Kellie - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:04:23

If I'm going to create a classical tradition for the banjo, then I'm going to need one that is super loud. I was thinking a tubaphone. Should I go with an open back or a resonator?

tonygo - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:10:43

Wouldn't that depend on how much sustain and ring you wanted? You might want one of each both depending on the pieces.

Dean T - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:19:16

Deering Boston

banjered - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:27:07

Once I had a open back that was so loud I got rid of it. It wasn't a famous brand, pretty generic with a round tone ring. I never was able to figure out what made it so loud. Whyte Laydie tone rings can certainly project. When I've been in a jam with one of them being played it could sound just fine and in no way overwhelming but when I would walk away some distance from the jam the Whyre Laydie was prominent and distinct above all the other instruments...? I wonder how loud a banjo is to the player versus out in front of the player. I have a difficult time sometimes adjusting my volume to fit the group. Once a woman said my banjo was too loud.My back was against a wall so I had us change positions and then she said my volume was fine even though I was playing the same. Just some factors to consider about "loudness." And then there are those things called ears..... banjered

Tractor1 - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:27:59

in answer to the topic question I say --

a fender and a arch top changed to a true flathead get those honors for me--but they both lacked any range ,a set-up could have tamed them down but the volume would have been traded for tone and dynamic control--my opinion others would naturally differ

on the second question I could not say --no experience there

Edited by - Tractor1 on 06/01/2025 09:32:42

mike gregory - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:36:23

May 10, 2025, our combined birthdays and wedding anniversary party.
(80 candles for me, 85 for her, and 1 for our first anniversary)
Mary's son showed up with the old banjo she got when she was 17.
If I remember right, it is a Paramount tenor.
The owner previous to her, had played it in a jazz orchestra in the 1920's
It was designed and built about a hundred years ago, and was supposed to be able to fill a concert hall, without amplification.
When the bunch of us got up to play, it pretty much drowned out everybody else.

lazlototh - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:40:22

Would be fun to do the test with a noise app.
The one I have that is almost painfully loud is a "Lakefront". Got it from Bernunzio as a fill in while I was putting another one together.
I did not pay attention to it much. One day I tightened the head and it came alive.
My wife dislikes it.
No one knows the company who made it. It has a multiply beech rim, flat head ring of unknown origin and a maple neck.
Nice low action. Has shoes instead of a OPF.

pinenut - Posted - 06/01/2025:  09:50:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean T

Deering Boston

---

Same:  Boston or 12" tubaphone; set-up to be loud.  It takes effort to tame these beasts; loud is easy.

There's  a trade-off; loud banjos attenuate charm and voice in exchange for bullhorn power. 

Everyone has their own sweet spot.  Enjoy the journey.,

beegee - Posted - 06/01/2025:  10:29:59

My Harry Lane Model G

Alvin Conder - Posted - 06/01/2025:  10:31:21

I have a 11 15/16” early 20’s Whyte Laydie, that thing is crazy loud, but real controllable. Right now it is set up with skin head and light strings. Makes it very playable and definition and tone are very workable. I could imagine that when new, it was just the thing for concert halls.

When I got it back in the 1970’s, I set it up with a new Remo head, medium strings and a razor thin bridge. It was near painful to the ears it was so loud. That set was short lived and it went back to pretty much the original set up after a few months of complaints from fellow band mates.

The loudest banjo I ever owned is an all original ‘27 Gibson RB-1. Completely unmodified in any way. Original skin head and bridge. I don’t know what it is with this thing, but it will cut past most any Mastertone.

banjopaolo - Posted - 06/01/2025:  10:49:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kellie

If I'm going to create a classical tradition for the banjo, then I'm going to need one that is super loud. I was thinking a tubaphone. Should I go with an open back or a resonator?

---

Excuse me Kellie can you explain better what you mean when you say: I'm going to create a classical tradition for the banjo?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 06/01/2025:  11:11:19

The loudest one I ever heard was also the worst sounding one I ever heard. We had a guy that came to our jams and played so loud he drowned out everyone else. His was a cheap import, but it did have a tone ring. Don't remember the brand, but I do remember how bad it sounded. He tried to take over any jam he was in until we had a "leader" with the intestinal fortitude to tell him to either stop being obnoxious or get out! He got out and the leader got a standing ovation.

Fretting Fingers - Posted - 06/01/2025:  11:34:43

The loudest I have owned is my present Gold Tone OB3. I have no doubt there are others that are louder, this is just the one I own.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 06/01/2025:  12:39:27

Worrying about gear can be a great distraction from practice.

gbisignani - Posted - 06/01/2025:  12:50:01

I have a Bacon tenor that is outrageously loud. I have the same tenor banjo converted to 5 string and this one isn't nearly as loud. Is it the setup ? tailpiece ?, bridge, neck wood, or a combination of all.

The loudest one I own is a 20's whyte laydie. I have to stuff it and it's still loud. The loudest I've heard was when Earl played with his sons at either Radio City Music Hall, Carnegie Hall, Philharmonic Hall. I can't remember which it was. He was amplified and I was close to a speaker. It was (almost) too loud.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 06/01/2025:  13:08:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alvin Conder

I have a 11 15/16” early 20’s Whyte Laydie, that thing is crazy loud, but real controllable. Right now it is set up with skin head and light strings. Makes it very playable and definition and tone are very workable. I could imagine that when new, it was just the thing for concert halls.



When I got it back in the 1970’s, I set it up with a new Remo head, medium strings and a razor thin bridge. It was near painful to the ears it was so loud. That set was short lived and it went back to pretty much the original set up after a few months of complaints from fellow band mates.



The loudest banjo I ever owned is an all original ‘27 Gibson RB-1. Completely unmodified in any way. Original skin head and bridge. I don’t know what it is with this thing, but it will cut past most any Mastertone.

---

The original set up was with "True strings", True strings were rectified gut.

 

Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/01/2025:  15:25:44

An incredibly heavy Ome Monarch (w/resonator) belonging to one of my students.

pinenut - Posted - 06/01/2025:  19:13:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alvin Conder

I have a 11 15/16” early 20’s Whyte Laydie, that thing is crazy loud, but real controllable. Right now it is set up with skin head and light strings. Makes it very playable and definition and tone are very workable. I could imagine that when new, it was just the thing for concert halls.



When I got it back in the 1970’s, I set it up with a new Remo head, medium strings and a razor thin bridge. It was near painful to the ears it was so loud. That set was short lived and it went back to pretty much the original set up after a few months of complaints from fellow band mates.

---

I went through a similar activity with my Rickard 12" tubaphone.  It can peel paint with an amber head.

It's currently set-up with a 0.010" Remo suede head and 10-12-14-22-10 strings; the suede head is a lot like a hide head on a good day.  It's just right with this set-up.

woodchips - Posted - 06/02/2025:  07:51:14

I have a 1928 Gibson Tb2 convention with a one piece flange and an early 2000's Gibson ring. The neck is walnut with an ebony fretboard. The notes are super clear and the power means everyone else mic's their instruments while I don't have to. I don't know what the real cause of it is but I suspect it is a combination of head type, head tension, wood select, bridge, tailpiece with its set up and the pick choice used.

earlsgranada - Posted - 06/02/2025:  08:53:06

Snuffy Jenkins' RB-4 that Jim Mills owned, FON# 9639-1. Dana Cupp (former Blue Grass Boy) who lives not far from me in SE Michigan owns a littermate to -1, and the walnut style 4 Gibson's have some serious power and much tone to spare. Paired with chrome hardware and it's a deadly machine!

Tractor1 - Posted - 06/02/2025:  09:07:06

there are more than one up thru the thread--that beats everybody els es-- -can anyone say for sure--the ones with a thinner rim coming in strong ( deering boston -white ladie etc.) has me curious in how that compares to the gibson flathead/arch top models -- in volume for real--what was loyd loar and company digging for-

loudest volume--

volume with a good soft passing tone loudness  between the loud melody notes  or

tone with many other banjo type overtones ????

Edited by - Tractor1 on 06/02/2025 09:13:00

TScottHilton - Posted - 06/02/2025:  12:28:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by lazlototh

Would be fun to do the test with a noise app.

The one I have that is almost painfully loud is a "Lakefront". Got it from Bernunzio as a fill in while I was putting another one together.

I did not pay attention to it much. One day I tightened the head and it came alive.

My wife dislikes it.

No one knows the company who made it. It has a multiply beech rim, flat head ring of unknown origin and a maple neck.

Nice low action. Has shoes instead of a OPF.

---

Those decibel meter apps on phones tend to be inaccurate within 5 ish decibels, and are not able to register beyond a certain point. My phone won't register anything louder than 88 decibels.

But I also have an inexpensive meter I purchased online which I have used to measure volume levels on some of my banjos. A couple of my resonator banjos can peak at about 110 decibels if I really pick hard. This is with the decibel meter placed around 3 feet in front of the instrument.

An interesting observation is that a banjo's perceived loudness does not always translate to the reading on the meter. Of the two banjos I tested, one seemed to me to be louder, however, they both registered very similarly when picked with the same intensity. I think that a banjo's tonal quality has a lot to do with how loud it may be perceived. 

Kellie - Posted - 06/02/2025:  12:37:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjopaolo

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kellie

If I'm going to create a classical tradition for the banjo, then I'm going to need one that is super loud. I was thinking a tubaphone. Should I go with an open back or a resonator?

---

Excuse me Kellie can you explain better what you mean when you say: I'm going to create a classical tradition for the banjo?

---

I'm continuing alongside people like John Bullard. Crafting a repertoire for Banjo in the classical Canon.

Kellie - Posted - 06/02/2025:  12:38:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by TScottHilton

quote:

---

Originally posted by lazlototh

Would be fun to do the test with a noise app.

The one I have that is almost painfully loud is a "Lakefront". Got it from Bernunzio as a fill in while I was putting another one together.

I did not pay attention to it much. One day I tightened the head and it came alive.

My wife dislikes it.

No one knows the company who made it. It has a multiply beech rim, flat head ring of unknown origin and a maple neck.

Nice low action. Has shoes instead of a OPF.

---

Those decibel meter apps on phones tend to be inaccurate within 5 ish decibels, and are not able to register beyond a certain point. My phone won't register anything louder than 88 decibels.

But I also have an inexpensive meter I purchased online which I have used to measure volume levels on some of my banjos. A couple of my resonator banjos can peak at about 110 decibels if I really pick hard. This is with the decibel meter placed around 3 feet in front of the instrument.

An interesting observation is that a banjo's perceived loudness does not always translate to the reading on the meter. Of the two banjos I tested, one seemed to me to be louder, however, they both registered very similarly when picked with the same intensity. I think that a banjo's tonal quality has a lot to do with how loud it may be perceived. 

---

Yeah for some reason my phone caps out at 100 decibels when I tested my voice. 

Kellie - Posted - 06/02/2025:  12:40:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Worrying about gear can be a great distraction from practice.

---

I agree, I'm putting the cart before the horse with this one.

TScottHilton - Posted - 06/02/2025:  13:09:09

For what it's worth: most players I see and hear that are accomplished at either writing original, or transcribing and performing established classical pieces tend to play resonator banjos with heavy tone rings. They also seem to set their banjos up for more sustain in favor of the quick note decay that many bluegrass players prefer. But I am no expert in this area by any means.

Edited by - TScottHilton on 06/02/2025 13:10:01

banjopaolo - Posted - 06/02/2025:  13:49:42

Maybe loudness depends more on the player than on the instrument…. I have a gibson Tb3 Tenor banjo that can sound really loud but I often try to play it very softly!
I think in general is better to care about having a great dynamic range from ppp to fff than to be worried about loudness…

banjoy - Posted - 06/02/2025:  14:14:33

By far, the loudest banjo I've ever heard in my life, was built and played by Arnold Clayton who is kinda known for his replication of the pyramid-type tone rings on some old Gibson banjos. Well, at banjothon maybe 15 years ago, in one of the many rooms I ended up jamming in over the weekend, Arnold was picking one of his creations and holy cow. I practically needed earplugs. He let me pick on it and the strings were like piano wire. You needed a lot of force to drive that thing. Loudest banjo I've ever heard bar none.

Arnold is a member here and as far as I know he's still alive and kicking.

Dean T - Posted - 06/02/2025:  19:47:17

quote:

---

Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean T

Deering Boston

---

Same:  Boston or 12" tubaphone; set-up to be loud.  It takes effort to tame these beasts; loud is easy.

There's  a trade-off; loud banjos attenuate charm and voice in exchange for bullhorn power. 

Everyone has their own sweet spot.  Enjoy the journey.,

---

I was a rank beginner when I had my Boston. It was actually very frustrating, is was so freaking loud. Pick noise, mistakes, picks hitting the head, you name it, was all amplified like a super hot mic. It was my attempt at upgrading from my first Goodtime, so it was quite a drastic difference. I tried clothes pins on the bridge, and duct tape on the back of the head, and stuffing it with foam to quiet it down. I finally gave up, and got a Deering Sierra instead, which was a sweet breathe of fresh air comparatively. 

KCJones - Posted - 06/03/2025:  08:08:42

I have never seen, in my own observations nor in any documented sources, any evidence that a specific banjo tone ring / rim / resonator design will universally affect volume. I have heard quiet flatheads and I've heard loud woodies. I've heard loud open backs and quiet resonators.

Do resonators project sound forward better than open back, which makes them seem louder? Yes. Do most "masterclone" bluegrass pickers put more power into the strings than most "vega-clone" old time players, which makes them seem louder? Yes. Does this mean that resonator flatheads are always louder than open back woody banjos? No. Volume is 99% the player, in any case.

The loudest banjo I ever heard was my Stelling Sunflower. That's probably because I was so close, and sonic energy dissipates according to the inverse square law.

rvrose - Posted - 06/03/2025:  22:10:25

My stelling golden cross is the loudest banjo I've ever played.

TimFoster - Posted - 06/05/2025:  12:24:01

The two loudest I’ve encountered (and still have):



—1984 Stelling White Star (louder than the 2012 Sunflower and 2000 Staghorn I previously owned)…

—1981 Gold Star Crowe #15… (I have another which I love, but is not as loud)

Edited by - TimFoster on 06/05/2025 12:24:17

Joel Hooks - Posted - 06/05/2025:  13:33:28

This is fun and all, but the need for "loudness" has been pretty much negated by microphones and PA systems. Unless you are trying to play an arena with a rock band, a quality microphone and PA should be ample.

I have several banjos that I consider "loud". I have "loud" banjos that are 11" and 12".

I've discovered that there is a difference between "loud" and what I call "carrying power". I recently got a Clifford Essex Wood Hoop Special which I considered to be not loud when playing at home. I discovered that It was perfectly suited to concert work and jamming at the American Banjo Fraternity rally, which surprised me. It has carrying power.

More important than "loud" should be dynamic control. This is very nuanced as playing harder does not always mean you will be playing louder. Over playing causes buzzing and fret slap, both things destroy clarity of tone and volume. In the classic era this was sometimes called "hooked tone" as one would snap the strings by "hooking" them with the fingertips hard to where they would slap against the frets. This makes for a very clacky sound and mutes the volume.

Smoothness and clear note separation should be the goal over "loud". Accomplished violinists will spend hours working on tone clarity. Most Spanish guitar (classical guitar) methods will emphasize tone clarity and color early on.

For whatever reason this is completely ignored with banjo methods.

When striking the string one should strive for a clean break that allows full vibration of the string (this is where "period" high action is needed). The striking should be done obliquely so that the strings, esp the 4th, will not buzz or strike against the adjacent string but vibrate at and angle. With practice one can use a very narrow spacing with no problems.

Learn both free stroke and "rest stroke"-- esp rest stroke for the 4th string for an effective and strong bass harmony. We really only have one bass string with the third as a sort of borrowed bass string, so counterpoint needs to be strong with that one string.

I would encourage the OP to practice often playing p and pp, vary the hand position over the head and get use to the softer feel near the neck. "Loudness" will come with clean and clear practice.

TimFoster - Posted - 06/05/2025:  14:06:58

All great points Joel.  Granted there are of course those times... when your 9-year-old metal-influenced drummer son wants to jam... it is nice to have access to a canon of a banjo when duty calls!  ;-)

Tractor1 - Posted - 06/05/2025:  15:04:58

I also have thrown my hat in the dynamic control-good tone side ------back on page one

Some banjos seem to have a a good low note overtone section then kinda silent thru the middle then nice high overtones--these make for great separation, of important emphasis--one of these types--that seems to have plenty of reserve volume is a good choice for this hermit

according to experts--loudness perception is subject to the frequency sometimes

I have heard a lot about stelling's loudness -but never owned one --from recordings I have not fell in love with their tone --except if Don Reno is playing one on that dueling again album,,it has a juicy deep brassy tone-- but  for a limited choice-I lke the sound to be more reminiscent  of wood-Of course for a working man's banjo-Alan Munde sure likes what stellings  offer

Edited by - Tractor1 on 06/05/2025 15:12:25

stevo58 - Posted - 07/02/2025:  03:10:26

Just an aside - frequency is important. A banjo will reproduce different frequencies at different amplitudes, depending on all sorts of things. It’s not enough to ask “what is the loudest.” And if you are playing with other people, you have to agree (one way or another) who is going to cover which band, or you will be stuck in the mud no matter how loud you are. The human ear is very sensitive to mid-range frequencies (like you get on telephones - at least the old phones) and I’ll bet the thin-walled pots resonate strongly in that band. But what do I know.

Edited by - stevo58 on 07/02/2025 03:12:30

martyjoe - Posted - 07/10/2025:  06:11:42

My solution to greater volume is to have a thicker head on the banjo. I was out in public at a big music session the last couple of days, the Willy Clancy Festival. I pulled out my banjo in a session of about forty players and had to dig in to get any traction. The banjo I took has double layers of Mylar each layer is slightly thinner than a regular banjo head. When this banjo is played softly through to moderate effort it is quieter. When I really put the effort in it just keeps getting louder! Only limited by the strength of the pick.

Edited by - martyjoe on 07/10/2025 06:12:53

 

Laidback-souledout - Posted - 08/04/2025:  16:52:18

1929 TB-4 with 40 hole archtop tone ring. Close second, 1929 Granada with 40 hole archtop.

beegee - Posted - 08/04/2025:  17:13:36

My R.H. Lane Model G