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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/400335
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jojo25 - Posted - 11/11/2024: 18:10:49
Hi all...I have not been active here for a long time...this post may not be suitable...but I will leave that for the mods to determine...if you have to take it down or lock it I am totally OK with that and understand
So...basic thing...I am fed up with the disrespect that banjo players get...that I get...I have over 50 yrs of experience on the banjo and banjo is pretty much all I ever play...
you know...all those banjo jokes...for yrs I tried to develop a metaphorical kevlar body armor...so no jokes could get thru and actually insult me...sometimes I would do a preemptive strike...tell a banjo joke myself
and sometimes I fight back (not physically!) and tell a joke that disses fiddlers...and man you should see the piercing dirty looks I get when I do that
and now I step into the minefield
I am convinced that the dissing of the banjo is racist in its roots...am I calling everyone who disses the banjo a racist? No...I am saying I think the lack of respect for the banjo stems from the roots of the banjo...which is West Africa...and from the attitude too many have about folks from Africa...and I am further stating that going along with the banjo dissing is perpetrating racism
I suspect there will be some of you who will say sumtin akin to "get over it"...or..."get over yourself" and my response to those comments is not fit to be aired here...suffice to say I vehemently object to such views
and whilst I am belly aching...too many OT bands...in stage performances that are miked or in studio recording...put the banjo way too far back in the sound...they should be equals IMHO...I perceive this as another manifestation of banjo dissing...your banjo player isn't good enuf to be an equal? Then get another banjo player...some of this is...at live shows....I think...due to the popularity of using a single mike for a performance...yeah, that can work...sometimes...but more often than not it leads to soloing...like in bluegrass...and we ain't playing bluegrass, are we?
and a lot of OT bands don't even have a banjo player...or just have one for a few tunes...once at CROMA none of the bands they hired had a banjo player...at an OT fest! I mentioned it to one of the organizers and they said it was just a happenstance...which I believed...no malice intended... but what would folks have said/done if none of the bands had a fiddler?
At this stage of my life I am becoming more and more of a fierce advocate for giving the banjo equal footing in OT music
and I am not saying it is everyone...but I can honestly say that rarely does a session pass where someone doesn't sling jive at me for being a banjo player...it seems that it is considered to be socially acceptable and that I should not get my back up about it...but I say life is too short and I refuse to take it anymore
rant over
Alvin Conder - Posted - 11/11/2024: 19:27:22
I get it completely….been playing for about 50 years also.
It could be worse….I double on Tuba. Talk about getting disrespected.
doryman - Posted - 11/11/2024: 19:46:30
Maybe you need new friends? I say that in all seriousness. Other than the occasional, good natured kidding that happens between friends, I've not experienced what you're describing to the extent that it would bother me.
RB3 - Posted - 11/11/2024: 21:20:11
The banjo and blackface were the two primary iconic elements of minstrelsy that were used to comedically disparage the enslaved black people of the 19th century. That stereotype prevailed into the 20th century. To avoid the stigma of the stereotype, I think that black people largely abandoned the instrument as time progressed.
Today, I think the black stereotype has been superseded by the stereotype of a poor, uneducated, rural, Southern white banjo player. I think it’s now the hillbilly banjo player stereotype that is the basis for the disparagement of the instrument and those who play one. As such, I don’t see contemporary disrespect for the instrument as an expression of racism.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/11/2024: 22:04:48
I’ve been playing 60+ years, and I have never heard cracks or snide comments about playing the banjo. Dunno why, given others’ experiences.
HSmith - Posted - 11/11/2024: 23:53:08
I think I know what Joe means, although I've encountered this kind of sly, sniping criticism from only one person in all my 50+ years of playing. He was a guitarist of only moderate ability, but felt he was more than that. I think he felt somehow threatened by anyone whose musical ability was clearly greater than his. In fairness, I've found that we banjo players are a very focussed group. We work hard to get the notes right, we sometimes obsess about it. I suspect that players of other instruments may not share quite the same level of commitment. As a possible indicator of this, just compare the level of activity on this site with that on the Flat-picker Hangout. Far fewer posts, fewer tabs, less discussion perhaps indicating less interest, I don't know.
Edited by - HSmith on 11/11/2024 23:54:05
GS - Posted - 11/12/2024: 00:55:53
I play the kazoo and triangle. Not at the same time - I'm not that good. Man, I get no respect.
Winged Words - Posted - 11/12/2024: 01:31:47
I spent a good few years playing in a recorder consort and it was a very conscious part of our mission to show the recorder was capable of playing more than a tuneless screech from a class of 7 year olds. Our finest hour was after one show in Sevenoaks (UK members will understand the sort of place I'm talking about - posh in a word) when a lady from the audience said to us "I never knew the recorder could play real music."
(Here's a taste of what 4 recorders can do if you've not heard top players. We were pretty good but not this good.)
youtu.be/eMRY3ZCSBP4?si=3RpC0PY3zso1BrnI
What I'm saying to the OP is not to try to fight back with words or jokes, but with your music. Make sure you're the best ambassador for the instrument that you can possibly be and have confidence in your musicianship.
Jerry Hatrick - Posted - 11/12/2024: 01:42:44
Yes, interesting perspective from Harry. It’s usually guitar players who like to belittle banjo players in my experience, but it’s probably down to jealousy, because they’ve haven’t put in the same time to get good on their instrument. As a guitarist myself, I know that you can learn guitar to performance standard quite quickly, without having to understand much about music, but if you adopt the same lazy approach with banjo, mandolin or fiddle, you end being no more than someone who happens to own a banjo, mandolin, but can’t really play it to performance standard. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh to some, but with all the information out there these days for guitar playing (Youtube teachers, etc), I’m amazed at how many guitar players never bother taking it beyond basic chord strumming, and say learn to play an actual tune.
Jack Baker - Posted - 11/12/2024: 02:06:26
Hi Joe,
Your post was intelligent and clear to me. There is a lot of racism in this Great Country of ours right now and you may be getting a little bit of that being thrown at you because you play banjo. I think personally that you should, if possible, try even harder to steel yourself against these kinds of racist individuals. The next 4 years may be a little tough on all of us who are at all fair and kind to others--I'm hoping I'm wrong.
I would try to communicate with like minded people as your self here on BHO. You might consider just a little that most people know very little about the banjo--it has always had an air of mystery attached to it....Good luck to you Joe and I totally understand your post and message....good luck to your and your banjo playing. I went to your Media page and you sound quite good to me....my best to you....Jack Baker
Edited by - Jack Baker on 11/12/2024 02:13:26
stanleytone - Posted - 11/12/2024: 03:30:48
The best response? Just throw a 10th fret stanley style choke at' em.
JSB88 - Posted - 11/12/2024: 03:53:41
Interesting post. My very limited experience from the UK is more in line with RB3's post above. Maybe not racism but definitely prejudices against a group, mainly homogenised in the mind of the person expressing the attitude. TBH I would think most people in the UK would not know the banjo has it's roots in Africa, but would go straight to some 'deliverance' inspired jibe. There's no cure, some people are just...searching for a polite word but coming up blank.
Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/12/2024: 04:26:09
Unfortunately, it seems the "norm" now for some people to be sarcastic and rude and to diss others. That's a shame because it does no one any good. To me, it makes the one doing the diss a lesser person because he or she has to denigrate another person and makes me feel sad that they think they have or need to impune others.
To those type people I do my best to stay away from them. I don't need negativity, I need to be around people who are kind and friendly.
Do I let those type people bother me? No. I just feel sorry for them and go my way.
As far as jokes about banjo pickers, it's according to who's telling the jokes whether it's funny or disrespectful and I respond accordingly.
mike gregory - Posted - 11/12/2024: 04:40:42
The people who spent TWO MILLION DOLLARS making the film "Deliverance" didn't help any!
They saw an odd-looking local kid, sat him on a porch swing, had someone else kneel behind him, with THEIR arms down HIS shirt sleeves, to play what is basically a scale exercise, clawhammer style..
Then, in a studio hundreds of miles away, they had one of the best SCRUGGS style players they could get, play a BLUEGRASS version of the song.
And somewhere between four million and a hundred bazillion people, all around the world, were misinformed that banjo players are ALL poor, White, and goofy looking.
What they saw and heard, although it was not real, reinforced their ignorance.
PS: Mr. Reynolds did not REALLY put an arrow into somebody's spine.
People should know that movies are not reality.
HighLonesomeF5 - Posted - 11/12/2024: 04:48:47
Everything isn't racism. They have been making fun of country music for generations. Dressing like hayseeds and acting ignorant (Hee Haw) hasn't helped.
BobbyE - Posted - 11/12/2024: 05:03:57
Don't sweat it and give those people power over you. Enjoy the banjo and the pleasure that it has given you and continues to give you in the past and present. Many of those folks are ill-educated, jealous, and rude. Probably a few more adjectives also, but not going to give them the attention they don't deserve to come up with more descriptions.
Bobby
Edited by - BobbyE on 11/12/2024 05:08:53
csacwp - Posted - 11/12/2024: 05:27:57
The way I see it, old-time musicians brought this upon themselves by adopting the hillbilly stereotype and undoing decades of hard work by more serious banjo players like Frank Converse, Fred Bacon, and Parke Hunter.
banjered - Posted - 11/12/2024: 06:03:34
"Daddy, when I grow up I want to be a banjo player."
"I'm sorry son but you can't do both."
banjered
NNYJoe - Posted - 11/12/2024: 06:14:50
IMHO, nothing you said was incorrect.
"Why" the banjo/banjo players are regarded through stereotypical lenses has many answers. Racism certainly is one. So is the denigration of the Appalachian people. And much of this stems from that popular entertainment, the minstrel show., where the banjo player was often the comedy relief
As the minstrel shows faded, banjo players stayed clowns e.g. Stringbean, Grandpa Jones & Spec Rhodes...and that guy playing with Marty Stewart, Leroy Somebody.
Even somber-faced banjo pickers get painted as comedy when they play the theme to the Beverly Hillbillies.
I did not start playing banjo to get girls or please other people. I did not start playing as the entrance ramp on the road to riches. I started playing because I was enchanted by the sound of the banjo. I still am. And when the jokes begins, well, whadda gonna do. You can't cure stupid.
"All men are created equal. Except banjo players. They're way cooler."
LouieChee - Posted - 11/12/2024: 06:53:01
I've heard a decent number of banjo jokes at jam sessions as well. I'm in the bluegrass world, and I think most of the jokes come from people's bad experiences with banjo players.
There's an unfortunate number of us who learn some hot licks and then play them at full volume for the whole jam session. The bluegrass banjo is very loud and some degree of restraint needs to be exercised most of the time, and some players never learn that.
You may be right about the racism aspect, but I would bet it has more to do with racism/classism against the hillbilly stereotype and not its African roots. I think a lot of people don't know about the banjo's African roots.
conic - Posted - 11/12/2024: 07:25:50
complete rubbish, the banjo was not invented in western australia
Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/12/2024: 08:12:47
What ever happened to people being able to laugh at themselves and things they might do? Seems like now everyone is just waiting for a chance to be insulted so they can go on a rant or cry about it.
I've told many banjo jokes about myself and laughed at it. I wasn't insulted if someone told me a banjo joke. I wonder why others are? I play the banjo and sing and am proud of being able to do both. I don't let other people's thoughts of me and my instrument bother me. They have a right to their (very wrong) opinion.
Pick-A-Lick - Posted - 11/12/2024: 08:15:41
quote:
Originally posted by jojo25Hi all...I have not been active here for a long time...this post may not be suitable...but I will leave that for the mods to determine...if you have to take it down or lock it I am totally OK with that and understand
So...basic thing...I am fed up with the disrespect that banjo players get...that I get...I have over 50 yrs of experience on the banjo and banjo is pretty much all I ever play...
you know...all those banjo jokes...for yrs I tried to develop a metaphorical kevlar body armor...so no jokes could get thru and actually insult me...sometimes I would do a preemptive strike...tell a banjo joke myself
and sometimes I fight back (not physically!) and tell a joke that disses fiddlers...and man you should see the piercing dirty looks I get when I do that....
.....I can honestly say that rarely does a session pass where someone doesn't sling jive at me for being a banjo player...it seems that it is considered to be socially acceptable and that I should not get my back up about it...but I say life is too short and I refuse to take it anymore....rant over
Joe,
As a fellow banjo jockey I sympathize with your pain, but I take pride in finding the humor in most situations which can soften the blow. That said, anytime someone slings a bit of small minded muck in my direction for whatever ever reason, one of my standard answers is "Everyone is entitled to their option even if it is wrong, but thanks for going out on a limb and sharing your thoughts".
And of course things could always be worse,..........You could be a Accordion player.
Edited by - Pick-A-Lick on 11/12/2024 08:18:23
banjoak - Posted - 11/12/2024: 08:32:59
quote:
Originally posted by jojo25
and I am not saying it is everyone...but I can honestly say that rarely does a session pass where someone doesn't sling jive at me for being a banjo player...it seems that it is considered to be socially acceptable and that I should not get my back up about it...but I say life is too short and I refuse to take it anymore
Wow. That must suck, for you.
I can honestly say that sessions over last 50 years... don't recall anyone slings jive at me or anyone else based on being a banjo player! Nor any other issues you encounter.
Rather, good banjo playing is overwhelmingly appreciated, treated with respect, and like banjo having it's place in the music, and get invited in, to pickin' parties, and play at gigs. It seems the banjo still has a certain cache, the cool instrument. A lot of the other musicians (fiddlers esp) have expressed interest, thought about picking up banjo; some have got one noodled around a little... some actually learned to play.
Sounds like they don't really like banjo playing, not everyone does, it's not a requirement for living. Maybe find a group of folks who do?
edit: FWIW, I don't have any issue with banjo jokes... they are just jokes, not personal... nobody I know takes them serious, bases their view of banjo players on them.
Edited by - banjoak on 11/12/2024 08:38:14
NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 11/12/2024: 09:16:30
I play guitar at a professional level and integrate my intermediate level banjo into the mix. I have never encountered what the OP suggests. Quite the opposite. The classic rock\metal crowds I play for love the jer. So do other guitarists.
I have seen acoustic guitars adverted as "Banjo killers". Silly considering anything can be amped.
I had an experience once where our drummer kept deriding our rhythm guitarists. The guitarist was humble and just took it. When I finally said something, they both laughed at me and told me to chill. I read it wrong and apologized with "Hell yeah bra".
banjodobro56 - Posted - 11/12/2024: 09:57:23
I submit that EVERY instrument has its own series of jokes, with plenty of crossover between categories.
Edited by - banjodobro56 on 11/12/2024 09:57:53
Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/12/2024: 10:47:38
quote:
Originally posted by NNYJoeIMHO, nothing you said was incorrect.
"Why" the banjo/banjo players are regarded through stereotypical lenses has many answers. Racism certainly is one. So is the denigration of the Appalachian people. And much of this stems from that popular entertainment, the minstrel show., where the banjo player was often the comedy relief
As the minstrel shows faded, banjo players stayed clowns e.g. Stringbean, Grandpa Jones & Spec Rhodes...and that guy playing with Marty Stewart, Leroy Somebody.
Even somber-faced banjo pickers get painted as comedy when they play the theme to the Beverly Hillbillies.
I did not start playing banjo to get girls or please other people. I did not start playing as the entrance ramp on the road to riches. I started playing because I was enchanted by the sound of the banjo. I still am. And when the jokes begins, well, whadda gonna do. You can't cure stupid.
"All men are created equal. Except banjo players. They're way cooler."
Slight correction, the banjo soloist in the minstrel show was usually NOT the comedian. Most of the "comedy" act happened between "Bones" and "Tambo" which were the "end men" with the interlocutor in between.
Banjoists in minstrelsy were not "comic relief" they were talented musicians playing solos, musical accompaniment for dancers, part of the general orchestra, and sometimes would sing songs (which ran the gamut from comedic to sentimental).
Was comedy part of the act-- absolutely! But (and this is a big but) the banjoist (and banjo) were not ridiculed just for existing. In fact, reviewing mountains of minstrel joke books and scripts I've not found one "banjo joke" as we think of today.
banjered - Posted - 11/12/2024: 10:57:34
I don't get out in public much with my banjo but several times I would tell a banjo joke and then invite the audience to share their banjo jokes. Learned some pretty good banjo jokes that way. As said, life is too important to be taken seriously, certainly where banjos are concerned. banjered
Paul Roberts - Posted - 11/12/2024: 13:59:06
Let's solve, resolve and dissolve all our challenges through what we love the most- for me its music.
brettzke - Posted - 11/12/2024: 18:22:33
Every instrument has it's own collection of jokes.
No one who plays gets by without being the but of jokes.
Banjo players aren't any more special than any one else .
Grow up folks!
From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 11/12/2024: 18:43:47
Had a guy call me the worst banjo player he ever heard. Wow! I was so happy. I smiled, shook his hand, and said Thank you! You are the first person that ever called me a banjo player. Went home on cloud nine that night. Was so encouraged that I resolved to take the time and tune the banjo at least once a week regardless if it needed it or not!
Ken
banjered - Posted - 11/12/2024: 20:13:18
A "banjo player" eh Ken. That is rich! Congratulations! It makes me recall many decades ago when a (young) club owner showed me a promotion flyer for my next gig there, that when I last played at the club I was "appreciated by much of his audience." I couldn't stop laughing for several minutes, tears in my eyes. I laughed so hard that I could see that he was worried that I had lost my mind. He was clueless. Brought "damned by faint praise" to a whole 'nother level. I am chuckling even now as I recall the scene. banjered
Culloden - Posted - 11/13/2024: 07:00:14
Some people look for things to be offended by so they can rant and rave and push their opinion all over everyone else.
Not everything in this world is prompted by racism. People just look for ways to make things all about race.
Racism (or the perception of it) is kept alive by people who want to make everything about race.
People don't make jokes about the banjo because it originated in Africa. They make jokes about it because it is a unique instrument that sounds like no other. People also make jokes about accordions and bagpipes. You don't hear people bringing race into the picture when someone makes an accordion joke.
Mad Hornet - Posted - 11/13/2024: 07:39:31
What's funny is I only get insulted by my very close friends, but that's just how we are. The strangers I meet in jams are usually the nicest people I will come in contact with on a given day.
Matt Buckley - Posted - 11/13/2024: 10:59:08
I’m a lawyer who plays banjo as well as different kinds of bagpipes. I’ve heard it all, and I enjoy the jokes. Now all I need to do is take up the accordion to complete the circle of shame. :)
Edited by - Matt Buckley on 11/13/2024 10:59:45
From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 11/13/2024: 11:05:31
quote:
Originally posted by Matt BuckleyI’m a lawyer who plays banjo as well as different kinds of bagpipes. I’ve heard it all, and I enjoy the jokes. Now all I need to do is take up the accordion to complete the circle of shame. :)
Love the pipes. Do they ever play pipes and Scruggs banjo together? Any recordings of it?
Thanks,
ken
chuckv97 - Posted - 11/13/2024: 22:13:50
It behooves us all to play well before going out and playing in public; you might be the only walking advertisement our beloved instrument has for many folks, imho. As was said, the banjo is loud and can be harsh, out of time, and just plain annoying in the wrong hands. As is true for fiddle and other loud instruments. There’s a banjo player who comes to our Thursday jam and plays loud, steps all over other people’s solos or singing, and is often out of rhythm with terrible tone. Some folks have quit coming to that jam or quickly get a few others to split off into another room. I’ve politely advised this fella a few times to adhere to jam etiquette,, last week he was much better at holding back,, maybe it’s sinking in.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/13/2024 22:15:38
Jerry Hatrick - Posted - 11/14/2024: 01:04:29
If you play banjo, concertina, bagpipes, drums, bodhran or even viola, then cheap jibes come with territory. I have to admit to actually enjoying such jokes myself, but I’m aware that they typically ignore the fact that some of these are quite difficult instruments to actually master. What surprises me though is that I never hear any such put downs about ukelele players, some of whom can be quite annoying.
Not only is the ukelele a very easy instrument to pick up, but we have festivals around here where ukelele bands perform and (without being unkind) play dumbed down versions of favourite songs (whilst staring intently at chord sheets, often where only a couple of changes are involved anyway). We had to follow one such band once, but our very carefully rehearsed set was somewhat spoilt because several of our songs had already been all but murdered by the previous act (to thunderous applause as well by their all adoring relatives). Does this only happen in UK, I wonder?
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 11/14/2024: 02:43:59
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97It behooves us all to play well before going out and playing in public; you might be the only walking advertisement our beloved instrument has for many folks, imho.
Interestingly, this is the opposite of the advice that's often given to novices, to go out and jam as soon as possible. I don't really know the answer, maybe it depends on the person. I've definitely experienced the banjo player who never stops playing the entire time, no matter if anyone else can be heard.
chuckv97 - Posted - 11/14/2024: 04:19:52
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycrowequote:
Originally posted by chuckv97It behooves us all to play well before going out and playing in public; you might be the only walking advertisement our beloved instrument has for many folks, imho.
Interestingly, this is the opposite of the advice that's often given to novices, to go out and jam as soon as possible. I don't really know the answer, maybe it depends on the person. I've definitely experienced the banjo player who never stops playing the entire time, no matter if anyone else can be heard.
My mistake, I should have been more specific - I meant learn to play well or competently before playing out in public.... I wasn't including jam sessions as "playing out in public". I mentioned the fella at the jam session as an example of why banjos or banjo players are sometimes "dissed" as the OP mentions.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 11/14/2024 04:22:24
Silver_Falls - Posted - 11/14/2024: 05:02:55
quote:
Originally posted by Matt BuckleyI’m a lawyer who plays banjo as well as different kinds of bagpipes. I’ve heard it all, and I enjoy the jokes. Now all I need to do is take up the accordion to complete the circle of shame. :)
Don't forget the djembe while you're at it ;>
Culloden - Posted - 11/14/2024: 06:43:03
quote:
Originally posted by Jerry HatrickIf you play banjo, concertina, bagpipes, drums, bodhran or even viola, then cheap jibes come with territory. I have to admit to actually enjoying such jokes myself, but I’m aware that they typically ignore the fact that some of these are quite difficult instruments to actually master. What surprises me though is that I never hear any such put downs about ukelele players, some of whom can be quite annoying.
Not only is the ukelele a very easy instrument to pick up, but we have festivals around here where ukelele bands perform and (without being unkind) play dumbed down versions of favourite songs (whilst staring intently at chord sheets, often where only a couple of changes are involved anyway). We had to follow one such band once, but our very carefully rehearsed set was somewhat spoilt because several of our songs had already been all but murdered by the previous act (to thunderous applause as well by their all adoring relatives). Does this only happen in UK, I wonder?
No, it happens in the United States, too.
Realbluegrassfan - Posted - 11/14/2024: 12:31:20
quote:
Originally posted by Matt BuckleyI’m a lawyer who plays banjo as well as different kinds of bagpipes. I’ve heard it all, and I enjoy the jokes. Now all I need to do is take up the accordion to complete the circle of shame. :)
Matt,
What do you get the most insults, or jokes over; banjos, bagpipes, or being an attorney?
Paul R - Posted - 11/14/2024: 20:39:30
I'm just back (been home less than an hour now) from playing at a restaurant/bar in Prince Edward County (open mic, but I did at least nine songs/tunes). Two couples came in together. The second time I got up to play I informed them, "Here's the deal. When I play the banjo it's for free. If I don't play the banjo, you pay me." Everyone got a good laugh out of that. However, later, one guy got up and put a twenty dollar bill on my table. Then the other put down a five. Banjo sarcasm gets results, I guess.
Edited to add: Before they left, one of the women came to me to say how much she enjoyed the Steve Martin tune she'd heard earlier in the day ("Foggy Morning Breaking" with Alison Brown). She sure appreciated the banjo. Those reactions can make your day.
They, and other people were actually pleased to see and hear the banjo. It's nice to get that reaction. The first time I attended the Kingston Bluegrass Jam, when I pulled out my open-back, the leader exclaimed, "CLawhammer!" as a token of respect.
However, there's a particular banjo player at one of the weekly sessions I attend. He noodles through the space between tunes, when we're discussing the songs and songwriters and giving the info (key, maybe the chords, and other stuff). He plays the same way all the time. I never found the banjo annoying until he showed up. (A couple of glances from me this week may have had some small effect.)
Some people who tell me banjo jokes often do it to give me one I haven't heard. And I give some back. Some people tell them because they don't know any better. I often tell some as a preemptive strike - tell enough and they back off.
Edited by - Paul R on 11/14/2024 20:50:01
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 11/15/2024: 02:27:46
My problem with banjo jokes is that it's so rarely one I haven't already heard, so I'm just waiting for them to get through it.
Pickernik - Posted - 11/15/2024: 18:58:48
Well, you can't help how you feel, but you can respond better by keeping your cool. Every group has its butt of the jokes....in orchestras the viola is the target. Bagpipes! Accordions! Drums! On and on. I don't think it's racist. Maybe a little banjosist. No harm, no foul. I play clawhammer, and if I would put in the time and practice, I'd play three finger style. Unfortunately I think one has to have two brains to do that!
Maybe the banjo player has a very loud banjo and they are playing with a very sensitive mic. You can't run a bunch of levels using a single mic, and every instrument has its own volume. It makes sense that the banjo hangs back. I play standup bass too, and am usually in the back.
I'm sorry you are so unhappy. Steve Martin has a video out where he sings a song about how it's hard to be grumpy when playing the banjo. It's funny and worth searching for it. Love what you do, be friendly and approachable and you might get some positive vibes back. Or not! Hope things get better for ya.
Yours in pickage, Nikki :-)
Originally posted by jojo25Hi all...I have not been active here for a long time...this post may not be suitable...but I will leave that for the mods to determine...if you have to take it down or lock it I am totally OK with that and understand
So...basic thing...I am fed up with the disrespect that banjo players get...that I get...I have over 50 yrs of experience on the banjo and banjo is pretty much all I ever play...
you know...all those banjo jokes...for yrs I tried to develop a metaphorical kevlar body armor...so no jokes could get thru and actually insult me...sometimes I would do a preemptive strike...tell a banjo joke myself
and sometimes I fight back (not physically!) and tell a joke that disses fiddlers...and man you should see the piercing dirty looks I get when I do that
and now I step into the minefield
I am convinced that the dissing of the banjo is racist in its roots...am I calling everyone who disses the banjo a racist? No...I am saying I think the lack of respect for the banjo stems from the roots of the banjo...which is West Africa...and from the attitude too many have about folks from Africa...and I am further stating that going along with the banjo dissing is perpetrating racism
I suspect there will be some of you who will say sumtin akin to "get over it"...or..."get over yourself" and my response to those comments is not fit to be aired here...suffice to say I vehemently object to such views
and whilst I am belly aching...too many OT bands...in stage performances that are miked or in studio recording...put the banjo way too far back in the sound...they should be equals IMHO...I perceive this as another manifestation of banjo dissing...your banjo player isn't good enuf to be an equal? Then get another banjo player...some of this is...at live shows....I think...due to the popularity of using a single mike for a performance...yeah, that can work...sometimes...but more often than not it leads to soloing...like in bluegrass...and we ain't playing bluegrass, are we?
and a lot of OT bands don't even have a banjo player...or just have one for a few tunes...once at CROMA none of the bands they hired had a banjo player...at an OT fest! I mentioned it to one of the organizers and they said it was just a happenstance...which I believed...no malice intended... but what would folks have said/done if none of the bands had a fiddler?
At this stage of my life I am becoming more and more of a fierce advocate for giving the banjo equal footing in OT music
and I am not saying it is everyone...but I can honestly say that rarely does a session pass where someone doesn't sling jive at me for being a banjo player...it seems that it is considered to be socially acceptable and that I should not get my back up about it...but I say life is too short and I refuse to take it anymore
rant over
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