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banjonz - Posted - 11/13/2025: 11:07:43
I have just set up and restrung an old but beautiful condition English 5 string which I cannot ID as it has absolutely no markings on it anywhere. It doesn't really matter though. What I find strange is the TP look original to the banjo but is designed to take loop end steel strings. The slot for the strings are two narrow for gut and ball end ones really cannot fit although I had to install one. The loop need to be quite big to fit.
Any thoughts?
Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/13/2025: 12:08:46
You seem to be presuming two things.
1) The tailpiece is original to the banjo.
2) The tailpiece is for a 5 string.
The first I cannot answer as you have only posted the two images.
The second I can answer, as your tailpiece is for a 7 string banjo. The gut strings will have a stopper knot tied in the end and will slip into the notch, one for each of the 7 strings.
I believe that this tailpiece is found on Temlett banjos.
banjonz - Posted - 11/13/2025: 14:25:14
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
You seem to be presuming two things.
1) The tailpiece is original to the banjo.
2) The tailpiece is for a 5 string.
The first I cannot answer as you have only posted the two images.
The second I can answer, as your tailpiece is for a 7 string banjo. The gut strings will have a stopper knot tied in the end and will slip into the notch, one for each of the 7 strings.
I believe that this tailpiece is found on Temlett banjos.
Just uploaded photos.
In regards to the gut strings, to my eye there doesn't appear to be enough room in the slots for them unless they are incredibly thin. The pot is 12 1/2".
Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/13/2025: 15:03:39
Thin compared to presentist ideas of strings. Keep in mind that packaged sets of Nylgut polyester are nearly twice as thick as period strings.
The average first and fifth gut of the late 1880s and early 1890s was .019” at the heaviest, and some as light as .016”
deke46 - Posted - 11/13/2025: 16:36:54
Wasn`t the Dulcet a John Grey model ?
Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/13/2025: 16:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by deke46
Wasn`t the Dulcet a John Grey model ?
Yes, the 7 string tailpiece did not come on that banjo.
banjonz - Posted - 11/13/2025: 19:13:40
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by deke46
Wasn`t the Dulcet a John Grey model ?
Yes, the 7 string tailpiece did not come on that banjo.
That wouldn't surprise me. The TP looks as if it belongs because of the colour of the nickel. The banjo is in incredible condition with virtually no wear. One photo I didn't get is the armrest embossing pattern which are images of holly leaves.
I did a net search on Grey banjos and I do think it is a Grey. Well spotted.
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 11/14/2025: 11:25:48
I have a Dulcet banjo with a similar ivoroid lozenge which is also labelled "Douglas and Co."
Mine is very similar but not quite identical to yours.
To me it looks like a George Matthew neck profile and peg head shape. (Also the pot on mine is steam bent Oak - which I've also seen on Matthew banjos.)
Mine doesn't have a Matthew stamp on it, but I did find a Dulcet on line that said it was labelled Matthew under the dowel.
Douglas and Co were retailers I think?
There are members on here who can probably tell you more ....
My Dulcet was an eBay purchase which arrived with a broken dowel. So I got a full refund with no need to return it. Dowel fixing is beyond me though....
banjonz - Posted - 11/14/2025: 13:23:14
quote:
Originally posted by Andyrhydycreuau
I have a Dulcet banjo with a similar ivoroid lozenge which is also labelled "Douglas and Co."
Mine is very similar but not quite identical to yours.
To me it looks like a George Matthew neck profile and peg head shape. (Also the pot on mine is steam bent Oak - which I've also seen on Matthew banjos.)
Mine doesn't have a Matthew stamp on it, but I did find a Dulcet on line that said it was labelled Matthew under the dowel.
Douglas and Co were retailers I think?
There are members on here who can probably tell you more ....
My Dulcet was an eBay purchase which arrived with a broken dowel. So I got a full refund with no need to return it. Dowel fixing is beyond me though....
My archives state that Matthews was a wholesale and retail maker. Not only did he sell a wide range of instruments bearing his own name, but made instruments for other wholesale and retail firms (such as Ball Beavon, Rose Brothers, J. Thibouville, Lamy & Co, Rose, Morris & Co,) to brand as their own. Ity looks like Douglas & Co can be added to the list).
