Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/12/2024:  05:59:47

Everybody tidy up up, we're expecting company...

Beyoncé just dropped a new single, Texas Hold 'Em, during the Super Bowl, and it features the inestimable Rhiannon Giddens on banjo.  

The album is a country music crossover.  Can't get a much bigger audience of new ears.  

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 02/12/2024 06:14:22

heavy5 - Posted - 02/12/2024:  07:29:17

What say u post the music ?   really like her stuff 1

Edited by - heavy5 on 02/12/2024 07:29:57

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 02/12/2024:  07:44:36

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/12/2024:  10:59:59

I actually was going to, but then was kinda bummed at some of the language. Wasn't sure how it would be received here. 

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/12/2024:  11:39:43

Anytime a banjo gets out to big audiences I’m all for it

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/12/2024:  12:32:36

Not exactly my kind of music, but.... I agree, if it has a banjo, that's at least worth listening to.... once.

Edited to add:  the language isn't so bad that it can't be left on the Hangout. 

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 02/12/2024 12:33:17

cobra1 - Posted - 02/12/2024:  12:47:35

Rhiannon Giddens on banjo. One of my favorite artist, great version of Wayfaring Stranger.
Didn't care for above music.


youtube.com/watch?v=b1Z4PAZX9B...t_radio=1

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 02/12/2024:  13:01:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Not exactly my kind of music, but.... I agree, if it has a banjo, that's at least worth listening to.... once.

 

Edited to add:  the language isn't so bad that it can't be left on the Hangout. 

---

Yeah, I purposely avoided posting the official version because her outfit is pretty revealing. Here's a clean version:

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 02/12/2024:  13:25:43

She should definitely stick to her lane. Beyonce is an R&B force but she is forgettable here. Her fans arent country pop.

Edited by - NotABanjoYoda on 02/12/2024 13:26:12

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/12/2024:  19:11:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by cobra1

Rhiannon Giddens on banjo. One of my favorite artist, great version of Wayfaring Stranger.

Didn't care for above music.





youtube.com/watch?v=b1Z4PAZX9B...t_radio=1

---

This was the first lick I learned on my Christmas Possum banjo.  She is a treasure.

SirenSong - Posted - 02/13/2024:  03:51:19

Couldn't make it to the end of that travesty.

However, Miss Giddens has a new admirer. I can fangirl all over that!

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/13/2024:  04:44:36

Oh, I hope you have googled her by now…. There is nothing that woman can’t do. She is truly an amazing artist and national treasure. I’m so glad I get to live in a world with her in it. If you missed the link to her Wayfarin' Stranger, click on it.  First thing of hers I saw, and I have never looked away.  

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 02/13/2024 04:48:24

Tractor1 - Posted - 02/13/2024:  05:24:00

the lyrics don't really fit my taste--I don't like country love songs much--but the call and response -motown- throwback is cool --as far as Rhianna--It is good to hear a fretless in the main stream--however a shame our own Noah Cline or Tim Twiss never= earned a spot at that before this--but they don't have the all important assets that Rhiannon possess

but to each their own --live and let live

Edited by - Tractor1 on 02/13/2024 05:33:45

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 02/13/2024:  06:50:33

Hey, guys 'n' gals--this is not about whether you or I like the song; it's about the banjo getting a moment in the mainstream spotlight.

Let's all rejoice unreservedly!

Bronx banjo - Posted - 02/13/2024:  07:24:23

Usually, when the banjo makes it into the mainstream, it’s via a truck commercial or some demeaning portrayal of rural stereotypes. While this song isn’t exactly to my taste, it is refreshing to hear the banjo in a new context. Hopefully it’s the beginning of a trend of acceptance for our favorite instrument. Rheannon’s playing is as good as ever. My only complaint is that it was too low in the mix.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/13/2024:  07:41:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prairiedogdance

Everybody tidy up up, we're expecting company...

Beyoncé just dropped a new single, Texas Hold 'Em, during the Super Bowl, and it features the inestimable Rhiannon Giddens on banjo.  

The album is a country music crossover.  Can't get a much bigger audience of new ears.  

 

---

We won't see much new traffic here, Reddit, facebook, X, etc., will be where the new action is. 

Jim Hartel is going to sell some banjos.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/13/2024:  07:46:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronx banjo

Usually, when the banjo makes it into the mainstream, it’s via a truck commercial or some demeaning portrayal of rural stereotypes. While this song isn’t exactly to my taste, it is refreshing to hear the banjo in a new context. Hopefully it’s the beginning of a trend of acceptance for our favorite instrument. Rheannon’s playing is as good as ever. My only complaint is that it was too low in the mix.

---

Ahh, so it wasn't just my ears.  I thought the same thing, but blamed it on the 70s arena rock, chuckle. And I thought the same about the song as a whole.  Great opportunity to bring to the mainstream a great instrument.  

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 02/13/2024 07:47:17

BradleyC - Posted - 03/15/2024:  14:14:14

I'm not sure the banjo really needs a "trend of acceptance". I've never met anyone who didn't like it. I think the song is fine, but I'm not sure I'm excited about welcoming more commercialism to the banjo. The relatively low levels of commercialized culture in the banjo community is part of what I find so refreshing.

I like Rhiannon's goal overall though. Her playing on the song is good too. I agree it was mixed too low and almost seems like a gimmick/grabber at the beginning. The banjo's not really a focus of the piece, but I have to admit it's kind of catchy.

1935tb-11 - Posted - 03/15/2024:  17:52:32

at least its better then most of the stuff i have heard her (beyonce) do,,,banjo very cool

Lew H - Posted - 03/16/2024:  08:00:17

So many have said this song is not to their "taste." Dang, who knew us banjo pickers had taste?!?!?! LOL. I like to see the banjo put to use in unexpected genres. It is admirable that minstrel banjo (a style of picking and a reproduction instrument) are teamed up with a current lyric, rhythm, and arrangement. How clever! Maybe us pickers need to have "tastes" in the plural rather than a singular "taste." I'd like this as much or more than as, oh, let's say, more rounds of Wagon Wheel, Rock Top, a Dock Boggs song. or several of those nondescript Appalachian clawhammer-fiddle tunes.

For those who seem not to know of Rhiannon Giddens's stature: She has a solid musical history with the Carolina Chocolate Drops--a wonderful oldtime string band--and with other collaborators in traditional and "modern" music. She is a superb classically trained musician and vocalist. She understands the roots of the banjo in Africa and its development in the West better than many of us do. She has emphasized this connection in many ways, not the least being an address to the IBMA a few years ago.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 03/16/2024:  08:24:01

For sure! She is an American treasure. I was fortunate to see her pre-covid in a small club here. Exquisite evening…

Lew H - Posted - 03/16/2024:  08:28:05

Prairiedogdance Good! I saw her with the CCDs at a smaller auditorium in St. Louis, and at the ROMP Festival in Owensboro, KY. Both were excellent performances. Dom Flemons signed my banjo head.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 03/16/2024:  08:34:48

Lew H Cool!! We are really hoping she will come here again, but she is getting so busy. First thing I ever learned on my new Christmas banjo was the lick to Wayfarin’ Stranger. So far that’s been about my speed, chuckle.

dylant - Posted - 03/20/2024:  07:34:33

There's a great profile of Giddens in the Washington Post this week.



Quote: "I’m not here to be famous, and I’m not here to be a celebrity,” she said in a recent phone interview with The Washington Post. “I’m just here to bore you to tears about the banjo.”

She's doing a lot of great work to restore the banjo to its proper place as the birthright of *all* Americans. Her appearance in Beyonce's country song is a huge move. 

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 03/20/2024:  08:29:10

yes! It makes my heart so glad to see her work being so publicly embraced.

Lew H - Posted - 03/20/2024:  10:18:46

ibma.org/rhiannon-giddens-keyn...ess-2017/

Here is Giddens's keynote address at the IBMA a few years ago.  She was on her way to fame then, and was talking about the banjo and its history.

writerrad - Posted - 03/20/2024:  19:04:31

When she wrote me about this, having known her since she was singing opera in pizza parlors, and beinG an old fart, I had no idea what Tic Toc or even who Beyonce really was. I know like many artists especially those supporting a family, she saw this as an opportunity to help pay her bills and spread maintain a viable career, and popularize the banjo and reclaim it as an instrument for black music and black popular discourse. I do know she has done everything she possibly could to help hook the success of this recording to link support to supporting those of us who do banjo history research both AFrican American and otherwise.

She is a trained professional musician with degrees in both voice and violin from the Oberlin Conservatory. She recently created and produced an opera that that his been performed in several cities and has won prizes. She could easily use her "positioning" to do more lucrative things but she has stood behind every major venture and struggle those of us trying to produce deep and honest banjo history are doing.

Lew H - Posted - 03/22/2024:  21:10:55

writerrad , Well said, and more detailed than I could have said it. Thanks!

steve davis - Posted - 03/23/2024:  08:23:08

I loved it!
It was unexpected,very catchy rhythm,fun call and response and not everyone's cup of tea.
I like my art that way.
I was worried that Rhianna might have gone more mainstream since her Grammy fame.
I'm so happy she has held to her style with the banjo.
I want to be challenged by art.

writerrad - Posted - 03/23/2024:  10:32:44

:Again, 

Rhiannon holds degrees in both voice and violin from the Oberlin Conservatory.  She has written a prize winning opera.   She had many choices of what kind of music she can perform and what opportunities she can follow up. 

 She has consistently used each advance in her career in popularity to give back to the community of banjo historians and researchers who try to clarify the real history of the banjo often without asking any credit.   

Without disclosing things that are not for public consumption, her immediate action as this tic toc thing was published was to reach out to a bunch of us about how we could be take advantage of it.

She is under no other obligation other than needs to support herself and her family, but she does this consistently and volunteers to support initiatives by banjo history workers without being asked.

Edited by - writerrad on 03/23/2024 10:35:24

Helix - Posted - 04/05/2024:  20:13:02

I recall John McEuen’s use of claw hammer on Some of Shellie’s Blues. No one invited them to to innovate

Ms Giddon’s invitation here is good business and great marketing

For everyone who dislikes it there are several hundred daily who mow the overgrown banjo lawn. She’s a tree, she grows
Its performing arts, we get to play it again

Banjos are weightless in orbital space
Crows are going out there with us, teach them banjo now. Let’s jam

Take a look at YouTube/shorts and see the instant diversity Beyoncé’s song has created

Catch a ride while you can. Charlie Poole would have
Billy strings rode in on a boxcar
The Mumfords blew a fuse
Momentum is the game, the trick is having ‘mo mentum than the competition


Nothing wrong with youths, every and each is drawn by the goodness
Freshen up

Buddur - Posted - 04/08/2024:  06:20:28

I think it's great that an entertainer who doesn't play an instrument or write their own songs but made a gazillion dollars in the entertainment industry is giving spotlight to someone who does do all that but never made a crapload of cash the exposure to widen her audience and in essence chance to ca$h in. Good for Beyoncé to work with, and help out, Rhiannon.

Lew H - Posted - 04/13/2024:  21:54:34

san jorge Why are you putting people down both BHO members and others? You are not revealing your name or location here. It's easy to be a jerk when you are anonymous, but please don't act this way on BHO.

writerrad - Posted - 04/14/2024:  06:04:04

Thanks Lew. People who do not get enough attention in their lives like to act out. People writing pop hits would be stupid if they wrote something that appealed to a 76 year old person like myself who is immersed in listening to old time banjo and is suspicious of most Bluegrass even made by friends of mine made after  1980.

I assume to appeal to young people, it would have to be something that would drive their parents, or in my case, their grand parents or great grand parents out of the room.   frankly I listened to it once online and proceeded back to deciphering the relationship between the Booker family members which I had had wrong and  working out Marion Underwood's wonderful playing on the B section of Taylor's Kentucky Boys 1927 recording of "Forked Deer."



In some ways this is how I got into old time music when I was a kid. My mother spent most of her growing up years in Gary W Va when it was a US Coal and Coke company town and the largest coal mining operation on this planet. When I got interested in playing guitar and playing old time and blues she said she had heard enough banjos and fiddles and such growing up to last a lifetime.   She kept asking me why did I want to listen to banjos and fiddles.  She liked Ella Fitzgerald or Duke Ellington or even Perry Como.



I would hope that young people with any salt to them or brains today have their own music that old farts like myself and my buddy Lew would find strange. That millions like this and are introduced to the banjo as a byproduct fine. Rhiannon is in her 40s and has several teen aged children she is devoted to, and her taste seems to run either to traditional Black music or classical music and opera since she is a trained classical musican and vocalist who attended the Oberlin Conservatory.

When I was teaching English at a college, a national expert in teaching writing who was a close friend but who had sons the age of my students, said I should get my students to write about the music, TV, and movies they enjoyed because it would be nothing that I know about, and they would have to learn to explain things because, not having children their age like most of my friends,  I would not know what they were talk about and they would have to explain what the bands and programs and movies were about.   The really worked.



I do know that Rhiannon contacted me and a number of scholars of the banjo when this thing hit to see what she and we could do to leverage the popularity of this thing to help popularize historical work about the banjo.  I know that for the 3 decades I have known her,  Rhiannon has contributed her time and when she started to have it her money and influence to help mos tof the major initiatives the banjo history world has made to document the history of the banjo. 

Perhaps this why in 2017, the IBMA asked her to give the keynote address at its convention, which I am proud to say asks folks to read some of what I have written.

Edited by - writerrad on 04/14/2024 06:20:52

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 04/14/2024:  06:52:31

writerrad It is so great you have been fortunate to have known her/follow her wonderful journey. She possesses such a wonderful sense of self and music. She is on my list of folks I would love to just hangout on the porch and shoot the breeze about everything that interests her in the world right now. :)

writerrad - Posted - 04/14/2024:  11:12:40

Yes,she is an extremely talented person who has worked extremely hard.

When I first met her, she told me she had had a job in a pizza parlor where the waitresses had to sing opera which she can being an Oberlin double major in both voice and violin.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 04/14/2024:  19:43:21

Shrug, I and a bunch of other folks disagree. Don’t think you'll too get much action trolling on this post…. Might as well shuffle along 

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 04/14/2024 19:48:25

ceemonster - Posted - 04/14/2024:  22:09:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronx banjo

Usually, when the banjo makes it into the mainstream, it’s via a truck commercial or some demeaning portrayal of rural stereotypes. While this song isn’t exactly to my taste, it is refreshing to hear the banjo in a new context. Hopefully it’s the beginning of a trend of acceptance for our favorite instrument. Rheannon’s playing is as good as ever. My only complaint is that it was too low in the mix.

---

But the context here is a demeaning stereotype.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=238Z4YaAr1g

banjowannabe - Posted - 04/15/2024:  02:53:27

Gives "pull my finger" a whole new meaning.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/15/2024:  04:31:10

I had hidden several threads that were rule breakers. If this flaunting rules continues, someone will get a time out. Let's keep it civil, please.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 04/15/2024:  05:06:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by ceemonster

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronx banjo

Usually, when the banjo makes it into the mainstream, it’s via a truck commercial or some demeaning portrayal of rural stereotypes. While this song isn’t exactly to my taste, it is refreshing to hear the banjo in a new context. Hopefully it’s the beginning of a trend of acceptance for our favorite instrument. Rheannon’s playing is as good as ever. My only complaint is that it was too low in the mix.

---

 

But the context here is a demeaning stereotype.

 

m.youtube.com/watch?v=238Z4YaAr1g

---

Just mentioning that is not the official video, it's the "visualizer" used for promo bits/special circumstances.  It's a rather succinct double message for the common: "Sexuality as a weapon" and "Black bodies are dangerous." 

The whole song (and album) is a metaphor for how Black America deals with getting yanked/held down by the majority culture and politicians.

The metaphor hook is there in the pre-refrain, 

"One step to the right, so we head to the dive bar we always thought was nice.

Run me to the left then spin me in the middle,

Boy I can't read your mind."

I.e. "quit playing us, and just show your cards"

I never paid much attention to Beyonce, but the more I learn about the album the more it unveils a really massive body of commentary on American culture and the Black experience, illustrated by how the Country genre was built on backs of Black musicians... 

But it's more than that, and weaves many tiered, double-entendre references throughout the album.  It's kinda brilliant political/social commentary.  I can't break it all down here, but there are good articles all over the net.  The Washington post one of the cover alone is worth the read, and sets up the album theme about how Black Americans *are* Americans. Not some special class.  

It is one of those if you take the time to understand it, you gotta respect the work that went into it, whether the tunes/lyrics hit your ears comfortably, or not. 

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 04/15/2024 05:09:23

ceemonster - Posted - 04/15/2024:  06:44:17

Oh, I've "taken the time to understand it," all right.

You've just got to laugh at the reviews blathering on about this "reclaiming the place of Black people in Country & Western," or whatever. Really? And this is the message being sent about what that place consists of?

If one wants to tie oneself in knots grasping for rationalizations such as, "Oh, but this is only a visualizer," have at it. But those who see it differently aren't seeing it differently because they're ignoramuses in need of a semiotics lecture, thanks.

It's glossy pop RnB-tinged rap with a little banjo faintly discernible in the background to try to shoehorn it into the "Country" category with a straight face. Because somebody really, really, really wants the Big Grammy their proxies have been allowed to interrupt award ceremonies to whine they should have gotten on top of the dozens of awards and gazillions of dollars they do have.

A monster hit it certainly is, but you're kidding yourself if you think that will bring any uptick in banjo interest beyond Mumford & Sons level, if that. The interest in this song has other, er, focus points.

san jorge - Posted - 04/15/2024:  07:20:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by ceemonster

A monster hit it certainly is, but you're kidding yourself if you think that will bring any uptick in banjo interest beyond Mumford & Sons level, if that. The interest in this song has other, er, focus points.

---

"Monster hit?" It's only getting air time because Beyonce's husband paid millions to Google and Comcast.  "Hits" don't usually work that way.

country frank - Posted - 04/15/2024:  07:35:04

What ceemonster said.

ceemonster - Posted - 04/15/2024:  07:55:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by san jorge

quote:

---

Originally posted by ceemonster

A monster hit it certainly is, but you're kidding yourself if you think that will bring any uptick in banjo interest beyond Mumford & Sons level, if that. The interest in this song has other, er, focus points.

---

"Monster hit?" It's only getting air time because Beyonce's husband paid millions to Google and Comcast.  "Hits" don't usually work that way.

---

It is #2 on Billboard's Hot 100.  That is a big hit.  And while I wasn't opining on "how" it became a big hit---I don't know for certain and I doubt you know for certain either-- the fact is that if Jay-Z found time to grease the wheels of promotion along with his many other um, fascinating activities, yes, "hits" do work that way a good bit of the time.  It's even legal a good bit of the time.  It's not a pretty fact, but the commercial pop music business is not a pretty business.

Edited by - ceemonster on 04/15/2024 07:59:04

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 04/15/2024:  07:59:28

ceemonster country frank It’s more than just one song. It’s a concept album. your comments are disconnected from what the album “is.” And I beg to differ about generating interest, lots of folks in the circles I follow are now talking about banjo, and Rhiannon, that never did before… so it apparently has garnered interest. Will it last, who knows? But for the moment, banjo is having a moment and that’s a good thing. It’s no skin off anyone’s nose. Why not just enjoy that some folks are enjoying something, and an entertainer is saying something that is important to a lot of people?  Enjoyment is not a limited good.

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 04/15/2024 08:06:33

ceemonster - Posted - 04/15/2024:  08:20:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prairiedogdance

ceemonster country frank It’s more than just one song. It’s a concept album. your comments are disconnected from what the album “is.” And I beg to differ about generating interest, lots of folks in the circles I follow are now talking about banjo, and Rhiannon, that never did before… so it apparently has garnered interest. Will it last, who knows? But for the moment, banjo is having a moment and that’s a good thing. It’s no skin off anyone’s nose. Sour grapes taste bad, so why not stop sucking them and just enjoy that some folks are enjoying something? Enjoyment is not a limited good.

---

Once more:  I know it's a quote-unquote "concept album." Golly, I actually know what a "concept album" is.    I am more than able to generate and articulate informed perspectives on arts-and-culture product, be it high or low, and have logged years doing so professionally as well as assigning and editing the work of others.   Your persistent and tiresome  assumption that perspectives diverging from your own must derive from ignorance calling for instruction and elucidation from you is badly misplaced.   I get the "concept.". I really get it.  And I have a very different view of it from yours.

ceemonster - Posted - 04/15/2024:  08:34:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by san jorge

quote:

---

Originally posted by writerrad

---

You must stop with the Photoshop cut-and-paste nose-thumbing.  You posted a photo. of Jake Blount on the now-locked Clifton Hicks thread that was fair, as it was original, unedited, and on topic.  But doctoring people's images to throw them a big raspberry on an internet forum--or doctoring them for any reason--is crossing a line, and frankly should be beneath you.

---

Edited by - ceemonster on 04/15/2024 08:41:29

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 04/15/2024:  09:48:21

Well, the music “biz” just sucks. I don’t think I need to expand on that. The Nashville establishment has this ongoing tension because their conservative tendencies are in conflict with their clamoring for relevance. They are still agonizing over losing Taylor Swift. I thought Beyoncé was brilliant. Is it country? I don’t know, but it sure is a refreshing change. The banjo was well done but it won’t move the needle in terms of acceptance any more than Deliverance and probably less than Bonnie and Clyde. That doesn’t bother me, I’ll be playing my banjo anyway.