jesussaves - Posted - 04/28/2024:  15:35:26

Don't get me wrong. Over all and in general, I'd rather jam in a group these days than not at all. But I remember the life that jams back in the day had. Some of this "non life" jams may be dead to me because I've been doing this for 40 years.

But back then, you didn't have a neat little circle or have "turns" or automatic tuners. It was raw, and the rawness made it as special as the music. It wasn't as woke or politically correct as we are today. I loved those times. People, musicians alike, actually listened to the chord changes and the vocals and the soul of the sound. Today, when it gets your turn you call out the key because nobody can figure it out on their own, make sure you're in tune according to the tuner, because no one can tune on their own, and if you need it, someone has offered an iPod with a stand and the words to the songs (and the chord changes). Sigh. And then while you're singing yours, the next in line is already queuing up their song on their tablet.

Sorry, but it's all too true.

Foote - Posted - 04/28/2024:  16:49:26

I agree with much of what you said, but I do like tuners. I've been playing almost 50 years and I remember jams trying to figure who I should try to tune to. But as for woke, I recently was at a jam and did "Big Spike Hammer" only to be told by a female guitar player (a good friend for many years) that the song was upsetting to her because implied violence to women ("I'll get even some day"). I guess Pretty Polly would really be over the line! At least I didn't use the wrong pronoun for anyone(s).

steve davis - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:04:49

So now someone has to attach "woke" to electronic tuners?...Wow!
I love tuners compared to the old days of "tune to the harmonica".
Now,when we show up at jams (3 a week) everybody's already in tune and we can jump right into the first tune.

If "woke" means saving time and aggravation getting in tune just call me "Woke and proud of it."

mike gregory - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:06:35

Nearest open mic is sixty some miles, so it's a rare treat.
And those not on stage can sit at their tables and pick along.
The key is announced, out of simple courtesy to all, including the newbies.

Some time ago, I sat near a newby (she had her guitar out) and told her that Foggy Mtn Breakdown was just 3 chords, and spoke them as the people on stage played them.
Since every previous time she's seen it done there, it was done with such excellence, she thought it must be VERY difficult.
She's been OK with it ever since.

For those of you within 70 or 100 miles of Waterford, Wisconsin, it's at Marty's on Main street, every first and third Wednesday.
6PM to 9

steve davis - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:20:00

What does "politically correct" have to do with getting in tune and having fun playing music?

Fathand - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:24:08

I appreciate people being in tune. Tuners speed up the process.

I'd rather call out a key and any odd chords than try to play and or sing with half the people not playing in the right key til the last verse. Most people don't read banjo chords as well as they do guitar chords.

I'll agree that a person leading a song at a jam should know it and not be trying to learn it from a book or tablet during a jam. I've seen enough blank stares into books and heard enough soulless singing and playing mistakes that could have been learned at home.

In Big Spike Hammer, the "woman or hammer will be the death of" Big Bill. Maybe it implies violence against men.

Ultimately, you could avoid some public jams and create private jams with players of a skill level that fits your desires.

Fathand - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:30:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

What does "politically correct" have to do with getting in tune and having fun playing music?

---

I think the "woke" and PC issues relate to some lyrics. I was once told people wouldn't sing Old Spinning Wheel because the couple in the song was singing Old Black Joe.  They now sing soft and low if I sing it. Lyrics are easily changed.

Edited by - Fathand on 04/28/2024 17:31:26

PKM - Posted - 04/28/2024:  17:40:33

I'm sorry but this strikes as just a random rant, longing for the way things were, and unable to cope with change for the better.
And while you're at it, lest add: Kids today can't drive a manual shift, I remember when a 2 x 4 was really 2" x 4", and in the good old day I could.... yada, yada, yada...

Get a grip. You're playing a banjo, for goodness sake ! Thats just cool, and enjoy that you're fortunate to do it with others who love the music. My grandmother had a saying, "He has indigestion, from food that is too good."

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/28/2024:  18:40:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by ilinoyer

Don't get me wrong. . . .Sorry, but it's all too true.

---

Don't get me wrong, but (in my opinion) it's also true that . . .

The neat little circle with turns means after each song someone's going to call the next song and that's what we're going to play because that's the rule. That replaces the old days of "What do you want you play?" "I don't know, what do you want to play?" "How about Old Home Place?" "No. I don't want to play that one." etc . . .

Electronic tuners mean more people play in tune, so the music sounds better.

Circles and tuners have nothing to do with rawness, which to me is about how people approach and play the music. If you equate raw with out-of-tune, then I believe most people are going to disagree with you.

I'm not even going touch the complaint about woke or politically correct other than to ask why you have to resort to code words rather than say exactly what you mean?

As to people listening (or not) to chord changes and the sound of the music, there are different levels of jams for people of different musical abilities. I play at plenty of advanced jams where people are expected to be able to listen to what's happening so they can hear the changes, improvise, and contribute to the sound. But, even at advanced jams, it's always considered basic jam etiquette to announce the key in advance. A brief statement of the progression (in numbers) is always appreciated. How else are people supposed to play the first chord if they don't know (1) the number of the first chord, and (2) the key of the song?  How else are people who might use a capo for a song in A, B-flat, or B (just examples), supposed to have the capo on the right fret ready to go if the person calling the song doesn't announce the key before playing song?

iPads with lyrics have simply replaced the notebooks, binders, and loose sheets with lyrics from the good old days. Actually, I still see lyrics on paper at every jam I attend. It does not offend me to play music with people who can't remember the lyrics to every song they may to sing.  Someone's silently cuing up their iPad song sheet while the preceding song is being played,maybe to save time between songs? What's this world coming to?

Owen - Posted - 04/28/2024:  19:06:43

Cuing up for the next song???  What a novel idea!!!    

I go to a couple of jams [maybe mostly classic (?) country] where more often than not the next person up seems to be totally taken by surprise: wha?  me?  huh? ... rifle thru a couple of pages of stuff ... shuffle up toward the mic ... ooops! where are my glasses?? ... key of "D"  ... start out ... nope I can't sing that high, lets try "B," ... etc., etc., etc."  I haven't timed anything, but I figure the "switch over" probably takes at least half as long as the actual playing.  

But we all manage and nobody complains.  

Tongue-in-cheek, I like "listen to chord changes," 'cept for some it's, "listen for chord changes" and then resort to watching somebody else's fat little fretting fingers [and deal with capos, bass runs, mistakes, etc.]. 

Edited by - Owen on 04/28/2024 19:12:11

doryman - Posted - 04/28/2024:  20:06:38

I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept of jams being too woke and politically correct these days. What, exactly, would a non-woke and politically incorrect jam look and sound like?

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 04/28/2024:  20:16:41

When it’s my turn in the jam I always try to do one in the key I’m already capo’d and tuned too but I’m certainly in the minority about considering that. Jams that make me move the capo on every song driver me batty. And my Scruggs Vega stays pretty much in tune.

Paul R - Posted - 04/28/2024:  20:20:51

I've been to different kinds of jams - still go - and some are waaay better than others.

At one regular one the banjo player beside me told me to look around. Everyone was staring at the screen and mechanically strumming. Listening? I'm not sure how many knew how to listen.

At another jam, we tend to pay attention and give each other space, ask specific pickers to play breaks, and have a great time.

The difference? Size. Apart from the level of competence (lots of basic level/beginners at the first) is the size of the jam (way fewer people at the second). The bigger the jam, the more the hassle it is. Small jams are intimate and tend to be more competently run.

We had a Bluegrass jam here that started out okay, but attracted more and more people over the years - pretty much all guitar players (and not exactly good ones) - and became a mess. It didn't help that some folks didn't grasp what a "Bluegrass" jam was about. Some of us would go into a back room for a better experience.

I often use a paper copy when jamming, 'cause I'm working out a new song. I try to avoid cheat sheets at an open mic or other performance. If you "know" a song, you don't need an aid. Conversely, if you say you "learned" a song and you are still using a sheet (or worse, a tablet), sorry, you haven't learned it. (A really annoying aspect of the first jam mentioned above, is the use of a tablet and projector. It takes a small eternity to find and project the song, and sometimes it isn't on the list, so someone with another tablet will say, "I'll send it to you." And that takes more time. Over a two-hour stretch you get to lead two songs. Ridiculous. It's not much of a learning experience.)

As for tuners, I used a choral pitch pipe for years. When I got an electronic tuner, I checked the pitch pipe and found it was flat! The days of tuning a guitar to itself or to a record are over. Lots of recorded songs from way back are not in pitch.

chuckv97 - Posted - 04/28/2024:  20:43:12

I’m still trying to find a “non-woke” jam so’s I can lead “Salty Dog Blues”…..

candkath - Posted - 04/28/2024:  20:56:34

Agree with you 100%. ilinoyer. Just came back from one of those jams you described. Brutal

chuckv97 - Posted - 04/28/2024:  21:16:23

If the PC police are present one could sing “I’ll be leaving some day” in BSH

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/28/2024:  23:36:12

Whatever you social & political feelings, if you want to play in a bluegrass jam, leave them at the door. Same goes for traditional folk music. Both genres have a lot that’s offensive to many people, because they reflect times and beliefs long gone and long abandoned. That’s the catch with tradition—whether musical or otherwise. Because it’s reflected in a song does not mean endorsement or practice. So, for the purposes of jams at least, I’m with Eagles: “Get Over It.”

eagleisland - Posted - 04/29/2024:  04:23:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Whatever you social & political feelings, if you want to play in a bluegrass jam, leave them at the door. Same goes for traditional folk music. Both genres have a lot that’s offensive to many people, because they reflect times and beliefs long gone and long abandoned. That’s the catch with tradition—whether musical or otherwise. Because it’s reflected in a song does not mean endorsement or practice. So, for the purposes of jams at least, I’m with Eagles: “Get Over It.”

---

Perfectly said, Bill!

If there's one song that I find incredibly cringe-y, and have for a long time due to the bitterness and misogyny in it, it's "Rock Salt and Nails" from the classic Rounder 0044 album (JD Crowe and the New South). Yet it's still a remarkable song!

wrench13 - Posted - 04/29/2024:  05:57:56

What I find remarkably different about jams say 20-40 years ago to today is that the new pickers are right there in the inner circle with the A listers. Back in the day, there was the inner circle of good pickers, then an outer circle of decent but not yet 100% there players. Then there was the outer circle of Hell, where I learned much. One jam, in Central Park on Sundays, the likes of Tony Triska, Bill Keith, Andy Statman, Kenny Kosek and that level of player was the inner circle. Present day, I go to one jam session, where almost every player takes a break, even if they have nothing special to play. Nothing like laying down a great solo only the have the next person stomp it flat with a fumbled attempt at a basic blues riff instead of an actual break.

Maybe it's my own peeve, but this is what comes from the mentality that awards every participant a trophy. You want to call the tunes, and the keys? Take breaks every song? Get into that inner circle?

Play better!

fish1963 - Posted - 04/29/2024:  07:00:15

I was at a jam not long ago where I crossed off a "bucket item checkbox". Michael Jackson on the banjo. Seriously ... Man in the Mirror.

It's best to go into all jams with no expectations and be really chill and open to everything.

As far as bemoaning tuners ... playing with folks who are not in tune is devastating to a jam, especially if you are sitting right next to them. Tuners are really a requirement for most people at a jam.

Owen - Posted - 04/29/2024:  07:07:40

If there's a person in attendance that appears to have some sort of mental abnormality [maybe has even been described as "crazy"?]  or I think/know that they or their family has struggled (?) with mental illness, should I sing "I've Always Been Crazy" or should I save that one for my back deck?  

I think/wonder about such things after: a) reading where round bales with rubber boots on 2x4s sticking out one end  and a hat at the other are more than a little upsetting for people who have had a relative killed in a round baler accident, and b) I believe it was a doll that had been laying about the staff room. Somebody saw fit to make a noose and hang it from an overhead beam.  One of the teachers who had had a relative commit suicide by hanging  didn't see it as particularly "funny."

Fwiw, I like IABC, and can sometimes even hear/anticipate/?? the chord changes.

Edited by - Owen on 04/29/2024 07:12:47

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 04/29/2024:  07:13:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by fish1963

I was at a jam not long ago where I crossed off a "bucket item checkbox". Michael Jackson on the banjo. Seriously ... Man in the Mirror.



It's best to go into all jams with no expectations and be really chill and open to everything.

---

Did the person who called Man in the Mirror pull it off?

Agree about no expectations. Open jams can be good to find new people to play with outside the open jam, but sometimes I have to disassociate from what's going on musically.

fish1963 - Posted - 04/29/2024:  07:26:56

He did!!! It was not strictly a bluegrass jam. They play anything from old fiddle tunes to Fleetwood Mac.



My break floundered .. .but I gave it try anyway!!! Some of these non bluegrass tunes really help you open the banjo up to melodics and single string.

Edited by - fish1963 on 04/29/2024 07:27:46

szbassoon - Posted - 04/29/2024:  07:39:11

And this is why my Concert Tone has been packed away in storage for months.

Doesn't matter how good (or bad) you are, all you're going to do is piss off other musicians and waste their time. After a while, I just got sick of wasting their time.

And also, don't lie something? Just call it woke!

doryman - Posted - 04/29/2024:  08:05:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by wrench13

What I find remarkably different about jams say 20-40 years ago to today is that the new pickers are right there in the inner circle with the A listers. Back in the day, there was the inner circle of good pickers, then an outer circle of decent but not yet 100% there players. Then there was the outer circle of Hell, where I learned much. One jam, in Central Park on Sundays, the likes of Tony Triska, Bill Keith, Andy Statman, Kenny Kosek and that level of player was the inner circle. Present day, I go to one jam session, where almost every player takes a break, even if they have nothing special to play. Nothing like laying down a great solo only the have the next person stomp it flat with a fumbled attempt at a basic blues riff instead of an actual break.



Maybe it's my own peeve, but this is what comes from the mentality that awards every participant a trophy. You want to call the tunes, and the keys? Take breaks every song? Get into that inner circle?



Play better!

---

Oh, there are still plenty of jams around here with the various circles of competency you describe, especially at festivals. 

RioStat - Posted - 04/29/2024:  08:15:23

I consider myself lucky that I'm a "member" of a regular group of 4-5 guys that get get together and pick a couple times a month.

Between the main 4 guys we have guitar pickers, mandolin, a little fiddle, and an upright bass players. I'm the only banjo picker (I also play Bluegrass rhythm guitar) so we normally have some good jams. Me and the one guitar/mandolin picker been playin' together off and on for 4o years, so there's some musical chemistry there, such as splitting breaks between guitar/mandolin and banjo.

We can sit there and BS a little bit, drink a beer or two, we might pick the same tune 3 or 4 or 5 times, trying out different breaks, etc..... no pressure, no rapid fire "one song after another" mindset..... If it takes us 5 minutes to capo up and re-tune a little bit, no big deal.

If Polly, or Poor Ellen Smith, or that girl from Knoxville meets their demise, no one gets upset,.......they'll be back for the next jam !

We used to go some local jams, but gave up for some of the reasons alluded to in this thread. All of us still enjoy pickin' with other people at festival campsites and what-not, but even those situations are more relaxed and informal that an "organized" jam.

Eulalie - Posted - 04/29/2024:  08:16:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by PKM

I'm sorry but this strikes as just a random rant, longing for the way things were, and unable to cope with change for the better.

And while you're at it, lest add: Kids today can't drive a manual shift, I remember when a 2 x 4 was really 2" x 4", and in the good old day I could.... yada, yada, yada...



Get a grip. You're playing a banjo, for goodness sake ! Thats just cool, and enjoy that you're fortunate to do it with others who love the music. My grandmother had a saying, "He has indigestion, from food that is too good."

---

I agree with your comments by and large, but there is an aspect of honoring tradition that is a significant part of the context of traditional social music.  When the rough edges of that tradition have to be filed off to ensure no one is hurt (or files a lawsuit), then you are certainly outside of the tradition and miles away from the context of the music.  It's no longer traditional and instead represents 21st-century cultural norms.  Some of us geezers don't appreciate 21st-century cultural norms

EricKimball - Posted - 04/29/2024:  08:31:46

I might be missing something obvious to some of the more tenured old-time / bluegrass players in this group so sorry if it seems like I'm wasting anyone's time here. I'm trying to reckon with two ideas at the same time here based on some posts in this thread, and I'm trying to understand where the issue lays with revising songs / not playing certain songs at someone's request in a jam:

1. Many of these old-time songs have different ways to play them AND different lyrics to sing while playing them. Maybe this is a naive understanding, correct me if I'm really off base, but those ways of playing and lyrics often changed because of who was singing the song, the audience listening to the song, even a misremembering of lyrics or changes. I'm thinking specifically of something like Darling Corey here. This seems generally accepted as 'part of the tradition'.
2. For some, it seems unacceptable to request lyrical changes to songs on the basis of another player at the jam's discomfort with the content of those songs. It also seems unacceptable to request that a song gets less (or no play) at a jam because of the content.

I suppose the real question is why point #2 seems to grind gears more than point #1, which seems generally accepted. I accept there's a space to preserve traditional lyrics for the sake of accurately representing history, but (genuine question) is a jam that space? Please let me know if I have misunderstood or misrepresented point 2, or if there's another thing I haven't considered about why #2 is frustrating. Perhaps that someone who falls into #2 risks looking like they're trying to ignore the very real history of these songs?

monstertone - Posted - 04/29/2024:  11:24:15

Today's tuners are small, discreet, & accurate far beyond anything available in the old days. Readily available for less than the price of a happy meal. There is no excuse for playing out of tune.

As far as I'm concerned, woke has no place in my world.

Knows Picker - Posted - 04/29/2024:  11:45:58

I dont know what more I can add, other than to say the darkest days are probably yet to come.

I volunteered to help the new music teacher at the elementary school with the "ukulele club."

Sure, I play uke, I like kids, and two of my kids go to that school. The club is for grades 2 through 6. My kids aren't in the club and I dont know what to expect but I begin by getting a little circle together so we can all tune up. The kids look at me like Im crazy. "Mister Herron says we don't need to tune."

I'm confused, I'm expecting Twinkle Twinkle or Are You Sleeping or maybe a holiday tune as this was last October.

The teacher shows up about 5 minutes late, thanks me for watching the kids and I tell him we haven't tuned up yet. Now HE looks at me like I'M crazy!!

Turns out their entire four song set is all rap music, no chords, barely a melody. No one touches the strings!! Mostly just the kids hitting the sound boards in time to the "music."

I almost cried on my way out.

Owen - Posted - 04/29/2024:  12:34:51

KP, I know you don't intend that ^^ to be funny ... so why am I laughing?  

KCJones - Posted - 04/29/2024:  12:55:54

I'm envious of anyone who's been blessed with an open jam that is enjoyable long term.

For me, open jams have always served the purpose of meeting new players that I mesh with both personally and musically. They're basically a meet-and-greet, musical speed dating, if you will. And hopefully you connect with someone, and then invite them to more private "invite only" jams with a small group of musicians that have already established a rapport.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever witnessed a truly cohesive public open jam, they've always got the same issues that everyone has outlined in this thread and elsewhere. At festivals perhaps, but every regular recurring community open jam has always been chaos.

Go to the jam, play tastefully, be polite, and make friends. And then play the real music with those friends in a more private setting with other like-minded individuals.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/29/2024:  17:15:02

Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart held strong and diametrically opposed political views. Not wanting to destroy their close friendship, they simply put politics off limits when together. I’ve had similar friendships.

O.D. - Posted - 04/29/2024:  18:01:53

I like to jam with you tube.
Timing is real good
Nobody complains
I get to choose the songs/tunes and it is an easy comute
Regards,
E

Paul R - Posted - 04/29/2024:  20:06:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Knows Picker

I dont know what more I can add, other than to say the darkest days are probably yet to come.



I volunteered to help the new music teacher at the elementary school with the "ukulele club."



Sure, I play uke, I like kids, and two of my kids go to that school. The club is for grades 2 through 6. My kids aren't in the club and I dont know what to expect but I begin by getting a little circle together so we can all tune up. The kids look at me like Im crazy. "Mister Herron says we don't need to tune."



I'm confused, I'm expecting Twinkle Twinkle or Are You Sleeping or maybe a holiday tune as this was last October.



The teacher shows up about 5 minutes late, thanks me for watching the kids and I tell him we haven't tuned up yet. Now HE looks at me like I'M crazy!!



Turns out their entire four song set is all rap music, no chords, barely a melody. No one touches the strings!! Mostly just the kids hitting the sound boards in time to the "music."



I almost cried on my way out.

---

Stuff happens. What I find sad about that is that there's so little learning going on. As a classroom teacher (not music specialist) I taught music and conducted choirs. There was always something good on the back end, whether a performance or musical instruments the kids made. Your kids' teacher is a lot like some jam leaders who really aren't skilled enough and don't/can't make demands of the participants. (A Canadian comedian once remarked, "Judging from all the hockey trophies I have, I was a really good participant.") Our Bluegrass jam was there just for sitting in and playing. There was no active means of teaching newbies how to jam, nor what would constitute Bluegrass music. Thus people trying rock 'n' roll and other stuff that didn't fit. There were people who didn't seem to be actively listening. I offered to take newbies aside and do some coaching, but, when I did so, was told that it was time to start and everyone had to get into the circle. There were good days when a few of us would break off and head for the back room. Between songs we could hear the hollering/caterwauling from the main circle.

One good thing that has come out of a couple of jams: Four of us (fiddle, guitar, banjo, guitar & banjo) meet weekly at my place for an intimate jam/practice session. It's great when pickers mesh.

stanleytone - Posted - 04/30/2024:  04:26:29

If anyone ever objects to playing Dixie in a jam......grrrrr.
youtu.be/OAqLNzYsQlE?si=kwsbU3yraLgB0fLj
I actually have tab to Little Roys breaks in my photos section.

mud400 - Posted - 04/30/2024:  06:29:14

After reading all these I have a few questions.
I don't go to jams or festivals, so I have no experience in this.
Are there still as many jams as there used to be?
Has the demographic changed any, or is still the same folks?

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 04/30/2024:  06:54:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

I'm envious of anyone who's been blessed with an open jam that is enjoyable long term.



For me, open jams have always served the purpose of meeting new players that I mesh with both personally and musically. They're basically a meet-and-greet, musical speed dating, if you will. And hopefully you connect with someone, and then invite them to more private "invite only" jams with a small group of musicians that have already established a rapport.



Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever witnessed a truly cohesive public open jam, they've always got the same issues that everyone has outlined in this thread and elsewhere. At festivals perhaps, but every regular recurring community open jam has always been chaos.



Go to the jam, play tastefully, be polite, and make friends. And then play the real music with those friends in a more private setting with other like-minded individuals.

---

Yeah, the practices the original poster objects to are pretty much only found in open jams. (I co-host such a jam myself). Going around the circle to pick the next song makes sense in that setting; song suggestions are usually more fluid in a small jam of experienced pickers.



What I do object to, though is the mindlessness of going around the circle for the order of breaks. It makes it too easy for participants to retreat into their own little worlds. I mean, why bother paying attention if you know your break is coming right after that next chorus? Breaks handed out arbitrarily by the song leader makes for a much more interactive experience. I always do that when I'm leading a song, but I earnestly wish I could get everyone else doing it, too.



A problem with all this, as I see it, is that many people get their first--and formative--experiences in open jams, and assume that's the way it is, should be, and always will be. IT ISN'T.

KCJones - Posted - 04/30/2024:  08:00:55

It is the responsibility of the most senior/experienced members of any team to maintain the culture and practices of that team, and to foster growth of the inexperienced members of that team.

This includes open bluegrass jams.



If there's an issue with a jam you're in, and you're one of the more experienced people in that jam, speak up and say something. Teach and guide. Humans inherently desire leadership, mentorship, and direction, in all aspects of life. Give the people what they want, just don't be a jerk about it.

Edited by - KCJones on 04/30/2024 08:01:32

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/30/2024:  08:10:59

I'll play devil's advocate here:

I like jams where we play in a circle and each person gets the nod to take a break next. That person can either nod his/her head or shake no and it goes on. That way no one HAS to play a break and yet everyone gets a chance if they want to. No one feels left out or ignored.

I've seen jams where certain people never got a chance to take a break and eventually quit going. Maybe that was the reason, who knows, but it's very impolite not to include everyone or to purposefully snub a certain player.

Just my take, for what it's worth.

steve davis - Posted - 04/30/2024:  09:51:02

Unlike Owen's judgment of other jammers' mental problems I just go for the tunes and no judgments.
A jam is just a jam and doesn't need any analysis other than "Isn't it great how total strangers can come together for the purpose of having a good time doing what they love.

wrench13 - Posted - 04/30/2024:  10:03:58

Jams are not democracies. And not easy to negotiate. Yes, if the less experienced players are skipped for breaks, its unfair to them and they might not return. Like wise making the senior participants, that have put in their years of work, sit thru 4 or 5 consecutive 3 note breaks assures THEY will not keep coming back. Thats why discussing these points at the beginning or having a jam etiquette handout are good ideas. The music needs all kinds of players, beginers, advanced, mid-level, all of them. Trying to keep everyone happy is not easy and jam leaders/organizers are to be commited - i mean commended.

steve davis - Posted - 04/30/2024:  10:21:56

I attend 2-3 jams a week.They are from 4 to 12 miles away and don't have any rules other than respecting each participant's offering.
Those that want to (usually everyone) play along and every once in a while someone (next in the circle) plays something that just doesn't fly with everyone else and they end up playing a solo.
Nobody gets shook up...it just happens from time to time.
The person who introduced the tune has the "right" to assign a break if they want to and everybody's OK with that.

I like the surprises this loose set-up invites.

Owen - Posted - 04/30/2024:  10:29:11

Re. "....  I just go for the tunes and no judgments."

I'm glad your way works for you Steve. Maybe I'm misguided, but I prefer to show some consideration/concern/empathy for those around me.

Edited by - Owen on 04/30/2024 10:37:27

monstertone - Posted - 04/30/2024:  10:55:26

The jams I most enjoyed were the intimate jams among musicians of various calibers who, in time, became personal friends. All met either at BG festivals, or through one another. Everyone had their favorite resources, (tunes/idols) which were brought to the party. Very informal. Information & talents flowed in all directions.

All, of course, long before the internet. Friends like that were harder to come by.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/30/2024:  11:18:27

I've found the most fun jams are those where everyone is invited, regardless of experience. The more experienced help the newer ones, give them tips, ideas and even lessons on the side. The inexperienced ones learn something both about jamming and about playing. That, to me is what jams are all about.

I remember one jam where one of my banjo students showed up and wondered if she could play something. Everyone agreed and she actually took a break and did pretty well. She was so thrilled that she doubled up on her practice, bought a newer, better banjo and became a regular at the jams.

I've been to some of those closed jams and they are not what I want to be around. No one is invited in, newcomers are given the cold shoulder and/or ignored and told they aren't welcome. That's not a jam, that's a rehearsal.

I ran a slow jam for several years to help the newcomers get up to speed, learn how to play backup, change/hear chords, etc. Several of those people moved on to become good to excellent pickers. Without help from us experienced pickers, they would eventually have given up picking entirely.

doryman - Posted - 04/30/2024:  11:49:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Owen

Re. "....  I just go for the tunes and no judgments."

I'm glad your way works for you Steve. Maybe I'm misguided, but I prefer to show some consideration/concern/empathy for those around me.

---

Not that Steve needs defending, but his whole post was, "

Unlike Owen's judgment of other jammers' mental problems I just go for the tunes and no judgments.

A jam is just a jam and doesn't need any analysis other than "Isn't it great how total strangers can come together for the purpose of having a good time doing what they love."

I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty dang empathetic and considerate to me! 

Owen - Posted - 04/30/2024:  12:55:08

Well, John IF you look at my post, you'll undoubtedly see that I was simply asking [along with an example] whether showing some empathy/consideration for another person was an appropriate approach? .... sing something at the jam that might be reasonably foreseen as upsetting or save it for when I'm at home?   

Steve said "unlike Owen" which says he sees no need to extend similar consideration.   His "no judgment" tells me he sees no need to consider the feelings/conditions of others in choosing what to play or sing. 

Would it be appropriate to exercise no judgment and go full steam ahead with "Ring Of Fire" [to pick what might not be the best example] when there's somebody present with apparent disfigurement from having been burned?  If there's a song about somebody meeting his demise in a baler accident, would it be hunky-dory to sing that song knowing that guy's wife/cousin/brother/ etc. was present?

You and Steve can demonstrate your version of empathy/consideration; if it's all the same to you, I'll stick with mine.

Edited by - Owen on 04/30/2024 12:57:34

chuckv97 - Posted - 04/30/2024:  13:01:47

I sing Mama Tried at jams,, not one ex-con has ever threatened me or broke down sobbing.