and all of them are right. It just takes some time to get used to it. I am sure he/she understands. The only advice I can give is to keep playing in front of people. It gets easier.
Andy
larushka - Posted - 01/31/2007: 17:03:47
Been there done that and occasionally STILL do that. It's mostly a matter of getting comfortable. I konw it's so simple to say, but sometimes, SO hard to do. "It's mind over matter". Time and repeatition will ease the anxiety and you will eventually not even think about it.
eagleisland - Posted - 01/31/2007: 17:15:00
Heck, dude, you think it's a problem with your teacher, wait til you start going to jams! 8->
Seriously, it happens to all of us noobs. Part of it, imo, is performance anxiety of a sort; there can also be a functional cause. Case in point: last few weeks I've been working on a tune I love called Big Sciota. Finally got it to where I could pick it cleanly and at the right speed, consistently, when practicing.
But playing it for my teacher was almost impossible. Why? Because I wanted to hear it against a guitar, not having done so yet, and that extra instrument really messed me up. Instead of hearing what I was doing, I was also hearing what HE was doing. When he stopped playing, I could do it just fine.
I find that I play best when I'm NOT absolutely concentrating - when I turn my mind off and let the music flow. It takes a LOT of practice to get to that point. And it takes experience playing with others to get to the point where you can just let it happen. But stick with it - because it will.
eagleisland
Learning the banjo: It's a process, not an event!
pickercymru - Posted - 01/31/2007: 17:22:13
Never having had a teacher I didn't get this problem - but I got it when I played infront of anyone and also when I recorded what I was doing.
I dont get it when I play in a jam situation even if my buddy insists on recording everything. We just get in the zone where nothing but a bum note gets in the way of what we are doing.
I believe that this level of concentration is necessary. When playing in front of teacher you are concentrating on his/her reaction and not what you are playing i.e you do not give yourself the necessary level of concentration to carry it off.
Above I liked the idea of playing with eyes closed that is really good stuff.
R.
Let Ol' Tenbrooks run!!
Harry - Posted - 01/31/2007: 17:30:27
Oh yes I recognise that. It's not easy for me, not being an English speaker, to explain but let me try: it works according a pattern:
situation - thoughts - emotions - action
situation: I'll have to fly
thoughts: the plane might crash (not very helpful thoughts)
emotions: fear
action: not flying
If you can change the negative thoughts, the outcome will be different
situation: I'll have to fly
thoughts: flying is much saver than driving a car (helpful thoughts)
emotions: ok still a bit scary but I drove a car to the airport
action: I'll take the risk
(And it really worked for me!)
You could apply the same to banjo playing before a teacher or an audience.
When playing before and audience I'll remind myself that probably 99.99% of the audience will never notice when I make a mistake.
(And that's more helpfull than thinking: now they know I'm a lousy player
We tune because we care (Doc Watson)
Edited by - Harry on 01/31/2007 17:36:04
stellingbelle - Posted - 01/31/2007: 17:49:43
As a banjo teacher I can tell you that what you are going thru is a common occurence. I have students tell me that all the time, and to be honest I said the same thing to my teacher when I was learning. What I have found is if I simply turn my back to them (I am fortunate enough to teach at JDMC, and the room I teach in has two pickin' gliders, one which swivels, that is the one I set in) but if I turn my back to them they can play. If you are having trouble (and it is usually at the beginning of the lesson) then ask you instructor if he can try turning his back to you. As soon as you play the song the butterflies will go and then he/she can have you play it again if he/she needs to watch you play it.
Danielg - Posted - 01/31/2007: 18:02:19
Talk to your dog like you would your teacher (NOT the other way around)
Work in what you're saying with the dog and then play her a piece.
Pick on the front porch when the kids are getting off the bus.
Go to a park and play a couple rolls with people walking around you.
Andy K - Posted - 01/31/2007: 18:13:49
play while picturing your teacher naked...
uh, NO.
gibson1933 - Posted - 01/31/2007: 19:18:14
Ha ha! That would NEVER work! My students would PUKE! HAHAHAHAHA! Seriously......it is as you have all said, it is something that you BOTH have to work through, both you AND the teacher. A "good" teacher will realize what's going on and work to find a way to minimize the discomfort to the student. As a teacher.....I HAVE to see and hear what a student is doing so I can help him/her. Some of the things I use to try to distract them are turning my back, closing my eyes (although I DO "peek" when they aren't looking so I can check out their hand position!) make an excuse of going in the other room to get a drink, go to the bathroom, etc......and these things WORK! Because as soon as they "forget" about me being around......they play like they SHOULD, and I get to evaluate the "true" performance level. Just try to remember..........they are there for YOU, and they really WANT you to do well and learn.......I know that for my own students, I always tell them, "I want this for you more than YOU even do!" I really want them to do well and succeed. So........it even works, sometimes! Ha ha! But I keep after them to just relax and play........and eventually, they do. You will, too! Just my opinion.............
Dick Brown
Bluegrass - Posted - 01/31/2007: 19:38:10
Hmmm. Never had your problem with my teacher. I play better when he plays along, because he's right on his timing. But....., I have been playing in front of people a lot for a couple years now. When I started, I would be scared stiff. 
My knees would shake, I would feel like my stomache was falling out. Now, no big deal, I do it a lot, and if I mess up, I just lauph about it. I think evryone has this problem when they start to play in front of others.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Edited by - Bluegrass on 01/31/2007 19:39:04
stellingbelle - Posted - 01/31/2007: 19:46:02
quote:
Originally posted by gibson1933
A "good" teacher will realize what's going on and work to find a way to minimize the discomfort to the student. Just try to remember..........they are there for YOU, and they really WANT you to do well and learn.......I know that for my own students, I always tell them, "I want this for you more than YOU even do!" I really want them to do well and succeed.
Once again Dick is right on the money. We, as teachers, do want this very badly for you. Nothing makes me prouder than to have a student rip up a song...I have one student in particular that will far surpass the teacher as a banjo player and I can't wait to see him playing with a band (That's you Grasshopper). This particular student has known me most of my life and to tell the truth there was not a more nervous student on the planet at the beginning. He has over come that fear and absolutely slays me most of the time. What most students don't realize is that the teacher is human, we have ALL been right where you are. We have all stunk it up in front of someone we wanted badly to impress, and we lived to tell about it
Your teacher will need to watch you to evaluate your technique...don't be nervous...if we can't watch you we can't tell you how to be more efficent..thus shortening your learning curve. Take a deep breath, leave the nerves at the door, pick up your banjo and don't think about the teacher, if you have a good teacher the only thing you should hear from them is positive re-enforcement.
T.
Edited by - stellingbelle on 01/31/2007 19:47:20
fixdent - Posted - 01/31/2007: 20:10:44
quote:
play while picturing your teacher naked...
What if his banjo teacher is a guy.....
--
Gordon
BanjoJohnny - Posted - 01/31/2007: 20:15:12
" play while picturing your teacher naked..."
I have a great teacher but he is not pretty.
No, I am not going to change teachers. My wife would ask me why I am taking a lesson every day. 
Johnny
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.
Jukka - Posted - 01/31/2007: 20:27:22
its funny, im the same way banjo johnny, when i played guitar i wouldnt play for anyone, when i had a lesson i would freeze up, now with the banjo(i dont take lessons) but i am ready and willing to play for anyone that want to(or doesnt want to) listen, i guess i just found my nitch, gatta love that, but if your still nervous, i suppose i may be too in front of a professional, then time will cure all im sure. Good luck
BanjerKen - Posted - 01/31/2007: 22:40:12
quote:
Originally posted by stellingbelle
As a banjo teacher I can tell you that what you are going thru is a common occurence. I have students tell me that all the time, and to be honest I said the same thing to my teacher when I was learning. What I have found is if I simply turn my back to them (I am fortunate enough to teach at JDMC, and the room I teach in has two pickin' gliders, one which swivels, that is the one I set in) but if I turn my back to them they can play. If you are having trouble (and it is usually at the beginning of the lesson) then ask you instructor if he can try turning his back to you. As soon as you play the song the butterflies will go and then he/she can have you play it again if he/she needs to watch you play it.
I just had my first lesson with Stellingbelle and I must be one of her smarter students because when I couldn't even get Cripple Creek started she turned around and faced the other direction but that didn't fool me cause I knew she was still there.
All joking aside I think it did help because I finally got going and we had a great lesson.
Thanks Tina
stellingbelle - Posted - 02/01/2007: 09:26:48
quote:
Originally posted by BanjerKen
she turned around and faced the other direction but that didn't fool me cause I knew she was still there.
All joking aside I think it did help because I finally got going and we had a great lesson.
Thanks Tina
Hey Thanks Ken...you did fine after the butterflies settled down
ole blackie - Posted - 02/01/2007: 15:24:41
My students also suffer from this. I cant tell you how many times a week I hear "I play this perfect at home". I get them some tea or coffee, tell them to relax, and then I assure them that if they train wreck, soooo what. Its OK. Also, a good laugh always helps calm them down. Maybe I'll show them some of Tim's comments on the HO!
Wil
..."The Lord opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble". I Peter 5:5
R Fox - Posted - 02/01/2007: 16:42:15
Thanks for all of the replys everyone. It really helps to know that this is a common problem. I will digest what each of you have said, and work at it. Ain't it great to have such a huge group of friends to talk with and learn how to play the banjo. I think so.
Ross Fox
BanjoGeek - Posted - 02/01/2007: 16:59:37
quote:
Originally posted by BanjerKen
I just had my first lesson with Stellingbelle and I must be one of her smarter students because when I couldn't even get Cripple Creek started she turned around and faced the other direction but that didn't fool me cause I knew she was still there.
All joking aside I think it did help because I finally got going and we had a great lesson.
Thanks Tina
Did you picture her naked?
Just Kidding Tina
My laptop has five strings.
Chuck
Badjer - Posted - 02/01/2007: 17:48:21
I have the same problem. I only see my instructor for 30 minutes once per month. Last month was terrible. I couldn't play anything in front of him and actually dashed out two minutes early as I was so frustrated by the experience. I've been taking lessons with him for around 6 months now and thought I was over that as the lesson the month before went really well. I have my next lesson next Tuesday, I'm hoping I can just relax and show him what I have been working on without internally hyperventilating. For me it all comes from a desire to impress him. I want him to think I'm good, so he'll want to continue teaching me. I would think it would get really boring and frustrating teaching a student who doesn't make advances. I KNOW I HAVE MADE ADVANCES, it's just internal paranoia that they aren't enough...for whatever reason.
Thanks for listening Doctor. Where should I send the check?
Scott Baumann
Sun Prairie, WI
2005 Gold Star GF-100W
2004 Rogue Travel
ole blackie - Posted - 02/01/2007: 18:39:48
Badger, if your teacher is worth his salt, he will be able to tell how much you have been working, regardless of your performance. Also, dont worry about him still wanting to teach you. All any good teacher wants to see is desire, not ability. Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog. A good teacher will see your heart and desire and thats what keeps teachers motivated!
Wil
..."The Lord opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble". I Peter 5:5
bladekeeper - Posted - 02/01/2007: 20:50:41
quote:
Originally posted by stellingbelle
...I have one student in particular that will far surpass the teacher as a banjo player and I can't wait to see him playing with a band (That's you Grasshopper). This particular student has known me most of my life and to tell the truth there was not a more nervous student on the planet at the beginning. He has over come that fear and absolutely slays me most of the time.
T.
Yeah, but I was nervous cause I remember you from High School and I thought you'd beat me up if I messed up! That's a great motivator! Just joking! And, thank you for that very generous assessment!
Being nervous in front of your instructor is common, not just with playing music. I used to train young airmen on loading bombs and missiles on fighter jets. They'd get so nervous and scared they'd drop stuff right and left. And I'm a pretty nice guy! Must have been the missiles and bombs....
Bryan
"You can't ride home on a bowl of goat. I've always said that." - Ron White
spiritwolf7 - Posted - 02/01/2007: 20:58:27
Well, I can't comment on playing in fornt of a teacher but I sure as we're sittin' here had the same problem when I plugged a mike into my PC and tried recording myself playing for the first time.
ARGH!
Suffice it to say that you won't see me posting anything soon.
LOL
SpiritWolf
BanjoLaw - Posted - 02/01/2007: 22:18:02
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem. I usually try to practice for about 30 minutes prior to my lesson. I feel like I'm doing pretty good but as soon as the lesson starts it's as if it's the first time I've ever picked the thing up. Hopefully I won't suffer from this forever.
"Just jump in where you can Sheriff and hang on!" Briscoe Darling
JDutch - Posted - 02/01/2007: 22:52:37
Know the feeling, although I am a resident newbie--on my third lesson! but dying to learn!! I am excited to get to my next lesson but once I show up my nerves go to hell. My teach says to relax and enjoy--guess that is what it is all about--ENJOY
AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 02/02/2007: 13:00:00
It happens to everyone; as your confidence level increases, the problem will diminish.
Also, I find that the more often we do these discomforting tasks, the less onerous they become.
Ad3
Westvon - Posted - 02/03/2007: 01:37:14
Most teachers (myself included) totally understand the intimidation factor in all of this, and you need to realize that everyone had thier day in the barrel, so-to-speak. Like anything else, just keep at it and you WILL overcome this problem. It's as natural as anything can be.
David Russell
http://www.hotbanjolicks.com
http://www.myspace.com/westvon
LittleGoomba - Posted - 02/03/2007: 08:48:37
I'm about 8 or so months into lessons, and had been getting frustrated. "I _know_ I can play this better than I just did!" Then I started recording myself. Really paying attention to what I was doing without my instructor, just as closely as I would pay attention to myself when my instructor was listening. The results were interesting:
I played just as bad without him near as I did with him. The difference? If I missed a note, I would stop, and start over. I would repeat measures. The song would be pretty much unbearable. I did ask my instructor to listen to a recording of me alone, but honestly, it took several takes.
It took (is taking) a great deal of effort to get beyond the hiccup syndrome I have. Miss a note and repeat the measure. It's taken discussions with my instructor and a concentrated effort to play through mistakes. My most recent lesson was fun, because I did make LOTS of mistakes, but plowed right on through. To me, the only recognized aspect of the songs I was playing was the cadence, at the time. But listening to the lesson a few days later? I sounded pretty good. I couldn't even hear the mistakes I know I made.
Morale - In front of your instructor, you've got one shot. On your own, you can reload and aim again until you get it right.
budforte - Posted - 02/05/2007: 12:00:51
I have had the same thing all along. However something that puzzled me happened over the weekend. I went to my instructors house so he could help me put spikes in two of my banjos. I take lessons with him in a small room in a music store. While he was working on my banjo, he gave me one of his to pick. I was doing just fine. None of the jitters or jelly hand that I experience in the lesson room. I was able to show him that I am not as club fangered as I have shown in lessons. Go figure.
sprocter - Posted - 02/06/2007: 01:27:25
Yep happened to me when I first started pickin' I couldnt do it in front of anyone. Its just one of those things that the more you do it the easier it gets. I love playing in front of people now and it does not bother me at all.
Shane
Shop Smart, shot S-Mart.
