meadandmilk - Posted - 03/28/2025:  09:06:38

Hello all,

Firstly thank you for having me here. This is my first post and I am excited to join in the discussions and knowledge of this fun community!

Just today I won an auction for a very antique looking banjo, it was titled as a "HC Dobson 1870's fretless". Now I can certainly attest to the fact it is fretless, however that's where my knowledge ends!
It was bought in the UK, and I feel it has a few features that a London made 'Dallas' banjo would have, most notably the star inlays, however the heel of the banjo seems to me a typical Dobson style, and definitely not reminiscent of a Dallas.
I'm personally very sceptical about the 'Dobson' claim, or even the more commonly New York made banjos under the Dobson name.

Any help would be appreciated on this matter, and either way I am happy. I won it for 140 British Pounds, and for as long as I have wanted a fretless banjo I didn't expect to get one for such a reasonable price let alone such an old one!

Many thanks in advance!

 

Stephen John Prior - Posted - 03/28/2025:  09:52:06

Hello Sam welcome to the BHO. I can see why you think it could be a London maker. Do you have it to hand ? Some detailed photos of the rim hardware would be helpful. I don't think it is from 1870 and I don't think it's a Dallas. Many makers used mop star inlays. I'm not sure why the auction house would say it was a Dobson ? Two screws through the rim into the heel "ahh it's a Dobson" :-) You need to remove those steel strings post haste, get a set of nylon on it, see how it sounds. Oh and what are those sort of oblong thingies on the fingerboard ? Plus if it was mine I would get a bone 5th string pip and ditch the screw. 

Edited by - Stephen John Prior on 03/28/2025 09:56:25

meadandmilk - Posted - 03/28/2025:  10:35:09

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

Hello Sam welcome to the BHO. I can see why you think it could be a London maker. Do you have it to hand ? Some detailed photos of the rim hardware would be helpful. I don't think it is from 1870 and I don't think it's a Dallas. Many makers used mop star inlays. I'm not sure why the auction house would say it was a Dobson ? Two screws through the rim into the heel "ahh it's a Dobson" :-) You need to remove those steel strings post haste, get a set of nylon on it, see how it sounds. Oh and what are those sort of oblong thingies on the fingerboard ? Plus if it was mine I would get a bone 5th string pip and ditch the screw. 

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Thank you kindly!

Unfortunately I don't have it to hand just yet. I will be picking it up from the auction house tomorrow morning! I have a feeling they went with 'Dobson' because they found something similar sold on eBay and went with it, it's a large lot auction with all sorts of things, so I don't think they would have any specific banjo knowledge!

I have a set of nylgut strings due to arrive very soon, absolutely the first thing I will be changing!

I can't figure out myself what the marks are on the fretboard, I am assuming it is paint or some other kind of stain, perhaps a previous owner tried adding in some fret markers.. Although they don't seem to be in the right positions! Once I get it home tomorrow the strings will come straight off and I will give it a little service, I'd imagine the marks should come off with some fine grit sand paper, as far as I can tell it's an ebony wood fretboard.

Again, your help is very much appreciated, and I will add more photos (and more detailed) as soon as I can!

Stephen John Prior - Posted - 04/04/2025:  01:00:08

quote:

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Originally posted by meadandmilk

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

Hello Sam welcome to the BHO. I can see why you think it could be a London maker. Do you have it to hand ? Some detailed photos of the rim hardware would be helpful. I don't think it is from 1870 and I don't think it's a Dallas. Many makers used mop star inlays. I'm not sure why the auction house would say it was a Dobson ? Two screws through the rim into the heel "ahh it's a Dobson" :-) You need to remove those steel strings post haste, get a set of nylon on it, see how it sounds. Oh and what are those sort of oblong thingies on the fingerboard ? Plus if it was mine I would get a bone 5th string pip and ditch the screw. 

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Thank you kindly!

Unfortunately I don't have it to hand just yet. I will be picking it up from the auction house tomorrow morning! I have a feeling they went with 'Dobson' because they found something similar sold on eBay and went with it, it's a large lot auction with all sorts of things, so I don't think they would have any specific banjo knowledge!

I have a set of nylgut strings due to arrive very soon, absolutely the first thing I will be changing!

I can't figure out myself what the marks are on the fretboard, I am assuming it is paint or some other kind of stain, perhaps a previous owner tried adding in some fret markers.. Although they don't seem to be in the right positions! Once I get it home tomorrow the strings will come straight off and I will give it a little service, I'd imagine the marks should come off with some fine grit sand paper, as far as I can tell it's an ebony wood fretboard.

Again, your help is very much appreciated, and I will add more photos (and more detailed) as soon as I can!

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I would be really interested in how this turned out Sam. 

meadandmilk - Posted - 04/09/2025:  13:58:31

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

quote:

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Originally posted by meadandmilk

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

Hello Sam welcome to the BHO. I can see why you think it could be a London maker. Do you have it to hand ? Some detailed photos of the rim hardware would be helpful. I don't think it is from 1870 and I don't think it's a Dallas. Many makers used mop star inlays. I'm not sure why the auction house would say it was a Dobson ? Two screws through the rim into the heel "ahh it's a Dobson" :-) You need to remove those steel strings post haste, get a set of nylon on it, see how it sounds. Oh and what are those sort of oblong thingies on the fingerboard ? Plus if it was mine I would get a bone 5th string pip and ditch the screw. 

---

Thank you kindly!

Unfortunately I don't have it to hand just yet. I will be picking it up from the auction house tomorrow morning! I have a feeling they went with 'Dobson' because they found something similar sold on eBay and went with it, it's a large lot auction with all sorts of things, so I don't think they would have any specific banjo knowledge!

I have a set of nylgut strings due to arrive very soon, absolutely the first thing I will be changing!

I can't figure out myself what the marks are on the fretboard, I am assuming it is paint or some other kind of stain, perhaps a previous owner tried adding in some fret markers.. Although they don't seem to be in the right positions! Once I get it home tomorrow the strings will come straight off and I will give it a little service, I'd imagine the marks should come off with some fine grit sand paper, as far as I can tell it's an ebony wood fretboard.

Again, your help is very much appreciated, and I will add more photos (and more detailed) as soon as I can!

---

I would be really interested in how this turned out Sam. 

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Hi there,

I picked the banjo up the day after posting this. I haven't got any photos of it yet but I will upload some when I get a moment.

It's my suspicion that it's made by William George Coker, perhaps in the late 1800's but likely the early 1900's. It's a lower end banjo for sure, the fretboard is not ebony it appears to be solid birch along with the neck, and painted black on the fretboard. The star inlays are not MOP but appear to be aluminium or stainless steel. The build quality is still rather nice, the nut appears to be ivory, tailpiece and friction pegs ebony, but there is definitely some economical decisions made along the way.

I have strung it up with nylguts and have it tuned to G minor, though I am considering dropping a half step or more. It certainly has an old timey haunting tone to it, which I am excited to explore further. 

My only experience playing fretless was a bass years ago, and I found that a lot easier than people made out, banjo is another story however, and is exceedingly difficult not only to play in tune, but to have it sing and sustain nicely too! Though it's definitely part of the fun and charm of such a unique instrument!

Thanks for checking up, photos to come.

Sam

A little edit: The markings on the fretboard were simply old bits of brown tape, they gunked up and stuck pretty good but I managed to remove them with a small amount of isopropyl alcohol, before oiling the fretboard.

Edited by - meadandmilk on 04/09/2025 14:01:38

Stephen John Prior - Posted - 04/11/2025:  00:48:46

quote:

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Originally posted by meadandmilk

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

quote:

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Originally posted by meadandmilk

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen John Prior

Hello Sam welcome to the BHO. I can see why you think it could be a London maker. Do you have it to hand ? Some detailed photos of the rim hardware would be helpful. I don't think it is from 1870 and I don't think it's a Dallas. Many makers used mop star inlays. I'm not sure why the auction house would say it was a Dobson ? Two screws through the rim into the heel "ahh it's a Dobson" :-) You need to remove those steel strings post haste, get a set of nylon on it, see how it sounds. Oh and what are those sort of oblong thingies on the fingerboard ? Plus if it was mine I would get a bone 5th string pip and ditch the screw. 

---

Thank you kindly!

Unfortunately I don't have it to hand just yet. I will be picking it up from the auction house tomorrow morning! I have a feeling they went with 'Dobson' because they found something similar sold on eBay and went with it, it's a large lot auction with all sorts of things, so I don't think they would have any specific banjo knowledge!

I have a set of nylgut strings due to arrive very soon, absolutely the first thing I will be changing!

I can't figure out myself what the marks are on the fretboard, I am assuming it is paint or some other kind of stain, perhaps a previous owner tried adding in some fret markers.. Although they don't seem to be in the right positions! Once I get it home tomorrow the strings will come straight off and I will give it a little service, I'd imagine the marks should come off with some fine grit sand paper, as far as I can tell it's an ebony wood fretboard.

Again, your help is very much appreciated, and I will add more photos (and more detailed) as soon as I can!

---

I would be really interested in how this turned out Sam. 

---

Hi there,

I picked the banjo up the day after posting this. I haven't got any photos of it yet but I will upload some when I get a moment.

It's my suspicion that it's made by William George Coker, perhaps in the late 1800's but likely the early 1900's. It's a lower end banjo for sure, the fretboard is not ebony it appears to be solid birch along with the neck, and painted black on the fretboard. The star inlays are not MOP but appear to be aluminium or stainless steel. The build quality is still rather nice, the nut appears to be ivory, tailpiece and friction pegs ebony, but there is definitely some economical decisions made along the way.

I have strung it up with nylguts and have it tuned to G minor, though I am considering dropping a half step or more. It certainly has an old timey haunting tone to it, which I am excited to explore further. 

My only experience playing fretless was a bass years ago, and I found that a lot easier than people made out, banjo is another story however, and is exceedingly difficult not only to play in tune, but to have it sing and sustain nicely too! Though it's definitely part of the fun and charm of such a unique instrument!

Thanks for checking up, photos to come.

Sam

A little edit: The markings on the fretboard were simply old bits of brown tape, they gunked up and stuck pretty good but I managed to remove them with a small amount of isopropyl alcohol, before oiling the fretboard.

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Thanks Sam I look forward to seeing some photos. 

meadandmilk - Posted - 04/14/2025:  08:07:18

Any other closeups areas you would like to see let me know!

Edited by - meadandmilk on 04/14/2025 08:08:40

 

Stephen John Prior - Posted - 04/16/2025:  01:31:19

quote:

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Originally posted by meadandmilk

Any other closeups areas you would like to see let me know!

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Thanks for posting the photos. The rim brackets are a bit unusual I'd guess they were his own design. Coker banjos rarely turn up. The star metal inlay may be German silver.  vintagebanjomaker.com/Coker

meadandmilk - Posted - 04/16/2025:  11:18:43

Silver would make sense, though I never considered it on what I perceived to be a lower end banjo of the time. It is completely pristine and untarnished, and looks too ‘white’ to be steel or aluminium.

Thanks for taking interest, that banjo in the link does seem to resemble mine in many ways, but in others not so much of course.

I suppose the only way for complete closure, onwards from here, would be with a time machine! I suppose it’s quite fun keeping some of the mystery though!

Joel Hooks - Posted - 04/16/2025:  11:35:26

German silver= nickel brass, there is no "silver" in it.

meadandmilk - Posted - 04/18/2025:  12:49:06

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

German silver= nickel brass, there is no "silver" in it.

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Ha, shows how much I know! 

Thank you sir, it is my assumption that the inlays would be some form of aluminium alloy in that case.