dcollier - Posted - 07/07/2025:  17:07:42

I was at a jam this past weekend and a guy playing with us had the long bar and I asked him if he liked it. He said he uses it for a reference of where he’s capoed. He said if he used spikes he wouldn’t be able to know where he’s fretted. Any opinions before I put one or the other on my banjo? Thanks

banjonz - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:12:37

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Spikes are less intrusive and don't really interfere with thumb fretting the 5th string. The long bar Shubb allows for higher capoing while still playing in G fingering (ie: Matterhorn - capo 7 Key D). To achieve this with spikes, then an extra one need to be installed on the 12th fret. It is all down to personal preference.

cottontop - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:23:47

I personally prefer the Shubb long bar. I have the Shubb on all of my banjos and it never gets in the way. When I did use spikes, I found that it was sometimes difficult to spike and unspike the 5th string quickly in a jam situation. The Shubb is very fast and easy to use.
Joe

Cockrum_Studios - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:45:50

I really don't like the Shubb bar. I have one on one of my first banjos (Deering Sierra) and I kept loosing the screw and the tuning changes some depending on how much you screw it down. I prefer spikes but the little pyramid / wedge things are a decent alternative also (you can 3d print ones that dont change your pitch when installed)

Edited by - Cockrum_Studios on 07/07/2025 18:52:30

Cockrum_Studios - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:46:56

Here is an example of the 3d printed ones. thingiverse.com/thing:3753076

banjonz - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:48:56

quote:

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Originally posted by cottontop

I personally prefer the Shubb long bar. I have the Shubb on all of my banjos and it never gets in the way. When I did use spikes, I found that it was sometimes difficult to spike and unspike the 5th string quickly in a jam situation. The Shubb is very fast and easy to use.

Joe

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When I played banjo for Steve Martin's Brightstar musical through a local production company here, I had to do quick key changes in some songs. It utilized a glider guitar capo sitting above the nut. I had spikes on the banjo and practiced heaps quickly slipping the 5th string under the correct spike. It was very hit and miss. I purchased a long Shubb 5th capo with the intentions of modifying it to facilitate quick release and slide instead of using the thumb screw, which slowed things down. I planned it out on paper but never started it. 

banjonz - Posted - 07/07/2025:  18:58:21

quote:

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Originally posted by Cockrum_Studios

Here is an example of the 3d printed ones. thingiverse.com/thing:3753076

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I made some from BIC pens. I rarely use them by have them if needed.

 

Old Hickory - Posted - 07/07/2025:  20:28:13

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

He said he uses it for a reference of where he’s capoed. He said if he used spikes he wouldn’t be able to know where he’s fretted.

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I use the capo and my short-term memory as a reference for or reminder of where I'm capoed. If I need the fifth string to provide that reference, I believe  I can see where the string is spiked just as easily as I'd see where it's held down by a sliding capo.

I don't like the feel of sliding capo rails. I've used spikes for over 50 years. I believe most banjo players use spikes.

But no one can tell you what you like.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 07/08/2025:  04:14:33

I've had both types on different banjos over the years. I much prefer the spikes. The long bar detracts from the looks of the banjo, at least in my opinion, and makes it difficult to fret the 5th string with my thumb. Spikes are almost invisible when looking at someone picking and are easy and quick.

As far as using a long bar for reference, that's why you have dots on the side of the banjo neck. To me, those are better and quicker points of reference after you get used to them.

Having said all that, it's personal preference so use whatever works best for you.

RB3 - Posted - 07/08/2025:  05:26:36

Spikes. That's what all the big guys use.

Culloden - Posted - 07/08/2025:  05:55:38

John Hartford, Peter Wernick, Allen Shelton, Doug Dillard, and Eddie Adcock are some pros who come to mind who are(were) known for using sliding capos.

Edited by - Culloden on 07/08/2025 06:00:13

Dean T - Posted - 07/08/2025:  06:03:52

I bought a very expensive used banjo years ago (Calico) which had a shub bar capo on it. I had never used one before, and couldn’t get used to it, especially as someone who frets the 5th a lot. The worst part was trying to match the binding color and filling the screw holes after removing it. I was also introduced to spikes by way of a used banjo, and for me, love them.

cottontop - Posted - 07/08/2025:  07:15:09

quote:

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Originally posted by Culloden

John Hartford, Peter Wernick, Allen Shelton, Doug Dillard, and Eddie Adcock are some pros who come to mind who are(were) known for using sliding capos.

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John Hartford used a sliding capo, and that's good enough for me.

Joe

cottontop - Posted - 07/08/2025:  07:29:21

There are sliding capos and there are sliding capos. The one that was on my Fender Artist when I bought it was awful. I don't know what it was called and I don't believe they are made anymore, but it consisted of a pin operated by a lever on a spring. The pin would hold the 5th string down, however it did not work very well. I replaced it with a Shubb slider and have since been a better man for it.
Joe

mrbook - Posted - 07/08/2025:  08:00:59

A banjo I played for many years had the Shubb capo and I really liked it. I kept the lever at the 7th fret, where I used it most, and it was very quick to put in place during a gig. I put one on my next banjo for that reason, but when I switched to a lighter banjo it came with spikes, and I have adapted to them. I think I would put spikes on a new banjo, but if I bought one with a Shubb I would happily use it again. Either one is fine.

Culloden - Posted - 07/08/2025:  08:26:38

quote:

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Originally posted by cottontop

There are sliding capos and there are sliding capos. The one that was on my Fender Artist when I bought it was awful. I don't know what it was called and I don't believe they are made anymore, but it consisted of a pin operated by a lever on a spring. The pin would hold the 5th string down, however it did not work very well. I replaced it with a Shubb slider and have since been a better man for it.

Joe

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I had a slider on my Martin Vega which was probably the same kind you had. It had a rail with a piece of wire wrapped into a spring that clipped around it and ended with a right angle covered by a piece of plastic tubing. (Gee, I hope that made sense.) Anyway, it was a real pain to use. The plastic piece would come off, the tension would not hold well so I would have to take the wire off and bend it, the fifth string always rattled and buzzed, etc.

Anyway, I started using spikes and have preferred them ever since. But I do have a Shubb on one of my banjos and I like it well enough that I haven't removed it. It does cover the dots on the binding but I took a Sharpie and made dots on the rail. If they wear off I can replace them easily.

cottontop - Posted - 07/08/2025:  09:00:18

Yes, the slider you are talking about is exactly the one I had. Your description is much better than mine. What a pain it was to use. The Shubb slider is a 100% improvement.
Joe

cottontop - Posted - 07/08/2025:  11:08:52

quote:

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Originally posted by banjonz

quote:

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Originally posted by Cockrum_Studios

Here is an example of the 3d printed ones. thingiverse.com/thing:3753076

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I made some from BIC pens. I rarely use them by have them if needed.

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When I taught banjo to kids in the JAM Program for the past three years at The Heritage Center in Townsend, Tennessee (I now live in Florida since March) I bought a large pack of Bic pens just to get the caps and made up a bunch of pen capos like the one you have pictured and gave each kid one. They worked great but I did have to replace one once in a while as being kids they would tend to lose them. (Come to think of it, adults tend to lose them too).

Joe

Bart Veerman - Posted - 07/08/2025:  22:22:16

quote:

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Originally posted by Culloden

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I had a slider on my Martin Vega which was probably the same kind you had. It had a rail with a piece of wire wrapped into a spring that clipped around it and ended with a right angle covered by a piece of plastic tubing. (Gee, I hope that made sense.) Anyway, it was a real pain to use. The plastic piece would come off, the tension would not hold well so I would have to take the wire off and bend it, the fifth string always rattled and buzzed, etc.

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Yeah, I've had a few of those over the years and they worked great. Well, except for the plastic tube/hose popping off to places where you couldn't find them anymore. No prob: them tubes/nozzle that come on some some spray/rattle cans work great and they really do stay put:

New red capo

The nozzle of a contact cleaner spray can

Jerry Hatrick - Posted - 07/09/2025:  01:10:55

I have spikes on one of my banjos (sliders on the others), and find the process of securing the string under the spikes a bit cumbersome sometimes. In particular, I need to use both hands, which risks dislodging or even dropping picks off the right hand. One band I was playing in, would often launch quickly into the next song (in a different key), and sometimes I found it easier to just play in say E than capo 2 to play out of D shapes. You could say that was good for expanding your fingerboard knowledge, etc but the further you get away from playing in the likes of G, C, and D, the less it tends to sound like a banjo and more like a slightly lame guitar.

BG Banjo - Posted - 07/09/2025:  06:43:13

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

I was at a jam this past weekend and a guy playing with us had the long bar and I asked him if he liked it. He said he uses it for a reference of where he’s capoed. He said if he used spikes he wouldn’t be able to know where he’s fretted. Any opinions before I put one or the other on my banjo? Thanks

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I have no experience with sliding capos, I have had spikes installed on all my banjos. So that brings me to the question, why would he not know where he is fretted? I mean, if I fret the seventh fret, I'm quite aware that the second fret is spiked. Sorry to be so dumb, maybe something is going over my head. 

Again, no experience with them, but they look like a lot of hardware just to do what a  spike will do. 

Culloden - Posted - 07/09/2025:  21:32:58

quote:

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Originally posted by Bart Veerman

quote:

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Originally posted by Culloden

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I had a slider on my Martin Vega which was probably the same kind you had. It had a rail with a piece of wire wrapped into a spring that clipped around it and ended with a right angle covered by a piece of plastic tubing. (Gee, I hope that made sense.) Anyway, it was a real pain to use. The plastic piece would come off, the tension would not hold well so I would have to take the wire off and bend it, the fifth string always rattled and buzzed, etc.

---

Yeah, I've had a few of those over the years and they worked great. Well, except for the plastic tube/hose popping off to places where you couldn't find them anymore. No prob: them tubes/nozzle that come on some some spray/rattle cans work great and they really do stay put:

 

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That is the same type I had on my Vega. I hadn't thought of using the spray can tube. I haven't seen that style of capo for a long time so I don't know if they're still being made. 

Paul R - Posted - 07/10/2025:  08:10:41

I have spikes on my main (open back) banjo, a Vega-Pittman slider on my second (resonator) banjo, a Shubb slider on another, and nothing on the other two. I'm fine with either spikes or sliders, since the situations I'm in don't require quick changes. (I did find the slider faster/more convenient at one of the jams.) Besides, if it's retuning a banjo you're dealing with, you'll probably be tuning more than just the fifth string.

I made guitar bridge pin capos but hardly ever used them. I also have an elastic capo to use on the old Orpheum I used to own - didn't want to mark up the banjo.

Fifth String Bridge Pin Capo

Fifth String Bridge Pin Capo

 

banjonz - Posted - 07/10/2025:  16:04:02

quote:

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Originally posted by Bart Veerman

quote:

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Originally posted by Culloden

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I had a slider on my Martin Vega which was probably the same kind you had. It had a rail with a piece of wire wrapped into a spring that clipped around it and ended with a right angle covered by a piece of plastic tubing. (Gee, I hope that made sense.) Anyway, it was a real pain to use. The plastic piece would come off, the tension would not hold well so I would have to take the wire off and bend it, the fifth string always rattled and buzzed, etc.

---

Yeah, I've had a few of those over the years and they worked great. Well, except for the plastic tube/hose popping off to places where you couldn't find them anymore. No prob: them tubes/nozzle that come on some some spray/rattle cans work great and they really do stay put:

 

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In  the 70's I installed one of those on my Bandwin ODE D. They were made in Japan back then and worked well. Decades later I obtained some from a supplier (Maybe Saga) overseas and they were rubbish. The bar bowed badly when capoing and was next to useless. I removed it and fitted spikes.

cottontop - Posted - 07/11/2025:  06:19:27

quote:

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Originally posted by BG Banjo

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

I was at a jam this past weekend and a guy playing with us had the long bar and I asked him if he liked it. He said he uses it for a reference of where he’s capoed. He said if he used spikes he wouldn’t be able to know where he’s fretted. Any opinions before I put one or the other on my banjo? Thanks

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I have no experience with sliding capos, I have had spikes installed on all my banjos. So that brings me to the question, why would he not know where he is fretted? I mean, if I fret the seventh fret, I'm quite aware that the second fret is spiked. Sorry to be so dumb, maybe something is going over my head. 

Again, no experience with them, but they look like a lot of hardware just to do what a  spike will do. 

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Yeah you might think that, until you actually install and use one.

Joe

Banjohighway - Posted - 07/17/2025:  02:01:17

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

I was at a jam this past weekend and a guy playing with us had the long bar and I asked him if he liked it. He said he uses it for a reference of where he’s capoed. He said if he used spikes he wouldn’t be able to know where he’s fretted. Any opinions before I put one or the other on my banjo? Thanks

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Neither is a good option. Try the Banjo Highway (Google) 5th string Capo. Far superior.

lesnyd - Posted - 07/17/2025:  05:32:13

I've always had spikes. Tried playing someone else's banjo with a slider and just plain couldn't play. That thing kept messing with my hand trying to slide up and down the neck. Can't stand them.

David M - Posted - 07/17/2025:  08:21:36

I've had my Shubb 5th string slider capo on my Gold Tone for over 3 decades now and use it most days for different songs. I had to replace the turn screw last year as the thread had worn, oddly, the fitting's thread is still ok with the new screw for now. I don't have any 5th string fretting issues when playing because I've never done it.. :-) Never seen let lone played a spiked banjo so couldn't comment but I'd need them fitted to every fret from the 6th to the 11th.

theronb - Posted - 07/17/2025:  08:48:06

I first started using the Shubb bar when I was playing with a band that backed up a sister vocal trio. They would choose the key depending on how they were feeling that day, sometimes oddball keys like F#. In order to keep up with their key changes during performances I found the Shubb was helpful. The sisters were delightful to play with but could be challenging.

David M - Posted - 07/17/2025:  08:55:32

quote:

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Originally posted by theronb

I first started using the Shubb bar when I was playing with a band that backed up a sister vocal trio. They would choose the key depending on how they were feeling that day, sometimes oddball keys like F#. In order to keep up with their key changes during performances I found the Shubb was helpful. The sisters were delightful to play with but could be challenging.

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I have my banjo tuned down a semitone to F# all the time as I need it for quite a few songs. :-)

lesnyd - Posted - 07/17/2025:  09:59:44

I wanted to print that 3D files of a fifth string capo, but I realized I would have problems fiddling with it to get it on and off, so I decided to put a knob on it. For a knob I put the head of a German Shepherd dog on it, just for decoration. Works pretty well!

Fifth String Capo GSD

 

cottontop - Posted - 07/17/2025:  10:13:49

quote:

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Originally posted by lesnyd

I wanted to print that 3D files of a fifth string capo, but I realized I would have problems fiddling with it to get it on and off, so I decided to put a knob on it. For a knob I put the head of a German Shepherd dog on it, just for decoration. Works pretty well!

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That is really cool. Thanks for sharing.

Joe

steve davis - Posted - 07/18/2025:  06:43:07

There are many ways to install spikes.
The closer to the fret/the harder they are to set.
Allen Shelton once said that his Bowtie banjo had spikes that he could set or undo with one finger and that when they were replaced after a fret job that one finger operation went away.

The spike needs to be very near the half-way point between frets and the top needs to be sanded smooth.

 

Pete Wernick - Posted - 07/18/2025:  14:57:48

As someone mentioned, I use the Shubb, and while sorry to be contrary to many of the folks who've written in...



I have no idea why people keep using the spikes, unless it's to save money -- and the Shubb isn't that expensive. LOTS of good reasons I prefer the Shubb:



1. Most important, the string is RIGHT IN TUNE when you lay the Shubb's "finger" on the string right by the fret. It's just holding the string straight down on the fret, like a finger does. You can make the adjustment with one hand, and just a quick look to make sure you're in the right place. Much quicker and reliably accurate. [Note: Earl, who was first to use "spikes" (actually hooks) was super quick and always in tune because he had a great ear, and was always... super quick.]



2. Not having to retune the string saves time (except -- when you're going between the spike hooking the string at the 9th fret for B or E and then going to the 7th for A or D, where the spike deflects the string by the same amount. But using the spike, you still have to retune it back to a correct G at some point, so you're having to also fuss with the tuning peg TWICE, no need with the Shubb.



3. The Shubb is so quick that when playing the "Orange Blossom Special" (yes, I do that, and I like it), I can change the the 5th string from a B (for playing in E -- capo 2 and play as though in D) to an A for the part that goes to A -- back and forth a few times during the song, I can retune the string while keeping the roll going, and both parts of the tune sound better with the 5th string tuned to the most appropriate note. (What do "spikes" users do on that tune?)



4. It adds a minuscule amount of width to the neck -- just 1/16 inch thick and sits flush to the neck, unlike the old sliding capos (spring loaded) that Bart Veerman mentioned -- which don't always hold the string down firmly enough to keep it from buzzing if hit hard. If it's hard for you to get your thumb over the top, you could benefit it by practicing it more. Awkward at first, but you'll get it soon enough. Just a sixteenth of an inch.



5. Spikes *always* put the string sharp due to the deflection of the string (as does the wedge pyramid thing that was discussed). The only way I've heard of where that doesn't happen is when the spike is put into a slight counter-sunk depression, so the string sits at about the height it would be if fretted, just above the plane of the fingerboard, about fret height. Whereas the Shubb just lays the string down enough to firmly hold it to the fret. Precision is not needed. Yes, it can be tightened too much and make it go sharp, but ... you learn how to not do that!



All the above comes from my experience. In Hot Rize, we really wanted to be quick to keep the show moving along between songs, no "waiting while the banjo player tunes" -- which is when the m.c. starts making banjo jokes, which I've heard enough of.



The Shubb capo always helped me be right in tune (I'd readily check it with a strobe tuner I kept by my position) by the end of the applause for the previous song. Right in tune, takes a few seconds, with one hand. Tuning is important to sounding your best (no, really? YES.)

In the Masters of the Five String book's survey of 70 banjo players, the users of hooks ("spikes") outnumbered the sliding capo people by better than 2 to 1. Naturally the people who got used to the old way are good with it and stick with it. But I think that's changing. 

Anything *not* to like about the Shubb? Not much....

* Looks a little silly ("what's that thing doing there?" -- fake answers: "It's a camera. Smile." or "It shoots poison darts." or "I don't know." Etc.)

* Can get in the way of fretting the 5th string with your thumb at the 6th fret when in G and the capo's in its normal position when not in use (that happens on exactly 1 song I play).

* Does cost more and needs to be installed very carefully (I recommend having a good luthier do it). Hooks also best installed by a luthier but it's a pretty easy thing for anyone to do with a teeny drill bit and a light tap with a hammer. I think the difference in cost between hooks and the sliding capo -- including installation -- is the main reason the hooks will always be around, especially on starter instruments.

* Eventually the surface of the little finger on the Shubb that holds the string down can wear down and not hold the string down firmly enough. That takes quite a few years of use to happen, but when it does you need a new slider/arm mechanism... additional cost, though easily replaced.

I've been using Shubb 5th string capos since the 70s, and quite honestly I expect that a system like that will become standard on all but inexpensive banjos. Tom Nechville has a good improvement where the arm slides in a groove in the neck, so no width at all is added to the neck, though that's a more involved process I would guess.

Whoever said there are different ways and it depends on what you're used to... they're right, but for speed and accuracy, it's hard to beat the Shubb if those are priorities, as they have been with me. Rick doesn't pay me to say that, but he doesn't mind, and I am just saying what I find is true from experience.

Edited by - Pete Wernick on 07/18/2025 15:07:15

banjonz - Posted - 07/18/2025:  15:37:04

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

There are many ways to install spikes.

The closer to the fret/the harder they are to set.

Allen Shelton once said that his Bowtie banjo had spikes that he could set or undo with one finger and that when they were replaced after a fret job that one finger operation went away.



The spike needs to be very near the half-way point between frets and the top needs to be sanded smooth.

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That's what Richie Dotson advocates. I concur.