Pick1949 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  14:21:46

Have any of yall ever stumbled across this? Had questions about it and decided to make a quick video. Any thoughts on it are welcome. Just trying to share my thoughts and what I’ve arrived at in studying Ralph’s banjo picking… and I welcome any other views or thoughts on the subject!

Edited by - Pick1949 on 01/05/2025 14:22:18

VIDEO: Stanley style banjo “Tidbit’s” - a little oddity of a roll.
(click to view)

 

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  14:27:13

Gary, if you come across this, you remember me and you discussing this in particular? I had a specific question on it so decided to make this vid. What you reckon? Best way I knew to address it…

chuckv97 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  15:01:23

Interesting,, I didn’t know Ralph crossed over the thumb after the index on the 3rd string. That’s sort of like what Alan Munde does on a “4 note forward roll”.
Did Ralph ever do any single string stuff here and there? Sometimes on those you have to cross that thumb over the index.

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  15:08:21

Chuck, Ralph actually does some little single string stuff here and there… but not in the conventional way most think of.



He actually “doubles up” on strings in Clinch Mountain Backstep and Cluck Ol’ Hen… and others here and there. But most of the time he is doubling with the index and middle on the first string… most of the time.

Edited by - Pick1949 on 01/05/2025 15:11:27

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  15:10:59

That’s neat… I’m not familiar with Alan Munde all that well. Have some of his albums, but never jumped into his playing enough to study much of it. Heck of a player though for sure.

Makes sense looking at it as a four note foward roll!

RB3 - Posted - 01/05/2025:  20:03:45

It would be helpful if you could provide a tablature.

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  04:26:57

Hey Pick!

I remember this conversation for sure.

Basicially that first way you do it is just switching the order of the two halves of a FMB roll.

One thing Ralph may have done sometimes is the second time around  he hits the third string with the thumb doing an 1/8 note 2-3 slide , not hitting the open 1st until the slide is done, then hitting the 5th., 

It sounded like he did that in Just because. Either way works, but the way i just told you works really well playing fast.

Ill have to work on that second method you showed. Now thats quirky!

I initially gave the wrong sequence but i corrected it just now

Edited by - stanleytone on 01/06/2025 04:37:15

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  04:54:44

I meant to add that after doing the 2-3 slide the way i described youre not hitting the 2nd string at all with the index ..

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  06:26:55

,hey pick let me backtrack. I

Ignore what i said earlier.

I was confusing myself

What i have heard Ralph do is start off with a forward roll on strings 3-2-1-5, (a 2-3 slide on 3rd string), then after that roll , hit 3rd string with index,doing a 2-3 slide, not hitting 2nd string as you complete slide, but rather hit 1st string after slide is completed, then the 5th.



It was early in the morning. Coffee hadnt kicked in yet.lol

Heres tab. The first one is what i was talking about. The second is one of the ways you showed . Either way works as im sure ralph did both.

Hope you had a good Christmas and New years Pick.

Sure wish ypud come to Cabin Fever Pickn Party in March

You should do a ralph style instrumental and call it Tidbits lol

Edited by - stanleytone on 01/06/2025 06:41:36

Ralph lick

 

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/06/2025:  06:59:58

Hey Gary. I’ve thought about what you just described… him not hitting the 2nd string… “stalling” if you will. But I hear him distinctly play the 2nd string… if not then to me there’s a weird hole in the sequence to void.



But like I said, Im not saying this is the definitive way… but to me I do hear him strike that 2nd string. Also hear him use this roll sequence in Train 45… the version on The Banjo Hootenanny album.



Another friend of mine and me were discussing this too… and we also talked about how that it seems some people dont hear a “hammer on/slide” in Lonesome Traveller. The few that I have seen play that tune play it as two strings in unison. I’m referring to the parts with the 2nd and first strings in the beginning of the tune. I play that as a  2nd string 4-5 fret slide/hammer on… cause that’s what I hear when I slow Ralph down. But I’ve seen a few play that as two unison notes by just fretting the 2nd on the 5th fret alongside the open first.



I reckon it ultimately comes down to what each individual hears…! But it makes for interesting shop talk for sure! Thanks Gary!

Edited by - Pick1949 on 01/06/2025 07:04:24

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  08:35:23

Its easier to figure out some of the more fancy players than it is to figure ralph out sometimes.my ears aint as young as they used to be so they may be playing tricks on me

youtu.be/StY1_LdPHeQ?si=4D3PyxKH1Ln-zB0h

Hope this link works

Listen at about 00:53 .

Its kinda cloudy when slowed down but im trying to hear if he just sounds out the slide( hammer maybe?) Or hits the next string also.

I guess we could always ask Sparkman.

But you know even he did his own thing at times

youtu.be/SZ3erPrzCa4?si=yddidOuAiQiSwBUo

This other link is an OLD  bid of me doing just because.

I think what i did at same part of song is TMTM TIMT . 

when you play it fast its hard to tell much difference

Edited by - stanleytone on 01/06/2025 08:44:07

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/06/2025:  12:30:59

Yeah Gary the example you site there he doesn't play the 2nd string.

youtu.be/i7aXX0RlFsE?si=PbLQY7SBgXDjG3Cr

This question came up on this song from somebody on you tube… the lick in question is at 0:21. The way, he hits the 2nd string here. The difference in the two rolls you site and the one I sited here is the order he plays the strings end. And you are right he used both of them… at different times!

Maybe I should do a video of Ralph’s Cripple Creek… but that may open up another tricky subject.

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  12:40:00

Lol
Oh yeah .
Part B of C.C. right up you alley lol.
One of these days i gotta jam with you.

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/06/2025:  12:48:20

Here is my feeble attempt at tabbing… the three examples here are all different ways Ralph played over the phrase we are speaking of… depending on what the situation called for.



I have a hard time sometimes reading and understanding tab so I hope this will clarify what I’m trying to say.



(Edit - Basically me and you are saying the same thing like always Gary… lol… now that I look back over your tab… lol. You basically tabbed out the same thing I think!  I don't know where to put the dividing bars at in tab... so I just counted to make sure they are all the same beats and stopped there... if that makes sense!)

If not then maybe you can clean it up and re post it Gary!

And yeah I remember us talking about Ralph's Cripple Creek too... another little booger bear!

Edited by - Pick1949 on 01/06/2025 12:59:59

 

stanleytone - Posted - 01/06/2025:  15:07:02

What you tabbed is fine Pick.
In #1 and #2 the last note is actually the first note of the next measure, and #3 the last 2 notes go to the next measure. But the licks are spot on bro!

Pick1949 - Posted - 01/06/2025:  15:57:45

Thanks buddy. I think I got ahead of myself and misread your tab and other post at first... sorry.  And I forgot to say that I hope you had a good Christmas holiday and New Years as well my friend! And hopefully one of these days we will get to jam together!

Edited by - Pick1949 on 01/06/2025 15:59:09

phb - Posted - 01/20/2025:  11:49:31

Could this be a technique left over from Ralph's two-finger playing times where he would only use thumb and index?