Kellie - Posted - 08/31/2024:  13:42:28

Has anyone tried to play through his music? There's some compositions on classic banjo.ning but no recordings of it. Is there a reason for that? Is it too difficult, or just not worth the effort? I know I praise this man a lot, and it's because I see him as someone who really pushed the banjo and the player to it's and their limit. I know I'm just a beginner so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but if I may say something it's that Farland seems unique and unlike Franz Liszt we actually have recordings of him. If you listen to those recordings you'll notice he's doing thumb tremolo in his carnival of Venice variations. I don't know if anyone has had that level of technique since or even tried to mimic it. So if someone has actually played through his most difficult pieces, what were the main challenges? My experience with his arrangements and compositions shows me that he didn't treat the banjo like a banjo. He treated it akin to a guitar like a flamenco player would.

Edited by - Kellie on 08/31/2024 13:55:03

Kellie - Posted - 08/31/2024:  20:34:34

Is he respected in the banjo community, or is he seen as a nut job?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/31/2024:  20:34:50

What you are hearing in those recordings is not “thumb tremolo” (I am not sure what you mean by that).

Just after 1900 Farland developed a repetitive motion injury from his relentless practice for the perfect index finger “waggle” tremolo technique to imitate the sustained tones of the violin. Described as an “overdeveloped muscle” it is likely that he had what is now known as focal dystonia.

To continue with his tremolo style, he developed a system of using a leather plectrum with an elastic look that he could attach to his index finger. This allowed him to switch back and forth, using the pick for tremolo and fingers for everything else.

Those recordings are plectrum style.

He claimed to have patented the pick but I have located no patent.

Serenade

Paganini Caprice

 

tdennis - Posted - 08/31/2024:  20:47:12

A. Farland is well respected in the banjo community, & no one has ever been crass enough to suggest he was a nut job.

Kellie - Posted - 08/31/2024:  20:59:32

quote:

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Originally posted by tdennis

A. Farland is well respected in the banjo community, & no one has ever been crass enough to suggest he was a nut job.

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Good. He's my hero.

Kellie - Posted - 08/31/2024:  21:01:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

What you are hearing in those recordings is not “thumb tremolo” (I am not sure what you mean by that).



Just after 1900 Farland developed a repetitive motion injury from his relentless practice for the perfect index finger “waggle” tremolo technique to imitate the sustained tones of the violin. Described as an “overdeveloped muscle” it is likely that he had what is now known as focal dystonia.



To continue with his tremolo style, he developed a system of using a leather plectrum with an elastic look that he could attach to his index finger. This allowed him to switch back and forth, using the pick for tremolo and fingers for everything else.



Those recordings are plectrum style.



He claimed to have patented the pick but I have located no patent.

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I heard that, but I didn't know when he developed the motion injury. I don't know The Moszkowski arrangement I don't know how you could play that plectrum style. He's clearly using his thumb to play the chords underneath. Not that I don't believe you. I just don't understand I guess. I could tape a pick to my fingers so I don't develop that same problem. Then again there are tons of flamenco and classical guitar players who somehow don't develop that problem. What I mean by thumb tremolo is he's quickly plucking with the thumb and pushing the thumb back through the string.

Edited by - Kellie on 08/31/2024 21:05:42

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/31/2024:  22:47:13

Auto correct changed "loop" to "look", so the plectrum had an elastic "loop" that he used to attached the pick to his index finger. Look at the catalog image I added. I have made some of these picks and they work. One may switch back and forth. The tremolo with accompaniment you are hearing is called by pick players "duo style". He could switch from pick playing to fingerstyle with no lost of time.

I am sorry you don't understand, there is a lot to learn and you are jumping into advanced questions.

Regarding opinions of Farland.

In his 1956 Hobbies Magazine interview with Jim Walsh, Fred Van Eps said "I have always been a strong believer in restricting the banjo to the type of music for which it's suited. To my way of thinking, the late Alfred A. Farland, my Plainfield neighbor who died May 5, 1954, at the age of 88, was a pathetic example of the banjoist who goes wrong. All his professional career Mr. Farland tried to adopt the banjo to types of classical music for which it was unfitted. When Vess Ossman was interviewed by BMG more than 50 years ago he pointed out this fallacy of Farland's. I once paid Farland for a course of instruction and when he wanted me to play Hauser's "Cradle Song" I quit in disgust. It isn't the question of classical or otherwise, it's the type. There are plenty of rhythmic numbers that are effective in both classes".

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/31/2024:  22:54:23

Farland's arrangement of Serenata attached below.

Serenata Farland

 

trapdoor2 - Posted - 09/01/2024:  04:38:55

youtu.be/aPw_0S8FwVE?feature=shared

This is Moszkowski's piano arrangement. Frankly, I think Farland was trying too hard. His recording seems like a cruel travesty, even if his technique was interesting.

OTOH, I think Stewart's arrangement of Moszkowski's "Spanish Dance #1" is much better suited to the banjo.

Kellie - Posted - 09/01/2024:  17:49:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Auto correct changed "loop" to "look", so the plectrum had an elastic "loop" that he used to attached the pick to his index finger. Look at the catalog image I added. I have made some of these picks and they work. One may switch back and forth. The tremolo with accompaniment you are hearing is called by pick players "duo style". He could switch from pick playing to fingerstyle with no lost of time.



I am sorry you don't understand, there is a lot to learn and you are jumping into advanced questions.



Regarding opinions of Farland.



In his 1956 Hobbies Magazine interview with Jim Walsh, Fred Van Eps said "I have always been a strong believer in restricting the banjo to the type of music for which it's suited. To my way of thinking, the late Alfred A. Farland, my Plainfield neighbor who died May 5, 1954, at the age of 88, was a pathetic example of the banjoist who goes wrong. All his professional career Mr. Farland tried to adopt the banjo to types of classical music for which it was unfitted. When Vess Ossman was interviewed by BMG more than 50 years ago he pointed out this fallacy of Farland's. I once paid Farland for a course of instruction and when he wanted me to play Hauser's "Cradle Song" I quit in disgust. It isn't the question of classical or otherwise, it's the type. There are plenty of rhythmic numbers that are effective in both classes".

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I was talking to a classical guitarist and he said tremolo technique of that type produces a boring texture anyway. It's a shame that contemporaries viewed him with such... I can't really think of the right word honestly. Disdain? Disrespect? Farland was (I genuinely believe) trying to enter the banjo into the classical canon by playing it as none had before him much like Franz Liszt for the piano,  Nicolo Pagannini for the violin, and Giulio Briccialdi for the flute. I guess you can't revolutionize playing and composition in the classical world without the instrument first existing there. Then again he was probably just looked down upon as a lowly minstrel playing an instrument that was used for little more than mocking the African Diaspora in his day for his whole life. And we could possibly make the argument that he simply tried to do it at a time where prejudice towards the instrument as well as the music held him back. Then there's the technology of the time which wasn't great for making his banjo actually audible in a concert hall. I guess I just like to think that's the case...

csacwp - Posted - 09/02/2024:  09:38:44

So Farland is your hero, but you reject the technique he's famous for? I think you need to slow down and take some time to work on the fundamentals of classic banjo playing before jumping to these sorts of conclusions.

Wyrd - Posted - 09/02/2024:  11:15:03

There were certainly classic banjo players who were contemporary to Farland who played to a high standard, and by the late 1800's the idea that it was simply a "lowly minstrel instrument" was an outdated concept. There were probably people who felt that way, but banjo players played for large audiences and to "high class" ones occasionally, too. SS Stewart discusses the evolution of the banjo from that older style to the more refined style of the time in the "The Banjo Philosophically" which is a good read.

Horace Weston was famously invited to play for Queen Victoria, for example. P.C. Shortis allegedly played "before the present king and other rulers" and was called the "Paganini of the Banjo," at least by his local newspaper (newspapers.com/article/the-eve...28832489/).

The biggest issue is that many of these players did not write extensively in ways that have been well-preserved. Joel and ABF have done a good job preserving what they can, but it's certainly not all there. You can find pieces written by people that Stewart mentions (whether that is because they truly were the cream of the crop, as it were, or because some of them endorsed his banjos is maybe a matter of debate). Sometimes there are pieces arranged "in the style of" or named after other, apparently high quality, artists, too. There are relatively few high-quality recordings, too, because many of them rudely passed away before recording equipment became widely available. There certainly was a lot of high quality music out there, with people who believed that you could raise banjo music to a higher standard, within the confines of a particular style. Stewart mentions several artists who played to audiences of "thousands" and even Sweeney allegedly played in moderately-sized hall(s?) in New York in the 1840's when he was touring around. Concert halls designed for acoustic music often do a better job amplifying sound than you might expect.

In terms of how others viewed him, I think it's also important to remember that the academic style of the 1800's and early 1900's was a lot more combative and assertive than is common now. I've read a lot of older medical literature for work, and it uses very similar tones (I'm right, they're wrong, there can be no question that MY TECHNIQUE is the correct way). Given that Farland still published tutors there was clearly some audience for his work (and if I remember correctly, some of his writing uses a very similar bombastic tone).

Kellie - Posted - 09/03/2024:  05:28:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wyrd

There were certainly classic banjo players who were contemporary to Farland who played to a high standard, and by the late 1800's the idea that it was simply a "lowly minstrel instrument" was an outdated concept. There were probably people who felt that way, but banjo players played for large audiences and to "high class" ones occasionally, too. SS Stewart discusses the evolution of the banjo from that older style to the more refined style of the time in the "The Banjo Philosophically" which is a good read.



Horace Weston was famously invited to play for Queen Victoria, for example. P.C. Shortis allegedly played "before the present king and other rulers" and was called the "Paganini of the Banjo," at least by his local newspaper (newspapers.com/article/the-eve...28832489/).



The biggest issue is that many of these players did not write extensively in ways that have been well-preserved. Joel and ABF have done a good job preserving what they can, but it's certainly not all there. You can find pieces written by people that Stewart mentions (whether that is because they truly were the cream of the crop, as it were, or because some of them endorsed his banjos is maybe a matter of debate). Sometimes there are pieces arranged "in the style of" or named after other, apparently high quality, artists, too. There are relatively few high-quality recordings, too, because many of them rudely passed away before recording equipment became widely available. There certainly was a lot of high quality music out there, with people who believed that you could raise banjo music to a higher standard, within the confines of a particular style. Stewart mentions several artists who played to audiences of "thousands" and even Sweeney allegedly played in moderately-sized hall(s?) in New York in the 1840's when he was touring around. Concert halls designed for acoustic music often do a better job amplifying sound than you might expect.



In terms of how others viewed him, I think it's also important to remember that the academic style of the 1800's and early 1900's was a lot more combative and assertive than is common now. I've read a lot of older medical literature for work, and it uses very similar tones (I'm right, they're wrong, there can be no question that MY TECHNIQUE is the correct way). Given that Farland still published tutors there was clearly some audience for his work (and if I remember correctly, some of his writing uses a very similar bombastic tone).

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Paganini of the banjo huh? I have seen his home sweet home variations and yeah that's apt.

Yeah I guess it was just a manner of speaking at the time

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/03/2024:  07:23:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wyrd

 You can find pieces written by people that Stewart mentions (whether that is because they truly were the cream of the crop, as it were, or because some of them endorsed his banjos is maybe a matter of debate). Sometimes there are pieces arranged "in the style of" or named after other, apparently high quality, artists, too.

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I am wondering if you could elaborate on this "in the style of" as this is the first I have heard it.

We have compositions by people that were published by SSS, I have seen enough manuscript music to have no reason to believe that these people were not genuine. 

Then there are pieces composed by one person and arranged by another.  This could be due to the composers lack of skill.  For example, Fred Stuber's work was always written out for him. Perhaps he lacked the skills to write the music down.  Horace Weston was an "ear player" so Stewart wrote out his compositions that he published (and it is a good thing as otherwise we would have NO record of Weston's music. Ruby Brooks, also an ear player, had Harry Denton write out his work. 

Then there are arrangements that banjoists would make of ther people's work.  This would be a specific banjoist putting their own "bag of tricks" or style on an existing work. Examples of this would be Weston's Minor Jig arranged by Stewart.  Stewart's version is likely the way Stewart like to play it.  We see lots of "arrangements" and that was part of the tradition.  We also see arrangements of works from other instruments made for banjo.  

But I can't recall SSS publishing a piece "in the style of", but I don't have all that SSS published, only these:

archive.org/details/@joel_hook...by-number

plus the folios and instruction books he published.

I have yet to upload all of the "uncatalogued" numbers and will likely do that this winter. 

Regarding what SSS published and why, we will not ever know his motives but I suspect a lot of it was what was submitted to him for publication as well as popular requests that people heard and wanted to play. 

SSS composed a lot of pieces as well.

SSS also understood that his customer base was working class with 12 hour work days 6 days a week, heated their shaving water on a wood or coal stove, used kerosene, candles, or gas for lights, and walked to work.

The music needed to be somewhat playable to the average player.