STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  05:26:25

That's ah problum.....

Buddur - Posted - 03/26/2024:  05:40:04

Oops!

banjo bill-e - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:05:36

Wow, the whole thing came down in second! Search "Baltimore bridge" for a video. Horrible.

5B-Ranch - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:28:39

I am totally shocked how that bridge came down. I’ve seen video of bridges coming down by controlled demo. This bridge looked like it came down more efficiently. The container ship looked like it lost power regained power lost it again and then it was to late after the power came back.

steve davis - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:35:16

God be with those lost and those fighting for their lives.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:41:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Wow, the whole thing came down in second! Search "Baltimore bridge" for a video. Horrible.

---

I was a Combat Engineer...

Do not be suprised at how little it takes to do that..

Think high power lines as well as bridges..n..tunnels..

Mebee you shouldn't think about it

You may loose sleep... :0/

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:42:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

God be with those lost and those fighting for their lives.

---

Thankyou for this thought..n..post.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:44:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5B-Ranch

I am totally shocked how that bridge came down. I’ve seen video of bridges coming down by controlled demo. This bridge looked like it came down more efficiently. The container ship looked like it lost power regained power lost it again and then it was to late after the power came back.

---

Simple physics...

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:45:45

The real problum..
Is the ..Logistics....
After the bridge distruction..

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/26/2024:  06:53:53

The Francis Scott Key Bridge. This type of thing happens all the time just like train derailments, right???

steve davis - Posted - 03/26/2024:  07:24:00

Loaded 1000 foot container ship doing 6-8 knots has incredible wrecking power.
That it happened at 1:30 am saved a lot of lives.
It appears there was a construction crew of 6 lost so far.

eagleisland - Posted - 03/26/2024:  07:28:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

The Francis Scott Key Bridge. This type of thing happens all the time just like train derailments, right???

---

Uncommon, but not unprecedented. See: wbaltv.com/article/ships-barge.../60306153

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/26/2024:  12:21:59

According to one report the bridge was inspected in 2021. Its condition was rated “fair.” So maybe no surprise it collapsed so easily.

rdh - Posted - 03/26/2024:  13:05:03

so sorry to hear this news we had our bridge hit by a ship in 1972 in Hobart Tasmania , the Tasman bridge which joins western to eastern Hobart , many people perished ,the ship is still on the sea bed under the bridge , took years to rebuild ,
regards Rick

steve davis - Posted - 03/26/2024:  13:32:05

I don't know how much better a new bridge would do with a loaded freighter (cars) ramming it at 8 knots into its side.
Bridges are designed more for compression than sheer.

janolov - Posted - 03/26/2024:  14:35:58

We had a similar accident in Sweden 1980. Seven deaths, and it took more than 2 years to build a new bridge.

5B-Ranch - Posted - 03/26/2024:  14:43:48

It would have been worst but for the SOS the ship sent out which caused a stoppage of
traffic. The guys working on the road not so lucky.

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 03/26/2024:  15:50:44

Its amazing how easily things that take years to build come down in seconds. Im sure theres more to come, hopefully not soon.

That cargo ship bridge cant possibly have visuals less than 10 miles with 8-10 stories of cargo. Guess they know what theyre doing though.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/26/2024:  16:11:16

We take what we have..
For granted....

Life can change in an instant..

dflowers - Posted - 03/26/2024:  17:06:45

quote:Originally posted by STUD figmo AlWe take what we have..
For granted....

Life can change in an instant..

Amen to that, Al

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  04:11:35

So...
Once we get on with things...
How will this happening..
Affect...logistics ..of goods n commerce..?

Both shipping n trucking...

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  04:34:28

If....
If..one were to look at this from a Militairy point of view..

This would have been a raging .. Great Boon in warfare....

Hampering important supplys..

Not claiming that this is the case...
But the effect is all the same...

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/27/2024:  07:04:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

If....

If..one were to look at this from a Militairy point of view..



This would have been a raging .. Great Boon in warfare....



Hampering important supplys..



Not claiming that this is the case...

But the effect is all the same...

---

Hmmm.  We've been hit with bioweapon attacks, numerous attacks on our infrastructure, train derailments, food supply, energy sources, invasion of our southern border, numerous arson fires (that we are supposed to believe have to do with "climate change", and now this?  Where was the tugboat that was supposed to escort the ship?  Was the harbor master asleep? 

Look up 5th Generation warfare.  WW3 started four years ago and it's about to go fully kinetic on our home soil

GrahamHawker - Posted - 03/27/2024:  07:18:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Hmmm.  We've been hit with bioweapon attacks, numerous attacks on our infrastructure, train derailments, food supply, energy sources, invasion of our southern border, numerous arson fires (that we are supposed to believe have to do with "climate change", and now this?  Where was the tugboat that was supposed to escort the ship?  Was the harbor master asleep? 

Look up 5th Generation warfare.  WW3 started four years ago and it's about to go fully kinetic on our home soil

---

You just turn everything into a conspircacy and reject anyone who says sometimes an accident is an accident as part of the same conspiracy. Your whole like seems to be consumed by this stuff.

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/27/2024:  07:29:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by GrahamHawker

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Hmmm.  We've been hit with bioweapon attacks, numerous attacks on our infrastructure, train derailments, food supply, energy sources, invasion of our southern border, numerous arson fires (that we are supposed to believe have to do with "climate change", and now this?  Where was the tugboat that was supposed to escort the ship?  Was the harbor master asleep? 

Look up 5th Generation warfare.  WW3 started four years ago and it's about to go fully kinetic on our home soil

---

You just turn everything into a conspircacy and reject anyone who says sometimes an accident is an accident as part of the same conspiracy. Your whole like seems to be consumed by this stuff.

---

If you say so....what's your rationale for the lack of tug boat escort for this ship?

But take a step back and ask yourself this question.  If you could speak to yourself from say 2018 and tell yourself everything you have seen these past four years, what would your 2018 self say to you? 

eagleisland - Posted - 03/27/2024:  07:53:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

---

If you say so....what's your rationale for the lack of tug boat escort for this ship?

But take a step back and ask yourself this question.  If you could speak to yourself from say 2018 and tell yourself everything you have seen these past four years, what would your 2018 self say to you? 

---

According to various highly-knowledgeable sources I've seen (I follow commercial shipping for the simple reason that it interests me) ships leaving the Port of Baltimore routinely release the tugs before passing that bridge. There's plenty of water there and the channel is well-marked. They still had two pilots on board.

I've seen a surprising number of conspiracy theories on this incident so far - including a Twitter video in which someone claimed the routine flashing of warning beacons was claimed to be explosive charges.

And I am reminded of a fabulous quote from British author Alan Moore:

“The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.



The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control.



The world is rudderless.”

So, as it turns out, was the ship.

Edited by - eagleisland on 03/27/2024 07:54:58

GrahamHawker - Posted - 03/27/2024:  07:57:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

If you say so....what's your rationale for the lack of tug boat escort for this ship?

But take a step back and ask yourself this question.  If you could speak to yourself from say 2018 and tell yourself everything you have seen these past four years, what would your 2018 self say to you? 

---

I'd say I don't know what the working prodecures are with the port of Baltimore or if someone or some people made some big mistakes and I'm sure not going to make things up without knowing some facts.

I would say to myself except the same old **** show. In 2018 I knew how nutty the conspiracists were but I would say you'll find it hard to fathom how far and how much they have got on the show stage.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  08:35:30

I would like to know what failed on the ship...
N..how it came about..

Power failed..power came back..power failed..

Lots of black diesel exaust....
Why..?

There will be an investigation...

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  08:41:04

I seem to recall..tankers running into some of our Warships..i think in the Gulf..a few years back..

Not sure how or what that turned out or up..

eagleisland - Posted - 03/27/2024:  08:51:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

I seem to recall..tankers running into some of our Warships..i think in the Gulf..a few years back..



Not sure how or what that turned out or up..

---

I don't recall any specific incident matching that description but there HAVE been collisions between naval vessels and merchant ships in the past decade - and not just in this country,

One of the things that most people don't fully understand is that the senior officers on merchant ships generally have a LOT more time at sea than do most shipboard naval officers. In naval circles, the promotional track is expected to be a lot faster than it is in the merchant marine.

And I suspect that many here would be surprised at how many marine casualties - allisions such as this, running aground, fire, engine failures etc. - actually occur each year. Unless they happen close to our own shores, we generally don't hear about them.

Edited by - eagleisland on 03/27/2024 08:53:04

Buddur - Posted - 03/27/2024:  08:58:29

Not sure how they could see the bridge with all the shipping containers in the way. Furthermore, don't barges direct big ships in tight spaces like that?

eagleisland - Posted - 03/27/2024:  09:31:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buddur

Not sure how they could see the bridge with all the shipping containers in the way. Furthermore, don't barges direct big ships in tight spaces like that?

---

Visibility really isn't the issue here. In addition to the fact that the weather was clear, these ships have redundant radars and chartplotters. They could have taken the ship out safely in dense fog at night using electronics alone - were it not for losing their ability to maneuver the ship.

raybob - Posted - 03/27/2024:  09:56:11

Not only would they have sophisticated navigational aids, I would bet that Baltimore Harbor has a pilot system in place like many other ports where all the ships must have a special trained pilot on board as they pass through the port and the shipping channels etc. These pilots train for years at their specific port, and if they don't have the wheel in their hands they are at least standing next to the skipper telling him what to do as the ship passes through the port.
If the cargo ship was losing electrical power as it was making its way it might have been out of control for some time before it hit the bridge.

steve davis - Posted - 03/27/2024:  10:35:56

Very interesting call-in on Washington Journal this morning from a 97 year-old life-long mariner who very concisely spoke of the absence of tugs and the manual nature of releasing anchors and some other things.
Heavy ship traffic at 1:30 was addressed.
Seems to me that the absence of tugs anywhere near the bridge is wrong.
Public Radio had a few words on newer bridge design with "Bumpers" surrounding stantions.

Tractor1 - Posted - 03/27/2024:  10:55:54

wiki article on bumpers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_p...n_systems

steve davis - Posted - 03/27/2024:  11:00:28

200 million pounds of inertia.

Tractor1 - Posted - 03/27/2024:  11:07:01

We can't keep up with our progress on the third rock
global trading and modern energy sources are scary to me--under the surface junk and garbage is not given --as much thought as I would like ---at least with landfills we have to get our noses rubbed into our quest for happiness--

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  11:23:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by eagleisland

quote:

---

Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

I seem to recall..tankers running into some of our Warships..i think in the Gulf..a few years back..



Not sure how or what that turned out or up..

---

I don't recall any specific incident matching that description but there HAVE been collisions between naval vessels and merchant ships in the past decade - and not just in this country,

One of the things that most people don't fully understand is that the senior officers on merchant ships generally have a LOT more time at sea than do most shipboard naval officers. In naval circles, the promotional track is expected to be a lot faster than it is in the merchant marine.

And I suspect that many here would be surprised at how many marine casualties - allisions such as this, running aground, fire, engine failures etc. - actually occur each year. Unless they happen close to our own shores, we generally don't hear about them.

---

USS John S McCain & Tanker

21 August 2017

Off of Singapore...

N...

USS Fitzgerald & MV ACX Crystal

17 June 2017..

Thought it might have been the Gulf..

But collisions do happen..

Hope this helps.

5B-Ranch - Posted - 03/27/2024:  11:25:20

Seems to me if this was an act of some military or terror would it not be more logistical/logical to have done this during the busy traffic hours? And why send out a SOS warning? No I think this was just bad timing for a ship to lose navigational control.

although there's this thought of cyber attack and if the ships are connected to some network via satellite it could be a test run or a warning. How sinister if this was the truth.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

now you know why when you lose electricity at home and when it returns all appliances with motors seem to go haywire. 

Edited by - 5B-Ranch on 03/27/2024 11:33:53

South Jersey Mike - Posted - 03/27/2024:  13:45:27

I read that the cargo was millions of tin-foil hats.

5B-Ranch - Posted - 03/27/2024:  14:57:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Jersey Mike

I read that the cargo was millions of tin-foil hats.

---

You might want to change your source of information. Speaking of tin foil it does shield the 5G signal. Look it up.

eagleisland - Posted - 03/27/2024:  16:27:15

For whatever it's worth, folks, I just saw a zoomed-in view of the allision. It appears that the bow of the ship hit the piling fairly high up. As steve davis noted, there was a tremendous amount of momentum (not inertia) making contact with the support. I strongly doubt that dolphins (which are the structures that theoretically keep ship hulls away from the piling) would have been effective given the comparative ages of the 1) ship and 2) bridge designs. I suspect that, not anticipating how ship design would change, the bridge engineers wouldn't have pondered on such things.



Further: the depth of the water near that pier is approximately 20 feet at mean low water. I don't know the state of the tides at that point, but vessels that big typically draw a lot more than that - up to 30'., and that section of Chesapeake Bay has maybe a two-foot rise and fall of tide. It's also a muddy bottom. The center of the channel, where the ship would have been if it had good control of steerage, is closer to 50'.  This suggests to me that the ship was probably already aground by the time its stern swung to port, and momentum took things the rest of the way - and current and wind could well have been contributory. On the open ocean, container ships are effectively large, inefficient sails. In harbors, they're still large, inefficient sails, but the consequences of errors tend to be greater. This is a big reason why, in major ports such as Baltimore, pilots who understand the channels and how winds and current affect them are required. And the ship had two aboard - an inshore pilot, and one to get them safely out into the Chesapeake Bay.



There's still a tremendous amount we don't know, and probably won't for a year or two. That's how long the analysis will take. Just so you all know, the sensationalist news media will have largely moved on by the time the conclusions are drawn. As, no doubt, will most of you.



For now, knowing what I do (as a more-knowledgable-than-most-but-still-a-layman) about shipping, I still haven't seen anything to convince me that this was anything more than a tragic example of the "$#!+ happens" phenomenon. Any system can, and ultimately will, fail - regardless of how carefully designed by us clever but short-sighted humans.

Edited by - eagleisland on 03/27/2024 16:29:04

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 03/27/2024:  16:53:36

Skip puts forth good thought...

But...me real point is ..do folks understand how fragle our infrastructure is..

This happening..will hamper much commerse..

Think HasMat shipments..
They used that bridge..
For a reason...

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/27/2024:  16:57:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5B-Ranch

Seems to me if this was an act of some military or terror would it not be more logistical/logical to have done this during the busy traffic hours? And why send out a SOS warning? No I think this was just bad timing for a ship to lose navigational control.

 

although there's this thought of cyber attack and if the ships are connected to some network via satellite it could be a test run or a warning. How sinister if this was the truth.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

now you know why when you lose electricity at home and when it returns all appliances with motors seem to go haywire. 

 

---

I saw where this ship was carrying 1.8M gallons of fuel and 56 containers of HAZMAT.  More environmental terror.  Plus impact on the price of fuels, and our ability to import / export goods. 

Disaster, here, disaster there.  It all adds up and now we're conditioned to think it's just another "normal mishap".  And the government is salivating to pay to rebuild so they can launder more money into their bank accounts while all of us pay and pay and pay.  Bunch of suckers we are working for a living and paying taxes.

At a college softball game today, one popcorn, hot dog, and drink = $20.  We're the frogs and the water's close to boiling.

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/27/2024:  17:02:33

Oh and we're all supposed to be looking at this bridge collapse and ignoring what's happening with P Diddy. Like I said awhile back the enormity of the Epstein scandal cannot be overstated. And those involved would sooner try to burn this planet down than be exposed.

5B-Ranch - Posted - 03/27/2024:  21:11:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Oh and we're all supposed to be looking at this bridge collapse and ignoring what's happening with P Diddy. Like I said awhile back the enormity of the Epstein scandal cannot be overstated. And those involved would sooner try to burn this planet down than be exposed.

---

Did I not see the younger brother of the future King in photos with Piff Duddy puff Dobbies,pimp didhe or what ever he goes by? Now would that be interesting? Maybe MI6 needed a favor? 

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/28/2024:  05:22:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5B-Ranch

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Hornet

Oh and we're all supposed to be looking at this bridge collapse and ignoring what's happening with P Diddy. Like I said awhile back the enormity of the Epstein scandal cannot be overstated. And those involved would sooner try to burn this planet down than be exposed.

---

Did I not see the younger brother of the future King in photos with Piff Duddy puff Dobbies,pimp didhe or what ever he goes by? Now would that be interesting? Maybe MI6 needed a favor? 

---

Yep.  First Andrew, now Harry.  Much more to come and nothing can stop it.

Buddur - Posted - 03/28/2024:  05:58:45

Huh? Maybe some of you can't....

...but I can ignore what's happening to Pee Diddly. Easily.

Mad Hornet - Posted - 03/28/2024:  06:38:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Buddur

Huh? Maybe some of you can't....



...but I can ignore what's happening to Pee Diddly. Easily.

---

I used to think that.  You too will find out that it's impacting your life whether you want to believe it or not.  Like I said, they will try to burn this planet down before allowing themselves to be exposed.  You live on this planet?