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Dean T - Posted - 07/11/2024: 07:59:47
Interesting conversation on one of my FB banjo groups. Someone suggested to bring it up here, so here it is:
On a banjo tuned to open g, with string gauges being the same, is the 5th string at a higher tension than the 1st string?
This is the picture that started the conversation
Edited by - Dean T on 07/11/2024 08:20:13
sunburst - Posted - 07/11/2024: 08:06:41
Same tension. To demonstrate it to yourself, simply fret the 1st string at the 5th fret and observe that you get the same note as the open 5th string.
Dean T - Posted - 07/11/2024: 08:14:14
quote:
Originally posted by sunburst
Same tension. To demonstrate it to yourself, simply fret the 1st string at the 5th fret and observe that you get the same note as the open 5th string.
That's been my contention as well, as they play the same above the 5th fret. But this can be counterintuitive when stringing up a banjo, as the 1st string seems normal, but the 5th string seems like it is being pulled almost to its breaking point!
Edited by - Dean T on 07/11/2024 08:15:13
sunburst - Posted - 07/11/2024: 08:43:52
If we ignore gut, nylon, or other string material and consider steel strings only, 3 things determine pitch: string gauge, string length, and string tension. That means, if both strings are the same gauge and same pitch when fretted at the 5th fret (meaning same length), then tension must be the same. That should convince the skeptics in your conversation.
chuckv97 - Posted - 07/11/2024: 08:54:01
Bass strings are thicker for a reason,, the 5th string should really be a thinner gauge than the 1st...... I think,,, but you're also dealing with a shorter scale length, so ,,,,hmmm
Edited by - chuckv97 on 07/11/2024 08:55:33
Culloden - Posted - 07/11/2024: 09:08:35
If you get on the Just Strings website and look at banjo strings, some brands will have a chart that shows the tension of each string. D'Addario is one brand that does this. Click on any set and you will see the chart. The first and fifth strings are about the same tension.
http://juststrings.com
monstertone - Posted - 07/11/2024: 14:51:36
To my mind, the only valid reason for the 1st & the 5th to have differing tension would be due to the first sting being stretched very little when fretted @ the 5th fret verses the 5th having a pip (more tension) versus a RR spike more than the 1st string but less than the piped 5string.
banjo bill-e - Posted - 07/11/2024: 15:00:15
The same three factors apply to gut or nylon or any string material, the same as for steel.
Bruce Berry Banjos - Posted - 07/11/2024: 19:14:13
If you check the chart of D'adarrio string tension (as Mark suggested), you'll find that the 5th is actually at a slightly lower tension.
That's because the overall string tension is distributed from tailpiece to tuner.
The 1st string has just a wee bit more length beyond the nut that the 5th has beyond the pip.
So for them to both display the same relative tension when isolated at fret 5, the first has a bit more.
I suspect if the tension had been tested on a banjo with a tunneled 5th string (which has much more length beyond the pip), the difference would probably be reversed.
steve davis - Posted - 07/12/2024: 09:59:41
If Gramp had been a banjo player he would have said "It doesn't matter...that's just where you tune it."
Culloden - Posted - 07/13/2024: 09:45:49
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
If Gramp had been a banjo player he would have said "It doesn't matter...that's just where you tune it."
If my dad were still alive he would say, "Don't overthink the damn thing."
johnedallas - Posted - 07/18/2024: 01:36:45
I have a packet of Clifford Essex zither-banjo strings in front of me right now. The 1st is .009" steel and 5th is .010" steel. So in this case, the 1st and 5th would be under marginally different tension. With a capo at the 5th fret, the 5th string, with its slightly greater mass, would need slightly higher tension to sound in unison with the 1st.
Pomeroy - Posted - 07/18/2024: 02:12:09
There are 19th century texts (c.1870's) that advised the reader to choose a slightly higher gauge drone string than that used for the 1st string.
The advice here not to overthink it is spot on. Within the range of what is suitable for the string material, scale length and instrument type select (precise) string gauge(s) on what feels and sounds best to you.
Edited by - Pomeroy on 07/18/2024 02:18:26
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