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Gold Tone 2024 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 08:05:32
I used to have a ring finger training aid and I can't post a pic for some reason, if anyone has one that they are willing to part with I'd be happy to pay for it. I'll keep trying to post a pic. I think they were on Ross Nicckerson's website.
There it is
Edited by - Gold Tone 2024 on 02/09/2024 08:06:31
Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/09/2024: 08:15:47
There's an exercise I used to do that helped me keep that ring finger down while picking with the middle. I don't know if it would help you or not, but here it is:
Lay palm down on a flat surface. Lift index finger while leaving all others down, do the same with the middle, ring and pinkie. That eventually teaches each finger to act alone and may help you get away from that middle/ring fingers moving together.
Gold Tone 2024 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 08:39:43
Thank you mam, I'll give it a go.
eagleisland - Posted - 02/09/2024: 08:45:52
Welcome to the Banjo Hangout, Martin. For the record (and as has been discussed MANY times here), you do NOT need to plant both your ring finger and pinky. Even Earl said so, and there are many top pros who only plant one finger. The whole idea is to make your picking hand stable. If you can accomplish that with two fingers down, great. But if you can only comfortably manage planting just the pinky or the ring, my suggestion would be to do that instead.
Gold Tone 2024 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 09:02:40
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Tone 2024
Thank you mam, I'll give it a go.
Thanks Kip, anything I can hear that reduces absolute perfection helps to normalize the process.
Alex Z - Posted - 02/09/2024: 09:51:23
And that speaks to the point that Mr. eagleisland made: Two fingers touching the head is not "absolute perfection," but rather only one way that many players find comfortable. Others find something else comfortable. And both ways accomplish the same purpose.
" . . . it is the result reached, not the method employed, which is controlling." 
U.S. Supreme Court, FPC v. Hope Natural Gas Co. 320 U.S. 591 (1944)
Owen - Posted - 02/09/2024: 10:55:25
I made a loop (?) from a strip from a soft plastic bottle of an appropriate diameter and covered it with a bit of Red Green tape. I can't "play" worth a hoot, but it only took a few weeks to train my fingers* ... proceed accordingly.
* = and "no pain, no gain" is a bunch of hooey!!
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 02/09/2024: 14:16:38
quote:
Originally posted by Owen
I made a loop (?) from a strip from a soft plastic bottle of an appropriate diameter and covered it with a bit of Red Green tape. I can't "play" worth a hoot, but it only took a few weeks to train my fingers* ... proceed accordingly.
* = and "no pain, no gain" is a bunch of hooey!!
Darn! I guess we'll have to revisit that theory about a two-finger plant being the answer to everything.
chuckv97 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 14:29:06
Back when I wuz loining I taped my pinky & ring fingers together,, but nowadays I just plant my pinky- I think my middle moves more freely this way. Lots of pros planted only the pinky.
Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/09/2024: 14:54:16
When I first started learning banjo I was told one "MUST" plant both fingers. I used the same method chuck did; only I used a rubber band.
I finally trained my hand to hold down 2 fingers and still be able to pick with that middle finger without the ring finger lifting and moving around.
Now, some 30 years later? I can either plant both fingers or just my pinkie or just my ring, whatever my hand wants to do.
So if that's your biggest problem, plant whatever finger(s) work for you and don't look for perfection.
Owen - Posted - 02/09/2024: 14:55:00
quote:
Originally posted by Laurence Diehl Darn! I guess we'll have to revisit that theory about a two-finger plant being the answer to everything.
On reflection, I guess it was as much to keep my ring finger from working in tandem with my middle finger than to keep it anchored per se ... although "anchoring" it should have accomplished the same thing.... at least in theory. 
Edited by - Owen on 02/09/2024 14:59:34
Alex Z - Posted - 02/09/2024: 17:32:05
There is no "perfection" when it comes to touching the head with the fingers -- it's a matter of preference and tradition. That's the eye-opening teaching here. No one should think they are settling for something less if only one finger is touching.
And if the mental concept is "plant" or "anchor", instead of touch or position (or as Bill Keith said in a workshop, "lightly caress") then the concept of plant or anchor could be interfering with relaxed picking of the strings.
Wayne2001 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 19:24:37
quote:
Originally posted by Owen
I made a loop (?) from a strip from a soft plastic bottle of an appropriate diameter and covered it with a bit of Red Green tape. I can't "play" worth a hoot, but it only took a few weeks to train my fingers* ... proceed accordingly.
* = and "no pain, no gain" is a bunch of hooey!!
Red Green tape, I love it. I wonder how many on this site know what that is. You can make or fix anything with it.
Alex Z - Posted - 02/09/2024: 21:31:58
Mr. Owen is up there in the north country, Red Green's country.
"We're all in this together."
chuckv97 - Posted - 02/09/2024: 21:36:31
“I’m a man , but I can change if I have to , I guess" - Red Green
Edited by - chuckv97 on 02/09/2024 21:39:03
BobbyE - Posted - 02/10/2024: 03:35:52
If you insist on doing that, wouldn’t a rubber band that was the correct size accomplish the same thing?
Bobby
Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/10/2024: 04:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyE
If you insist on doing that, wouldn’t a rubber band that was the correct size accomplish the same thing?
Bobby
Rubber bands work just fine. I used rubber bands when I was learning and it eventuallly worked. Just be sure they aren't too tight and stop circulation.
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 02/10/2024: 06:59:07
As Skip, Sherry, and others have suggested, such gizmos are unnecessary.
steve davis - Posted - 02/10/2024: 10:32:58
I think my little finger is the one that always touches the head and the ring less often.I'm not sure...I just play and don't look at my right hand very often.
I play where I'm comfortable and don't have to think about it beyond playing the way I like to hear it.
O.D. - Posted - 02/10/2024: 12:22:44
It's a matter of physiology.
Some people can some can't.
I immediately feel stress across the top of my hand when planting 2 fingers,so I don't do it.
Put me in with the ring finger floaters.
Thank you,goodnight.
E
Edited by - O.D. on 02/10/2024 12:23:19
Owen - Posted - 02/10/2024: 16:22:43
... unnecessary but helpful?
Wobba - Posted - 02/10/2024: 17:21:22
Not everyone can plant the ring and pinkie. It depends on the length of your fingers. In my case my pinkie is a bit over an inch shorter than my ring finger. So trying to plant both on the head is really uncomfortable for my ring finger and can cause it to cramp. Hence I just plant my pinkie.
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/10/2024: 21:09:06
the lucky ones can throw the ring down with not a bit of feeling hindered---lucky@#4%$--I finally quit trying
but something you are seeing here first--I think I imagined it into existence--- is I tape mine together kinda so the ring does not interfere with bringing in the hand close --for middle finger on the inside strings
Rich Weill - Posted - 02/10/2024: 22:30:27
As O.D. said, “It's a matter of physiology.” But it’s more than: some can and some can’t. If the physiological connection between your middle and ring fingers makes planting your ring finger awkward, it also means that forcing your ring finger down will severely restrict your middle finger’s range of motion. You shouldn’t do anything that restricts (and thus slows down) your picking fingers. That’s also why you want your hands to be relaxed and not contorted into unnatural positions. All these things are counterproductive.
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/11/2024: 04:57:18
I tape mine in a non confining crook--and it is still free to move a bit-not pressed onto the head like my pinky--it would hold me back to force it to be planted
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/11/2024: 05:15:34
btw this works for me but I don't say anyone else should do it
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 02/11/2024: 07:56:33
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Tone 2024
youtu.be/m9xUUwUStJ8?t=181
Looks like Russ Carson floats his ring finger.
As do Alison Brown, Sammy Shelor, and a bunch of other truly great players.
...and Tom Adams, Allen Shelton, Doug Dillard, Lynn Morris...
Maybe we should archive a list of single-planting players, to bring up whenever discussions like this come up.
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 02/11/2024: 08:36:39
It's funny, I had read all the old threads about the one vs. two finger planting debate, but I went to a banjo workshop last year and the guy leading it (great player) insisted that you needed to plant two to have a chance to be a decent player. I guess the debate will never end.
Owen - Posted - 02/11/2024: 09:32:01
.... and for bonus points, we can also debate whether it's better to be decent or indecent.
gcpicken - Posted - 02/11/2024: 09:33:04
I lash my ring and pinky together just above the knuckles with a Velcro strip. I make the loop once, and after that, I can just slide it on. It has the benefit of width.
My ring finger is about an inch longer than my pinky, so getting them both down next to each other is not something that is going to happen. My ring is the plant finger.
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 02/11/2024: 10:01:14
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe
It's funny, I had read all the old threads about the one vs. two finger planting debate, but I went to a banjo workshop last year and the guy leading it (great player) insisted that you needed to plant two to have a chance to be a decent player. I guess the debate will never end.
I know. You would think that when even Earl said you don't need to plant 2 fingers that would end the debate, but no.
You could try super glue or even a small C clamp to keep those fingers together. Painful, but it works. Or for even greater stability - plant all four!
And of course I'm not serious, but I've been following the debate since at least 2007 and I'm starting to develop a twitch everytime it comes up. Time spent worrying about this is time NOT spent playing music.
eagleisland - Posted - 02/11/2024: 11:02:42
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe
It's funny, I had read all the old threads about the one vs. two finger planting debate, but I went to a banjo workshop last year and the guy leading it (great player) insisted that you needed to plant two to have a chance to be a decent player. I guess the debate will never end.
I've had the same experience. Banjo Camp North, many years ago, at a workshop led by someone whose name pretty much everyone here would recognize. He insisted on a two finger plant. I raised my hand.
"What if your pinkie is too short to make that happen?"
"Let's see."
I held up my right hand, demonstrating that my pinkie fingertip is just about exactly 1.5" behind that of the ring.
"Oh," he said. "Well then, I suppose you'll just have to do the best you can."
The plant-two-or-you'll-never-play-well meme is just that - a meme, an idea, a bit of banjo dogma that emerged over time because Earl Did It That Way. Earl, for his part, didn't seem particularly concerned by the idea that the way he did it wasn't the same way everyone else did.
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/11/2024: 11:09:37
being blessed with world class dexterity does not mean one is blessed with the same amount of brains---however the general public never gives that much thought
Edited by - Tractor1 on 02/11/2024 11:24:33
Jack Baker - Posted - 02/11/2024: 11:56:53
BHO is so Retro. It's still talking about where and which fingers to place on the head. Just be sure you're playing on something round with a white plastic head on it and you'll be fine....Jack
latigo1 - Posted - 02/11/2024: 12:16:24
I wonder how many people would see an improvement in thier playing if they quit trying to force themselves into a two finger plant when it is not a natural position for them.
eagleisland - Posted - 02/11/2024: 12:33:48
quote:
Originally posted by Jack Baker
BHO is so Retro. It's still talking about where and which fingers to place on the head. Just be sure you're playing on something round with a white plastic head on it and you'll be fine....Jack
That made me chuckle.
You gotta admit though, Jack, that as long as newbies continue to show up and not use the search function to find the answer to a question that's already been asked hundreds of times... it'll most likely continue to be discussed.
Alex Z - Posted - 02/11/2024: 12:58:17
It's not that an answer can't be found, but rather several answers can be found. And the predominant belief is that two fingers are better than one and I will play better if I "plant" or "anchor" two, no matter what Mr. Earl said. (And Mr. Earl looked pretty relaxed with curved fingers, no sign of "planting" or "anchoring". )
Evidence how many in this thread advised "do what is comfortable for you" at the same time they are saying "I use duct tape and bungee chords to 'train' my fingers."
We're seeing human nature at work.
Owen - Posted - 02/11/2024: 16:34:21
For me, a comfortable loop that helped train my ring finger to not move along with my middle finger was/is human nature at work.
Alex Z - Posted - 02/11/2024: 17:17:56
The open question is, do two fingers down result in more skillful playing than one?
Not theoretical "more stability" etc., but actually can all players play better with two fingers down than one?
Can some players play better with two fingers down than one?
Are those with only one finger down sacrificing accuracy? How do we know?
All we have is anecdotal evidence -- someone does X and says, "I play better with X, because _________"
There's a lot we don't know, and if we knew it we would likely not have a 1-finger vs. 2-finger "plant" and "anchor" debate, but rather some generally accepted universal guidelines on how to position the fingers.
Edited by - Alex Z on 02/11/2024 17:18:29
B_Shull - Posted - 02/12/2024: 13:20:43
Pinkie only gang unite!
pmartin9363 - Posted - 02/12/2024: 15:18:07
I am dealing with this issue now, I have been playing for around three years. And I have always just planted my ring finger. It was the most comfortable for me. But, I have started pushing myself to play faster, Trying to learn Old Joe Clark at 100bpm. My ring finger has always moved a bit, but when I picked up the speed it was all over the place, so my picking hand was all over the place, So, now I am only planting my pinky, I have been only doing it for about 4 days. But, now my picking hand is stable, It is taking some adjustment because my hand is not at the same distance is has been from the stings for the last 3 years, but I am sure it will not take too long to get used to,
shannon edward leasure - Posted - 02/12/2024: 17:34:21
just anchor the ring finger and don't worry about the pinky
shannon edward leasure - Posted - 02/12/2024: 17:49:54
My timing did improve years ago when I anchored my ring finger, it would make sense of your adjacent finger was moving in correlation with your picking finger it could affect timing, but also a two finger plant could affect tone the same as anchoring your pinky on the bridge, but in the end you will play better in your own comfort zone, the music journey is a long one and by trial and error and exposure we get better
shannon edward leasure - Posted - 02/12/2024: 18:02:54
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
quote:
Originally posted by Jack Baker
BHO is so Retro. It's still talking about where and which fingers to place on the head. Just be sure you're playing on something round with a white plastic head on it and you'll be fine....Jack
That made me chuckle.
You gotta admit though, Jack, that as long as newbies continue to show up and not use the search function to find the answer to a question that's already been asked hundreds of times... it'll most likely continue to be discussed.
Sorry guys but I'm a newbie
eagleisland - Posted - 02/13/2024: 04:23:31
quote:
Originally posted by shannon edward leasure
Sorry guys but I'm a newbie
As were we all, Shannon. Which is why those of us who've been around a while continue to answer questions that have been asked many times before.
steve davis - Posted - 02/13/2024: 07:09:45
quote:
Originally posted by shannon edward leasure
just anchor the ring finger and don't worry about the pinky
I find anchoring the ring finger to be uncomfortable.
Gallaher - Posted - 02/13/2024: 09:03:45
Wow! I’ve been a member here almost 20 years!
Where did the time go?
This has to be the #1 topic on the BG forum over the years.
On the OT forum it’s “index or middle”. Claw hammer players no what I mean.
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