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 Playing Advice: Clawhammer and Old-Time Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Not as terrible now


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/397869

jsinjin - Posted - 06/14/2024:  07:23:12


Hello all! Just posting my progress

I’ve been working with three 30 min practice sessions per day and only focusing on drills to hit each string without looking and I’ve gotten pretty good. I haven’t tried any songs or music, just timing to a metronome and I’ve written my own set of drills that bounces around from one string to the next. I’m not even working on strumming. I also have not decided on index vs middle finger so I’m doing both. I’ve noticed I have to change the angle slightly on my index compared to my middle finger and the hammer is louder on the index finger. I video it and compare the movements and review pretty regularly. At the moment I kind of prefer the index finger but I find I’m just as accurate with both.

I’m about to start working on the thumb chime (not sure what to call it).

When I have tentatively tried the thumb chime, the volume and timing is all over the place.

Is the thumb movement (starting for me with the fifth string and not with the drop thumb technique) a pull off sort of movement? I’ve worked hard to make sure my hand hammers correctly and the thumb rest occurs to then bounce the middle of my hand back up to the correct position to start the next hammer.

I want to begin to figure out how to properly make the movement for the thumb on the fifth string.


On the other side of things (I love theory and math) I have dove deep into the pool of chords, key and the structure of how the major and minor and seventh chords move around the neck. I’m not actually making them and practicing them with my hand but I’m doing all the background work I can reading and writing in my notebook. I also measured my strings and several of the frets to understand the relationship between the frequency and the lengths of the strings when tuned to a given note.

WHAT IM ASKING:

What advice is there for the movement of the thumb pull off for the fifth string only? I notice that I can make the sound as a pluck or a pull off and I wonder what specifically should be my focus for practice for the next few weeks.

Thanks for the advice.

Jsj

TScottHilton - Posted - 06/14/2024:  07:43:26


Here's the way I think about the right hand frailing/clawhammer motion: Your thumb should not pluck the the fifth string as a Scruggs player would. Instead, think of your thumb being in a fixed position, and simply following the rest of the hand down as it strikes the strings. Your thumb should sort of come to rest on the fifth string on the down stroke, and then as the rest of your hand comes back up, your thumb lifts off and sounds the string.

The way to practice this is by starting with just the ditty of the bum-ditty. In other words: down stroke with your middle or index, and in the same fluid downward motion, your thumb sounds the fifth string. Do that over and over and over: ditty, ditty, ditty, until that feels natural and unified as one motion. Once that is solid, then start practicing your full bum-ditty with two down strokes.

I hope this has not been a bunch of rambling nonsense.

blazo - Posted - 06/14/2024:  07:59:44


Check out Tom Collin's videos on youtube. Here's one specifically about the thumb. youtube.com/watch?v=lL8UKUiQluk


Edited by - blazo on 06/14/2024 08:00:00

jsinjin - Posted - 06/14/2024:  08:26:45


Thanks for this. Yea. I’m not even close to the bun ditty yet as I really want good mechanics. I’m going with a minimum of 100 hours of practice on each technique before moving to the next one. That’s just me and how I do things. I’m way more about the technical side of stuff than learning the songs right now. Songs frustrate me at the moment.

thisoldman - Posted - 06/14/2024:  18:50:09


A week ago you were thinking you might never get to where you are today. And now look at you! Take pride in those little steps, and as you string those together you will be getting better and better.

jsinjin - Posted - 06/14/2024:  19:42:19


quote:

Originally posted by thisoldman

A week ago you were thinking you might never get to where you are today. And now look at you! Take pride in those little steps, and as you string those together you will be getting better and better.






It was very frustrating trying to hit the bottom string thousands of times and never eeeming to be able to hit it.   If I hadn't taken the forage down frame by frame and studied I don't think I would have stuck with it.   Now I've learned that I have to do that kind of study and practice for each movement.  The "keep your hand loose" wasn't working for me.   I'm glad I shifted to that method to learn.

thisoldman - Posted - 06/15/2024:  04:55:57


jsinjin I think I've got it now. One of the pieces of advice that is given now and then to beginners is to hold something like a credit card in your hand to get the proper spacing between thumb and picking finger. Another problem I've read about (and seen in videos) is "flicking" the picking finger rather than keeping it "still". Flicking the finger can lead to problems with accuracy.

Bart Veerman - Posted - 06/15/2024:  12:39:54


"what specifically should be my focus for practice for the next few weeks"

1) learning how to NOT switch off the creative hemisphere of your brain as its function is to help you put all your scientific theories and discoveries into a musical perspective

2) allow the creative hemisphere of your brain to assist you in identifying which are the proper actions to create the sounds/tones you want

No point in devoting 100 hours per specific task. Ask your fingers to find the notes to Old MacDonald or whatever song turns you on.

Banjos and music are all about having fun, go have some already!

jsinjin - Posted - 06/15/2024:  14:28:58


Ha!

I don’t enjoy things unless they’re extremely technical. I enjoy rote practice over long time periods. My joy is discipline. I once spent two years learning card shuffles and flourishes and dealing. I don’t even play cards; I was just fascinated by the technical work. Same thing with rowing. I’ll never race but I love the hours of trying to perfect my catch drive finish and recovery. It’s just the joy of the repeat motion being perfect as the sun comes up. I love the idea of banjo practice not to play music but because I don’t have to think about work while I’m practicing.

I haven’t tried any songs yet mostly because I know I’ll be frustrated by the difficulty before I learn the techniques.

I’m the weirdo who loved doing all the homework problems in college; not for the grade or help on the exams but just because the discipline made me feel good.

Owen - Posted - 06/15/2024:  15:17:38


John, does having an organized goal [that's probably not the right word] matter? Would you get the same degree of satisfaction from doing a "good" thumb pluck. as you would, let's say for example, learning to perfectly speak an inane phrase in a .... pick one, or several.... foreign language(s) ... or reciting a list of all the varieties of winter wheat grown in Kansas, or .... ?????   If you don't need to incorporate the separate skills into something useful [eg.music in this case] or would a series of unrelated/inconsequential "skills" get 'er done?   [I'm a retired teacher ... part of that time as an uncertified Spec. Ed. teacher, so I find this kinda intriguing.]


Edited by - Owen on 06/15/2024 15:21:56

jsinjin - Posted - 06/15/2024:  21:03:09


quote:

Originally posted by Owen

John, does having an organized goal [that's probably not the right word] matter? Would you get the same degree of satisfaction from doing a "good" thumb pluck. as you would, let's say for example, learning to perfectly speak an inane phrase in a .... pick one, or several.... foreign language(s) ... or reciting a list of all the varieties of winter wheat grown in Kansas, or .... ?????   If you don't need to incorporate the separate skills into something useful [eg.music in this case] or would a series of unrelated/inconsequential "skills" get 'er done?   [I'm a retired teacher ... part of that time as an uncertified Spec. Ed. teacher, so I find this kinda intriguing.]




I like to perfect things especially steps and technical details.  Always have.   I don't really have a goal for songs on the banjo at least right now.  Languages are great.  My goal with them isn't to write poetry; it's to learn the language efficiently and be able to converse.  

 



I think that by spending time perfecting the technical parts when I do try the songs it will be easier.







 

Bart Veerman - Posted - 06/16/2024:  06:50:44




it's to learn the language efficiently and be able to converse.  

 


A proven method: "ma ma," "da, da," not "OK little one, let's first learn the alphabet and practice that until you can do that properly." Music isn't exactly a language but it has a lot of similarities to it.



But, of course, whatever works...



 

jsinjin - Posted - 06/16/2024:  12:58:50


Absolutely true for many cases! I appreciate everyone’s feedback and will absolutely take it under consideration. For me personally, I have learned that any language i have studied works much better for me to study the theory, conjugation, masculine and feminine, expression of plurals and singular, present and past and the general framework first otherwise i get very frustrated. Math was not enjoyable until the fundamental theorem of calculus, chemistry wasn’t enjoyable without bond theory and physical chemistry topics and very few stories were enjoyable before I read hero with a thousand faces. I’m not a writer and would never try to write but for me to enjoy the books it made me wonder why the author chose things. I don’t want to become a banjo player, I just want to learn the mechanics of playing the banjo. Mostly because it’s interesting to me. I couldn’t name a single song or recognize a single piece of music on banjo except the portion of Don’t drink the water by Dave Matthew’s band, wagon wheel popularized by Darius Rucker and callin Baton Rouge by Garth brooks. Not one single old time song, not a single type. I only recently learned the Scruggs vs clawhammer because the banjo I bought it turns out has a scoop neck that is evidently for clawhammer according to a few people. So I picked it. I then picked out a class online that I paid for then I dove in with theory books. I don’t know anyone who plays bluegrass or old time music. I’m at 80-90 percent travel for work but I’ve made it a point to take the banjo and practice. I just want to learn the theory and play well. Maybe take a year or two of practicing drills. I don’t mind the wait. I have no frustration with not playing songs or playing with people. I’m just trying to learn how to best hit the strings with my index or middle finger and get down timing and theory. Even though this is not the normal approach I bet it will let me develop good mechanics.

Owen - Posted - 06/16/2024:  14:56:45


Onto a tangent, but it does involve "process" ...



I was administering a grade placement test to a 14ish year old.  The question was a partly shaded grid with L and W marked in centimeters, similar to this one:



What percent of the grid is shaded? | Download Scientific Diagram



The question was: "What is the area of the unshaded part?"   But I only got as far as "What is the area .... " when the student interjected with the correct answer*.  I was interested in his "process," so after we'd finished, I asked him [expecting either that he'd added/subtracted]. His answer: "I just knowed it."



* = He left out the "square" part of the answer, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt.



 


Edited by - Owen on 06/16/2024 15:02:42

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