rkdjones - Posted - 01/31/2024:  10:38:45

I've searched the archives already and haven't found what I'm looking for. I have a Gold Tone AC traveler, about 23" scale with a zero fret nut. I would like to know what it is like to play clawhammer on a nylon string banjo before bothering with making the change. I want to tune it to an open tuning: A, G, F, it really doesn't matter that much.

I'm expecting a different tone but wonder about how it feels to play nylon. Are the strings under much different tension than metal, does it affect how the instrument plays. Are there different techniques needed for nylon? I'd appreciate observations of anyone who has played clawhammer style with nylon strings.

RJ

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/31/2024:  10:50:11

I can't speak for Gold Tone or any modern banjo (configured with neck angle for wire strings)... but playing on classic era or "early rimmed" banjos is fantastic.

Also consider that "stroke style" or "banjo style" (which is more or less the same mechanically as "clawhammer") was at first the style, and later still popular, with gut strings.

wrench13 - Posted - 01/31/2024:  11:08:45

I found nylon to be too rubbery for my liking. They do sound more plunky.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/31/2024:  11:12:41

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

I found nylon to be too rubbery for my liking. They do sound more plunky.

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It needs to be treated as a different instrument, with different skills.  Just trying it out won't yield satisfying results.  With any skill, it takes practice and effort. 

One needs to develop the correct touch or attack to striking the strings.  The other problem is that people tend to play on nylon far from the bridge--- move that hand closer where the strings are firm. 

banjered - Posted - 01/31/2024:  12:16:36

Over the years I have put Nylgut strings on 8-12 banjos. Some I used classical guitar nylon strings. Currently I have four banjos. I have a wood rim Stone banjo with Aquilla Minstrel strings and a Saga Pony banjo with classical, standard Aquilla strings tuned to open D and open C respectively but in the standard G tuning pattern. I use lowerd D tuning to back my singing of folk songs. I prefer metal strings and tuning for fiddle tunes/jams and the nylon for songs. Nylon strings don't like to be retuned very much whereas metal strings are much more stable tuning wise. On the D banjo I will only tune up the second string for modal tunes and that's about it for retuning. Nylon strings sound softer. mellower and work quite well for clawhammer, two and three finger picking. So it all depends on what you want/like. banjered

Edited by - banjered on 01/31/2024 12:20:28

Bill Rogers - Posted - 01/31/2024:  12:29:15

I use high-tension guitar strings. You have to experiment a bit to find the ideal set for you. Buy singles of various diameters; obviously you won’t find a set. They work fine, and with the high tension, you don’t get a mushy feel with the right hand.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/31/2024:  12:55:11

So is using very heavy high tension strings a compromise to simulate the tension of wire?

Guitar strings are much thicker than any strings used in the "classic era"-- I've seen them pull apart tailpieces.

KCJones - Posted - 01/31/2024:  12:56:59

There seems to be more variability between brands, they're not a commodity like steel strings, so the specific set you pick matters. I like LaBella 17s.

They're lower tension, so they'll feel "squishier" when you play with your right hand. I agree with Joel's suggestion that they're better when played near the bridge as opposed to the typical "over the neck" right hand you see with clawhammer players.

They're higher gage, which also makes fretting feel different.

To dispel a myth before it gets mentioned: Properly set up, nylon can be just as loud as steel strings.

Nylon strings are awesome. They're also a great opportunity to branch out. I know you said clawhammer, but why not try a more traditional style like "two-finger-index-lead" / "Seeger style" which is just an absolute blast to play on a classic era banjo.

Nic Pennsylvania - Posted - 01/31/2024:  13:00:17

I would add that the thinner, non-capped bridges really do make a difference with nylon strings. I am a convert to the idea, having been skeptical. I would not expect to get everything I could without the appropriate bridge.

A Drum On A Stick - Posted - 01/31/2024:  14:10:00

How is it to play clawhammer on nylon strings?

It's a different feel and a different sound, but I quite like it. If I had to get rid of most of my instruments I'd keep one nylon-strung and one steel-strung banjo.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 01/31/2024:  15:22:25

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

So is using very heavy high tension strings a compromise to simulate the tension of wire?



Guitar strings are much thicker than any strings used in the "classic era"-- I've seen them pull apart tailpieces.

---

I play clawhammer and the banjos would otherwise have steel strings on them. So replicating classic era setup has never been an issue with me. I can't imagine any of the tailpieces I use being pulled apart. 

@Joel Hooks

Bill Rogers - Posted - 01/31/2024:  15:26:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nic Pennsylvania

I would add that the thinner, non-capped bridges really do make a difference with nylon strings. I am a convert to the idea, having been skeptical. I would not expect to get everything I could without the appropriate bridge.

---

Roger that. I use that style bridge on steel-string banjos too. They make a big difference.

dbrooks - Posted - 01/31/2024:  17:17:29

I have Aquila Classical strings on several 1890s Bay State banjos, mostly to avoid putting too much strain on the neck. I have two Bart Reiter banjos with steel strings that are better suited to playing in an ensemble setting at contra dances. I like the feel of Aquila strings. I did have to develop an ear for the different voice from these old banjos. The volume is less, for example. I have come to actually preferring that sound when noodling around at home or playing solo, say in a lesson. I did not have to widen the slots in the nut or the bridge, though others have had to do that. I have La Bella strings on and S.S. Stewart banjo that feel a bit floppy by comparison, but it has not been an issue for me.

It's a cheap experiment and one that is easily reversible. Give it a try.

David

P.S. I should add that I play clawhammer, not classic style which has different needs well described by Joel Hooks and John Cohen.

Edited by - dbrooks on 01/31/2024 17:20:06

campandstrum - Posted - 01/31/2024:  22:10:18

I have 2 identical banjos one with steel strings and one with Nylgut stings. Both banjos sound good, I like the slightly looser feel and warmer tone of the Nylgut strings. Both banjos get played everyday. Both banjos have ebony capped bridges. I preferred the ebony to the uncapped bridge and I also preferred 2 foot bridges to 3 foot bridges. Of course bridges are easily swapped out and some experimentation is needed.

TheLastWord - Posted - 02/01/2024:  03:28:50

I switched years ago and will never go back to steel. It's all personal preference and experimenting is fun. I like mine tuned down a step or two to match my voice for singing.

Bob Buckingham - Posted - 02/01/2024:  05:08:31

One of the loudest banjos I ever heard was a nylon strung UK made made banjo being played by a fellow in a band accompanying Morris Dancers. i used to use Sands Classic Hard banjo strings but would go with Hard Classical guitar strings if buying new now. I like nylon on a very old Ramsey fretlless I play and on my tackhead banjo. You must accommodate the larger diameter of the strings but otherwise there is not much the set up.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/01/2024:  05:35:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

So is using very heavy high tension strings a compromise to simulate the tension of wire?



Guitar strings are much thicker than any strings used in the "classic era"-- I've seen them pull apart tailpieces.

---

I play clawhammer and the banjos would otherwise have steel strings on them. So replicating classic era setup has never been an issue with me. I can't imagine any of the tailpieces I use being pulled apart. 

@Joel Hooks

---

The tension of high tension Spanish "classical" guitar strings equals or exceeds banjo steel strings.  This puts excessive stress on instruments no built for that level of pressure.  While Vega and some British built banjos might not be effected by this, it will crush/distort nickle rims, break tailpieces, and cause the neck dowel joint to creep.

The strings classic era banjos were designed around were very light-- firsts were .017 to .018"

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/01/2024:  05:42:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Buckingham

One of the loudest banjos I ever heard was a nylon strung UK made made banjo being played by a fellow in a band accompanying Morris Dancers. i used to use Sands Classic Hard banjo strings but would go with Hard Classical guitar strings if buying new now. I like nylon on a very old Ramsey fretlless I play and on my tackhead banjo. You must accommodate the larger diameter of the strings but otherwise there is not much the set up.

---

Right.  The old "nylon is quiet" thing was born from ignorance (of setup) and poor technique. It continued to be said and written until it became reality.

As I wrote, "trying" or "experimenting" in a brief manner will not yield good results.  Consider how much time a violinist spends on bowing and tone.

With nylon one needs to cultivate the right hand attack and spend some time discovering how to produce clear tone and projection.  A good study of dynamics is also in order as nylon is very sensitive and one may play pp to ff easily. 

The way the fingertips, nail, or thimble strikes the strings require practice. This does not happen overnight. 

Gut strung classic era banjos were used with great success in concert environments. You need volume and carrying power for that to work.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/01/2024:  05:44:52

And by "classic era" I would like to clarify that stroke style or banjo style was played on these same banjos.

Another myth that gets repeated is that S. S. Stewart was against stroke style. This is false and he was actually a promoter of it when people stopped caring, going so far as to patent and produce his own thimble design.

Ziradog - Posted - 02/01/2024:  05:57:32

It is definitely a different feel as well as tone. With the shorter scale on the banjo you are talking about, tuning the fourth string down to C will leave it really floppy. My Carolina Banjo Co. has a scale just over 24" and I can see the string vibrating when tuned to C. Also note that there are different nylon/nylgut strings that sound & play differently. High tension guitar strings were already mentioned. I just switched from Aquila Nylgut red's to Classics and they are very different. I haven't tried the La Bella's yet.

Music Madgic - Posted - 02/06/2024:  15:05:04

Do nylon strings have a hook or loop on the end like regular or metal band strings have?  I'm ready to try nylon, just asking because so many talk of breaking strings and tailpiece problems.

 

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Originally posted by rkdjones

I've searched the archives already and haven't found what I'm looking for. I have a Gold Tone AC traveler, about 23" scale with a zero fret nut. I would like to know what it is like to play clawhammer on a nylon string banjo before bothering with making the change. I want to tune it to an open tuning: A, G, F, it really doesn't matter that much.



I'm expecting a different tone but wonder about how it feels to play nylon. Are the strings under much different tension than metal, does it affect how the instrument plays. Are there different techniques needed for nylon? I'd appreciate observations of anyone who has played clawhammer style with nylon strings.



RJ

---

andybolam - Posted - 02/08/2024:  14:19:35

I’ve been using Aquila reds for over a year now and live them. I always put nylon on any vintage banjo I get, they just sound more contemporary. They do take a while to get used to and you need to persevere. I mostly play 2FTL and find them great for that style. Clawhammer is just as good.

some observations. They stretch, a lot. So when you first put them on pull them tight. Second, they are thicker than steel so you may need to change your bridge or get the nut files out. I often result the nut at accomodate them.

Playing up the neck becomes interesting as the you quickly lose sustain and tone past the 12th.

Make sure your tailpiece can cope with nylon. I often swap them out for no knot or old school wooden floating tailpieces, any sharp edges will cut the nylon easily.

final comment. I find they stay in tune as good as steel. I have more problems with skin heads than the strings on this regard.

give'em a try. You might never go back

dlm7507 - Posted - 02/08/2024:  17:02:35

Look for Clifton Hicks on YouTube. He plays clawhammer and two-finger with nylon strings. And he gives a lot of information about strings.

bart_brush - Posted - 02/08/2024:  17:53:11

Are any of those Nylgut or Aquila strings textured to reduce the slippery feel of regular nylon?

mcluskie - Posted - 02/09/2024:  04:44:11

hi, yes, nylon does feel different to steel and when I first changed it was disconcerting. But I love nylon, the sound, but also there is less tension than steel which for me, means you can get better purchase with drop thumbing. Some people find nylon like playing with spaghetti, but I found my playing improved

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/09/2024:  06:12:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by andybolam

I’ve been using Aquila reds for over a year now and live them. I always put nylon on any vintage banjo I get, they just sound more contemporary. They do take a while to get used to and you need to persevere. I mostly play 2FTL and find them great for that style. Clawhammer is just as good.

some observations. They stretch, a lot. So when you first put them on pull them tight. Second, they are thicker than steel so you may need to change your bridge or get the nut files out. I often result the nut at accomodate them.

Playing up the neck becomes interesting as the you quickly lose sustain and tone past the 12th.

Make sure your tailpiece can cope with nylon. I often swap them out for no knot or old school wooden floating tailpieces, any sharp edges will cut the nylon easily.

final comment. I find they stay in tune as good as steel. I have more problems with skin heads than the strings on this regard.

give'em a try. You might never go back

---

Nylon, such as that made by Dupont and offered by Labella is pretty cut resistant. "Nylgut" is not nylon but extruded polyester.

Those "red" strings are super high tension and MUCH thicker than any gut string used on classic era banjos. The unwould 4th is an abomonation that should go away.

GChicco - Posted - 02/09/2024:  21:27:19

I have nylon strings on my 1890's Pollmann, but then it was braced for gut strings. I have standard metal strings on my Whyte Layde, but while the feeling is different my clawhammer style is pretty much the same on both instruments. I do use Nylagut strings on my 1882 Martin Guitar and am very happy with them, they didn't take a week to stretch out , they seem to last longer and they sound good. I don't recall if I've ever tried Nylaguts on a banjo, but plan to try them on the Pollmann next time I need to change strings.

Claude Grassley - Posted - 02/24/2024:  05:42:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I've searched the archives already and haven't found what I'm looking for. I have a Gold Tone AC traveler, about 23" scale with a zero fret nut. I would like to know what it is like to play clawhammer on a nylon string banjo before bothering with making the change. I want to tune it to an open tuning: A, G, F, it really doesn't matter that much.



I'm expecting a different tone but wonder about how it feels to play nylon. Are the strings under much different tension than metal, does it affect how the instrument plays. Are there different techniques needed for nylon? I'd appreciate observations of anyone who has played clawhammer style with nylon strings.



RJ

---

I have the same AC-Traveller and I put Aquilla Classic Banjo Nylgut strings on it. I was surprised that the strings were just as loud as the steel strings (to my ear anyway). I have rr spikes for the fifth string that kept breaking the nylgut string so I put a steel string in that position for now. I may get a shub capo later if I decide to stick with the nylgut. So far I like them a lot. Here is a link to my review of the AC Traveller with the nylgut stings on it: youtube.com/watch?v=qv1gS9yB01o

Edited by - Claude Grassley on 02/24/2024 05:45:26

rkdjones - Posted - 02/24/2024:  08:29:05

Thanks. I did put some nylon guitar strings on my tenor banjo that I play with a soft pick and they do sound great to my ear. I tried clawhammer on the tenor to get an idea of how nylon strings would sound on my 5-string and just couldn't get strong clean notes out of the my down stroke with my fingernail. I think a lot has to do with the strings, my fingernails, and angle that I hit the strings. But I'm not done experimenting. I would like to try a clawhammer finger pick; that might work well with synthetic strings.

bjcolor - Posted - 02/24/2024:  09:20:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

Thanks. I did put some nylon guitar strings on my tenor banjo that I play with a soft pick and they do sound great to my ear. I tried clawhammer on the tenor to get an idea of how nylon strings would sound on my 5-string and just couldn't get strong clean notes out of the my down stroke with my fingernail. I think a lot has to do with the strings, my fingernails, and angle that I hit the strings. But I'm not done experimenting. I would like to try a clawhammer finger pick; that might work well with synthetic strings.

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Hi, I use Aquila Nylgut on a fretless and it's a good fit both for comfort playing and for sound (from my side, anyway!) but people on the receiving side say it sounds good :-). That instrument came with those strings. Your ideas sound good (*and I am a newbie, just to be clear!), but imo also it might be a matter of "expectations."  I don't expect that instrument to sound like the one I have with steel strings. 2 different experiences, to me anyway.

RDP - Posted - 03/01/2024:  20:54:48

Nylons sound very good with clawhammer style. I use them on my gourd banjo with violin tuners. Sound very good Fretless over steel strings.

etisdale - Posted - 03/12/2024:  17:32:59

Nylgut strings will feel less tensioned, but you can cutomize with single strings here: aquilausa.com/product-page/new...ut-string

Anybody know of any fluorocarbon sets of strings for banjo? They always feel higher in tension to me on a uke than Nylgut strings (presumably polybutylene terephthalate: patentimages.storage.googleapi...00314.pdf).

mandorod - Posted - 03/13/2024:  00:45:39

For some very tasty clawhammer playing on nylon strings, check out my friend Ariel Winnick’s album “Glory Beams”: youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK...8uGRdIpp9

mcluskie - Posted - 03/13/2024:  08:21:43

I found it wasn't too difficult to transition to playing on nylon. I find there is less tension in nylon strings and they are easier to pick and drop thumb. I love the tone and they give of more twang. Because of the lower tension, you can't play as fast as you can with streel but then I prefer life in the slow lane. I hope you enjoy them