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kabrijj - Posted - 10/15/2025: 07:52:08
Hey there folks!
Long time lurker here, and I finally have a chance to post -- apologies for it being another "help me ID this banjo" thread ;-)
I picked up this nice looking Irish tenor this past weekend. There are no words, stamps, stickers, or any other identifying marks to be found, which is curious. Even on the backside of the dowel there's nothing (but dust!).
It's a 19-3/4" scale, 11" pot, has a wooden nut, the fingerboard appears to be painted (not a true dark wood like rosewood or ebony), and it needs a new bridge (at the very least!). The bridge has about 10 string slots, so my guess is someone attempted to retrofit a 5-string bridge. I'll replace that when I replace the strings. It's not currently tuned to pitch, but the neck appears to be mostly straight.
Otherwise, the thumbscrew behind the tailpiece is broken, there's some spots where the paint/stain on the fretboard has worn or chipped away, a few chips from the sides of the wooden nut (but it still should be functional), and a small piece of binding has chipped as well.
I'm thinking it should come back to life relatively easily -- time will tell! I've owned an old Harmony tenor before, but this will be my first "shorter" scale Irish tenor. I'm just a little outside of my comfort zone, but that's part of the fun, right? ;-) I've already got a new bridge and an appropriate set of strings on the way... at the moment the tailpiece having the broken thumb screw doesn't concern me too much, but we'll see how it goes after a setup.
All that being said, any insight as to who might have made this, or when, or really any other info would sure be appreciated!
I'll add some more pics below.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/15/2025: 07:57:02
Here's a few more pics, but please let me know if any additional photos/angles would help.
tdennis - Posted - 10/15/2025: 20:00:50
This strikes me as a Slingerland instrument. What is the exact diameter of the head ?
kabrijj - Posted - 10/16/2025: 11:06:24
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
This strikes me as a Slingerland instrument. What is the exact diameter of the head ?
As best I can tell, it's right at 11" diameter.
That being said, I plan to take it apart a bit for a deep clean this weekend, and will measure again then.
Edited by - kabrijj on 10/16/2025 11:07:22
banjonz - Posted - 10/16/2025: 16:16:26
quote:
Originally posted by kabrijj
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
This strikes me as a Slingerland instrument. What is the exact diameter of the head ?
As best I can tell, it's right at 11" diameter.
That being said, I plan to take it apart a bit for a deep clean this weekend, and will measure again then.
Many Slingerland banjos were 10 3/4" rims but there were 11" ones made.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/16/2025: 16:18:19
Apologies! I forgot to add those additional pics of the sides here.
I'll take some more when I clean this up as well.
Edited by - kabrijj on 10/16/2025 16:19:08
tdennis - Posted - 10/16/2025: 17:52:21
That tone ring does look like a little wonder type. It seems to have features of several makers, but w/ no markings, I'm stumped.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/18/2025: 11:12:06
All right, got this baby disassembled on my bench and have some more pictures to share.
Mildly interesting: there's a spot on the inside of the dowel which almost looks like it might have been where a sticker or label once was... but I suppose it could have just been some uneven finish, too.
Forgive my ignorance, but is this a Little Wonder tone ring? It seems like it is to me, but I'm still learning ;-)
And then, what might be the best way to clean this and the hoop? My initial thought was fine steel wool, WD-40 and light pressure.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/18/2025: 11:34:57
The head sure looks like it's dead on 11" to my eyes.
Nothing written on the head, but there is a "Waverly E2" engraved into the inside of the hoop.
Andy FitzGibbon - Posted - 10/19/2025: 05:04:26
That is a Bacon FF tone ring, or is at least made in that style. There were reproductions available.
OldFrets - Posted - 10/19/2025: 05:34:16
It's a Slingerland tone ring, perhaps copied from Bacon but used extensively by Slingerland.
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/20/2025: 21:04:40
The tone ring was made by Waverly and used by more than one maker. I might have a 4 stringed version of that Waverly tailpiece in a box but don’t know if it’s chrome plated like yours or nickel. Take pressure off that screw and if it doesn’t move, hit it with a spritz of WD40 and wait a day or two to break the corrosion before removing it. Finding a chrome plated adjusting screw will be unlikely but a stainless steel screw shouldn’t be hard.
I’m assuming that, with metal strings, those friction pegs will get old quickly. Nothing wrong with a set of Gotoh on there. Measure the headstock thickness before ordering.
Those friction tuners might have springs in them. If so, they are desirable in certain gut/nylon/Nylgut banjo circles.
deke46 - Posted - 10/21/2025: 17:16:38
Just from the tension hooks and nuts I`d guess a Lyon and Healey origin.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/21/2025: 17:32:22
The Chicago makers: Lyon & Healey, Slingerland, Stromberg-Voisenet/Kay, were distinctly incestuous.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/22/2025: 06:36:14
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloran
The tone ring was made by Waverly and used by more than one maker. I might have a 4 stringed version of that Waverly tailpiece in a box but don’t know if it’s chrome plated like yours or nickel. Take pressure off that screw and if it doesn’t move, hit it with a spritz of WD40 and wait a day or two to break the corrosion before removing it. Finding a chrome plated adjusting screw will be unlikely but a stainless steel screw shouldn’t be hard.
I’m assuming that, with metal strings, those friction pegs will get old quickly. Nothing wrong with a set of Gotoh on there. Measure the headstock thickness before ordering.
Those friction tuners might have springs in them. If so, they are desirable in certain gut/nylon/Nylgut banjo circles.
Mike,
Should I be concerned about too much tension from steel strings on the neck?
My plan now is to get is strung with some Irish tenor strings (12-36) and tune GDAE. The wooden nut popped off fairly easily, so I figure I may as well clean the nut slot and make a new & better bone nut (especially since that wooden one wasn't seated well to begin with).
The current tailpiece is absolutely a relatively modern replacement, but if it's functional I reckon it'll do for the time being. The broken thumbscrew came out just fine (it's a metric thread, as further evidence the tailpiece is not original), and I plan to find a workable replacement for it -- either just a simple phillips head bolt, maybe a socket cap head bolt... we'll see what the hardware store has. Like I said, as long as it's functional I can live with it for now.
Once I get strings on and everything dialed in, I'll evaluate it and go from there. Maybe a new tailpiece (if I can find a moderately priced nickel plated 4-string, it might at least look more appropriate), maybe better tuners too. We shall see how everything looks (and sounds!) once things are up to pitch.
Edited by - kabrijj on 10/22/2025 06:46:30
kabrijj - Posted - 10/22/2025: 06:44:58
Thanks for the input, all! It's definitely given me a few things to think about.
After some closer inspection and cleaning, I see now I was wrong about the fretboard being painted. Initially, I saw some spots of wear where the wood had turned a lighter color, and assumed it was painted like an old Harmony or the like. But after a bit of conditioning the color came right back, the wood grain revealed itself a bit more, and surprisingly the large light tan spot near the 14th fret got a LOT darker as well! I'm now thinking that tan spot was somebody's attempt to repair a gouge in the wood at some point during this banjo's journey... not sure what it's made out of or why it got considerably darker with some lemon oil, but it did. As the oil dried the spot came back a bit, but it's not as obvious as it was, so I'll take it.
I'm also pretty happy to note that everything came off, cleaned up and (maybe most importantly) went back on smooth and easily! Now I've got some old sloppy glue to clean out of the nut slot, and once the strings get here I'll see how it all goes back together.
DSmoke - Posted - 10/22/2025: 08:53:39
GDAE tuning has a lower tension than CGDA tuning and this banjo was orignally strung with steel strings so no worry there. The fingerboard is probably dyed "pearwood". I have dyed them back with Fiebing's Black Leather Dye, probably got that tip here long ago.
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/22/2025: 11:58:05
quote:
GDAE tuning has a lower tension than CGDA tuning and this banjo was orignally strung with steel strings so no worry there. The fingerboard is probably dyed "pearwood". I have dyed them back with Fiebing's Black Leather Dye, probably got that tip here long ago.
Agreed.
There's no set of GDAE strings that match the tension of the original tuning.
It does appear to be a mystery wood fretboard—without having it in hand, I'm not ready to assume. There were a number of ways to turn it black back in the day, some harmful causing decomposition a hundred years later. Since it isn't crumbling, I would dye it and move on. BTW, ebony fretboards were normally dyed as well. Pure black ebony was always a premium material.
I had a summer job in a fiddle shop in 1970 and was taught how to plane fingerboards. The first time I worked on a doublebass and uncovered a large brown streak, I thought that I'd ruined the board. The others had a good laugh at my inexperience, out came the Fiebing's and all was well.
kabrijj - Posted - 10/25/2025: 05:26:29
Yep, it is absolutely a dyed wood fretboard. When I was scraping glue out of the nut slot, I took some of the outer layer of wood off in a few places to reveal a lighter color underneath. Still not sure what the wood is exactly, but I don't reckon it makes too much difference.
At any rate, here's a few pics after the resurrection. After some elbow grease, a new bridge and new nut -- lo and behold, it plays and sounds really good! Well, with the caveat that it's *ME* playing it! ;-)
Weighing in at a nice 4.768 pounds, the neck is nice & straight, and while the action might be a touch on the high side at the bridge that's easily enough to adjust once things settle in a bit more. I ended up with a black socket head cap bolt for the tailpiece, and it doesn't look too out of place. Plus it's sort of adjustable by hand, at least part way.
There is a faint line around the bottom side of the rim in many places, which makes me wonder if there was originally a resonator on this one. Maybe the maker's badge was on the resonator? Hard to know...
I've always liked old gear finds like this, and trying to learn what stories the instruments would tell if they could. In any case, this one is now in much better shape than where I found it!
