ErorrMsg - Posted - 12/21/2024:  05:43:03

I found this banjo on the local marketplace. It still needs a little TLC but seems to play well. My best guess is a 1970s era instrument. Does anybody spot anything else that might help me better understand it? I see the guitar tuners and realize that’s probably the mark of a cheaper instrument. ;)

Cheers!

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 12/21/2024 08:09:24

 

jdeluke137 - Posted - 12/21/2024:  05:56:37

It’s an Asian made bottle cap banjo named for the shape of the rim. It’s a starter banjo.  For many of us they were our first banjos. Set up properly it will be fine as something to start on.

Edited by - jdeluke137 on 12/21/2024 05:58:20

ErorrMsg - Posted - 12/21/2024:  06:00:31

Yes, I see the bottle cap reference :-) I am definitely at square one on these five string banjos so I feel like I got a good one to start this journey on. Thanks much!

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/21/2024:  07:57:41

50-60 years ago these used to be sold in chain drug stores and discount stores. The starter banjos of their day. Good enough to get started on!

ErorrMsg - Posted - 12/21/2024:  08:09:24

Yay! I’m starting out trying to learn basic techniques in the style of Pete Seeger and Tommy Makem. Looking down the pike 6 months or a year, what type of $500-700 banjo should I keep my eye out for?

gbisignani - Posted - 12/21/2024:  09:46:37

I'm thinking it all depends on how much you play (practice)....it might have been a couple of years before I bought something more respectable (70's Japanese) and a couple more years before I bought something that was really good. I'm also thinking what kind of music you are wanting to play. As far as I know Pete Seeger always played an open back. I never heard of Tommy Makem (my loss).

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/21/2024:  10:06:08

Pete Seeger and Tommy Makem played long-necked open backed banjos. This one is a conventional bluegrass scale resonator banjo. You can certainly learn Seeger and Makem technique on this banjo and play any type of 5-string banjo music on any type of 5-string banjo. So what you have is fine for learning.

But if you really want to play music that sounds like what they played, you'll probably want an open back. I think the long neck is optional, because the extra length was in the low frets, allowing the banjo to be tuned down to E and so Pete (and Tommy, too, I think) mostly capoed up to play in G tuning. With a regular-length open back, you'll play in G tuning (or other open back tunings) without a capo.

$500 to $700 is not the same clear price plateau it used to be.

These days, the new banjos in that range tend to be higher quality beginner instruments. $600 will get you a Recording King RK-20 "Songster." This is a resonator banjo, but it easily converts to open back. The flange plates are decorative, not holding the banjo together, so they come off leaving you with a conventional open back with rim shoes like Pete's banjo. This banjos is a bit of an upgrade over your bottle cap, but not an advanced instrument.

$650 gets you the Recording King RK-OT25 open back ("OT" for "old time'). It has a frailing scoop -- fretless section high up the neck. So if you're ok not having notes available up there, this is worth considering. A more substantial wood rim than the the RK-20.

Just beyond your range at $750 is the Gold Tone CC100+. It adds a pickup, which you probably don't need. But it has a 3-ply wood rim, 24 hooks, and planentary tuners, making it a bit better than most learner's instruments.

For $700 you can't even buy a new Deering Goodtime Artisan open back. So I think I've identified the extent of new openbacks in your range. Used Artisans should be available for under $700. But these, too, are just higher level beginner instruments. Regular Deering Goodtimes are in your range, but the only thing they have going for them over your current banjo is the 3-ply maple rim. Other than that, they have fewer hooks and a neck with no truss rod or separate fretboard. Not a step up from what you have.

All the other used banjos I know of in this price range are the Asian-made "Masterclones" (Gibson copies) with resonators and heavy tone rings, making them better for bluegrass. I don't know if Pete and Tommy's open backs had heavy cast tone rings or just rod or tube style rings. I hope someone chimes in with good recommendations for serious open backs in your range, or not too far beyond.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 12/21/2024 10:18:21

KCJones - Posted - 12/21/2024:  12:33:53

I like the binding on the resonator.

Change the strings and tighten the head up for sure, and maybe replace the bridge with a Sullivan bridge. You'll be amazed how much the sound will be improved.

Also double check the bolt that connects the neck and rim and make sure it's tight. Not too tight but firm.

ErorrMsg - Posted - 12/21/2024:  15:50:43

Old Hickory Thanks very much for all your detailed explanations! KCJones I’ll take your suggestions and get practicing and saving my pennies ROFL

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/21/2024:  17:13:07

Happy to have helped.

Also use your time to educate yourself beyond what I or anyone else here says. Research banjos and banjo makers to see what's out there that appeals to you.

The long-neck banjos played by Pete Seeger and Tommy Makem are no longer made.  No Gibson banjos are made any more. Post-war Gibson open-backs in general seem not to be as highly desired and sought as other models. Not too many come on the market. But when they do, prices are not astronomical. Still more than your budget.

So as you discover what things actually cost, you can adjust your expectations of what you'll have to spend.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 12/23/2024:  14:02:12

If you've got $700 budgeted for a better banjo, keep it in the piggy bank, and keep saving and learning for a good while before you think about seriously shopping.

Get the one you have set up well, and it will be a very good starter instrument.

You haven't even begun figuring out how you want your banjo to feel, sound, or look. By the time you get a clear idea of what you do want, you'll have the budget and the experience to be looking for not just a step-up student-grade instrument, but a lifetime keeper.

Pauls Pretty Good Stuff - Posted - 12/28/2024:  17:40:14

Dan, I find your idea a little tough to understand. If he has $700 and a bottlecap, he's got $800 total. I think almost any beginner would be more inspired/committed to taking the time to learn to play the banjo on a better sounding instrument, with a sound he is used to hearing. If he was broke (like a lot of us were i.e. learning to play guitar on finger shredding Harmony archtop), then learn to play the bottlecap. But, without a HUGE commitment to learn, learning on a better instrument (affordable) would give him a better chance to succeed.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 01/07/2025:  12:04:30

quote:

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Originally posted by Pauls Pretty Good Stuff

Dan, I find your idea a little tough to understand. If he has $700 and a bottlecap, he's got $800 total. I think almost any beginner would be more inspired/committed to taking the time to learn to play the banjo on a better sounding instrument, with a sound he is used to hearing. If he was broke (like a lot of us were i.e. learning to play guitar on finger shredding Harmony archtop), then learn to play the bottlecap. But, without a HUGE commitment to learn, learning on a better instrument (affordable) would give him a better chance to succeed.

---

Setup is the key.  Of course it has to play easily and in tune. I've set up quite a few bottlecaps for my students, and was able get them that way, and also get a pleasant and musical tone out of them, though of course lacking in the depth and volume you'd expect of a better banjo.  A beginner sure doesn't need the volume, and hasn't yet developed either the ear or the chops necessary to access the tone potential of any banjo.   A lot of beginners don't even know yet what style of music they want to play, and a lot of those that think they do wind up changing their minds a few months in. 

If you have one that works, why not stick with it until you at least start to understand what would make one work better FOR YOU?

Edited by - Dan Gellert on 01/07/2025 12:05:24

Pauls Pretty Good Stuff - Posted - 01/07/2025:  15:11:24

And, yes, Dan I, too, have set up a bunch of bottle-caps (and lesser) banjos in my 25+ years at The Folk Shop and sold them cheap to broke beginners. But this guy has a budget and a desire for a better first instrument. He doesn't know if the bottlecap is even set up well. How much would he pay for a GOOD set-up? If he were to buy a $500-600 banjo at a good shop, it would already have a decent set-up.
Perhaps he should take the bottlecap to a banjo shop and have a player compare it with Gold Tone, Goodtime (ugh), or used banjo and see what his ear tells him, maybe he has a great ear!
There is that (play what ya brung) thought, but I don't think it applies in this case. Just me.