foxdog175 - Posted - 01/24/2024:  21:05:55

I was gifted my first banjo for Christmas (through Banjo Ben) and naturally, gravitated toward learning Dueling Banjos. I'm perfectly comfortable playing at 100-105bmp, but once I'm at 110-115, my eyes are squinting, my head is tilted, and steam is comin out my ears trying to keep up with Tunefox.

I've been playing guitar for about 30 years and play Pantera and Metallica solos on youtube without much trouble, so I'm no stranger to speed, but I've never experienced the kind of extreme concentration required to play an instrument before. This is just on another level. It's not the notes that throw me off; it's just the concentration to maintain that kind of speed that's holding me back. I can't imagine getting to 150bpm. It almost feels unattainable. I think it's the fact that I'm used to playing with a single pick across 2-3 strings vs 3 picks playing all 5 strings almost randomly. Seems to require a lot of brain power and concentration and I'm not even at the fast bpm's yet.

I'm far more comfortable playing with just my fingers, but are picks required for those really fast speeds? Are there any tips that you folks could offer me? I did buy a lifetime sub to Tunefox and have been learning 3 songs at once to start broadening the horizon a bit. Any tips and techniques you could offer would be so much appreciated.

Thank you!
Bret

SebastianRogers - Posted - 01/25/2024:  01:06:53

Hi Bret

Five years in here and what I've noticed is that there are distinct jumps in ability.

We were 'frog boiling' at the last rehearsal, where you start at say 100 bpm and each repition up the speed by 5 bpm.

I play comfortably at 100 bpm but after that it gets ropey.

I Saw the Light fell apart at 135bpm and Cluck Old Hen at 170bpm.

A week later I was playing with my teacher and we strolled through I Saw the Light at 120bpm.

It seems to boil down to the following.

1. Being able to play cleanly at a slower speed.
2. Being relaxed, smiling helps this a lot.
3. Concentrating on the song and not the mechanics.

You should not be thinking I need to hit this string on this beat with this fret held down, instead you sort of hear the tune in your head and your fingers, with no concious direction just are in the right place.

To achieve this all you have to do is practice, and then practice some more. Oh and then some more, and then a little bit more.

I love practicing, as much as playing.

It sounds like you have achieved all this with a single pick, think of how much effort you put into that, and then rejoice that you have the time to do it again but this time with picks.

To answer your question about picks the music doesn't need them but when playing at high speeds with steel strings your fingers do.

Cheers

Sebastian

FenderFred - Posted - 01/25/2024:  02:28:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

I was gifted my first banjo for Christmas (through Banjo Ben) and naturally, gravitated toward learning Dueling Banjos. I'm perfectly comfortable playing at 100-105bmp, but once I'm at 110-115, my eyes are squinting, my head is tilted, and steam is comin out my ears trying to keep up with Tunefox.



I've been playing guitar for about 30 years and play Pantera and Metallica solos on youtube without much trouble, so I'm no stranger to speed, but I've never experienced the kind of extreme concentration required to play an instrument before. This is just on another level. It's not the notes that throw me off; it's just the concentration to maintain that kind of speed that's holding me back. I can't imagine getting to 150bpm. It almost feels unattainable. I think it's the fact that I'm used to playing with a single pick across 2-3 strings vs 3 picks playing all 5 strings almost randomly. Seems to require a lot of brain power and concentration and I'm not even at the fast bpm's yet.



I'm far more comfortable playing with just my fingers, but are picks required for those really fast speeds? Are there any tips that you folks could offer me? I did buy a lifetime sub to Tunefox and have been learning 3 songs at once to start broadening the horizon a bit. Any tips and techniques you could offer would be so much appreciated.



Thank you!

Bret

---

Some people have a gift for playing fast. The rest of us are amazed when it happens. The experts I have come across say practice slowly to play fast. I guess they mean be patient. 

phb - Posted - 01/25/2024:  02:29:17

Picks aren't needed for speed, they are needed for tone. 110bpm sounds pretty good to me for somebody just starting with the three-finger right hand technique. 110 bpm is a challenge for me on most pieces except for may be very standard Scruggs-style stuff.

Bill H - Posted - 01/25/2024:  03:25:32

Frog boiling. I like that term. That had been my approach. If I can get to 120, I feel like I am getting somewhere. I might start at 80 or 90 and when I feel it is smooth enough, I play a couple of repetitions and go up by 5 bpm until I hit my max. It has been a slow process. I play weekly with a group, and that is a huge help in building speed. Trying to keep up with the fiddles will either kill you or cure you.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/25/2024:  04:26:15

First of all, if you're a new player (even if you've played another instrument), you need to give your brain and fingers time to get used to a different genre of music. Very few people are talented enough to pick up a brand new instrument and start playing like a professional.

You're having to get used to using 3 fingers and picks instead of just one flatpick. You're having to learn new chord shapes, new techniques like rolls and hot licks.

My advice: don't worry about speed. It will come when it's ready. If you try to rush speed, you'll end up being a sloppy banjo picker.

Having said that, it doesn't hurt to try to speed up when practicing, but when you get to the point you make mistakes, slow it back down and work on timing, tone and technique.

Just my 2 cents worth of suggestions.

Alex Z - Posted - 01/25/2024:  06:34:33

Are we all counting beats per minutes the same way?   That's been a difficulty from time to time in the past.

    "I've never experienced the kind of extreme concentration required to play an instrument before. This is just on another level. It's not the notes that throw me off; it's just the concentration to maintain that kind of speed that's holding me back. I can't imagine getting to 150bpm. It almost feels unattainable. I think it's the fact that I'm used to playing with a single pick across 2-3 strings vs 3 picks playing all 5 strings almost randomly. Seems to require a lot of brain power and concentration and I'm not even at the fast bpm's yet."

Since you asked:  You've been playing only one month.  Maybe 50 hours or so of total playing time.  Playing the 5-string banjo is not easy (although plucking each individual note is easy, same as pressing a key on a piano).

The end objective is not to be able to concentrate more, but rather eventually to have the brain and fingers trained so that the player needs very little conscious concentration even when playing complex tunes.

So (a) cut your practice speeds in half, and (b) come back in 2 more months.  By then you'll have a sense of how the brain and fingers are gradually getting trained to do something new.

Hope this helps.

KCJones - Posted - 01/25/2024:  06:35:08

Three thoughts:



1 - slow is accurate, accurate is fast. To increase speed, play at half speed with a metronome. Get your timing exactly on the beat, perfectly. Only then should you increase speed. Tension is your enemy, if you start to build tension in your upper body, you're playing too fast and need to slow down.



2 - don't wait until you've mastered one song before you move on to the next. If you can play FMB at 100bpm, you should take a break from that tune and go play some other tunes. If you're not careful you'll get into a "lick rut", where no matter what you do you end up defaulting back to the chords and licks you're comfortable with, and it's difficult to get out of that. I know a few older guys at the jam that have 2-3 licks per chord shape and they've been doing those same 2-3 licks for 25 years, no matter what the song is, every time, and it's just boring. Don't be like that. Variety of practice is critical.



3 - Yes, you need picks. For both speed and for tone. Get over it, get the picks, put them on, bend them so they fit right, and play. After a week or two you'll never know the difference and start to prefer them. Sure, you can play without picks, lots of people do, but if you want to play bluegrass banjo at bluegrass tempos, you need picks.

Edited by - KCJones on 01/25/2024 06:39:23

stanleytone - Posted - 01/25/2024:  07:24:19

Dueling Banjos is not what id call a song for most beginners to tackle in the beginning.
Your main focus should be learning to vamp the 3 different major chord shapes, learn some simple chord progressions and some tunes that relate to them ,and learn to play various roll patterns thru said chord progressions, mixing them up as you get better.That will keep you busy for quite a while. Then come some of the most basic/used licks that put those roll patterns to even better use. Speed aint nothin without clarity .

Sunrise Lee - Posted - 01/25/2024:  08:16:56

If you are playing at 100 BPM and you have been playing since Christmas that is already an accomplishment. I would love to hear an example of your playing.

For me, and I am not a fast player, speed is something that I have to work on everyday. If I take some time off it suffers. If I am at my best I can hit around 115 BPM and have around 5 years on the banjo. I too have played guitar for a long time but I was more Gilmour than Dime, though I love both. Speed has never been my thing. I think the biggest hurdle for me is staying relaxed as I move up in speed. I, and this is probably common, have the tendency to tense up and try to power through at fast speeds when really the opposite is necessary. Staying relaxed, appropriate posture and hand position are what I focus on. I took some lessons from a really good teacher that really helped me with this though I still have a ton of work to do. Enjoy the process!

RB3 - Posted - 01/25/2024:  08:36:10

Since you referenced beats-per-minute in your post, I presume that you're using a metronome. You can use the metronome methodically to build speed. If 105 bpm is comfortable, play at that speed for a few minutes, then increase the setting to 107, and then play at that speed for a few minutes. Then drop back to 105 for a few minutes. Then take it up to 109 for a few minutes. Then back to 105. Then up to 111, and so on. If you alternate between playing comfortably and pushing yourself in small increments beyond your ability, I think you'll be surprised how quickly your speed will improve.

If you're playing Bluegrass, the banjo is meant to be played with picks.  You should practice the way you intend to play; practice with picks!

Edited by - RB3 on 01/25/2024 08:40:16

heavy5 - Posted - 01/25/2024:  09:32:25

Speed is usually not quality , slow down & smell the roses --- that's where the intricacies lie .

Pomeroy - Posted - 01/25/2024:  09:35:54

If you practice regularly a progressive speed increase is something that happens naturally and symbiotically in relation to improving ability.



If for some reason there is an immediate need to push that process one efficient way to achieve that goal is to spend some of your practice time every day playing at (but not beyond) the precise maximum tempo where you are able to maintain accuracy and musicality. You should feel on the edge but be holding it together. Playing at a tempo that is too fast and where mistakes occur won't work. In time that tempo where it felt stressful but you can hold it all together will become easier. By definition you will now have a new slightly higher maximum tempo where you feel stressed but can hold it all together i.e. a deliberately practiced speed increase.

Edited by - Pomeroy on 01/25/2024 09:40:19

foxdog175 - Posted - 01/25/2024:  18:28:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sunrise Lee

I would love to hear an example of your playing.

---

youtube.com/watch?v=QLQro5a-W_A

That was the first time I've ever heard myself playing alone without Tunefox behind me...sloppier than I was expecting.  This is going to be a long journey!

Thank you everyone for your input.  I've read through it all and have taken a number of things away from this thread.

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 01/25/2024:  19:22:52

Het Bret,

I shred metal also. Love the pantera, not so much metallica but for whom the bell tolls right.

As a point of reference I was comfortably hitting 140 bpm after 6 months of 2 to 4 hour days. Im happy there and I needed to practice guitar more cuz its my bread winner so Im at 1 hr on the jo and 3 hours on the guitars now.

Its different than tapping the frets for speed fer sure. I do a lot more guitar shredding fingerstyle now. I also wear a Fred Kelly bumblebee pick on my thumb so I can do both guitar style picking and scruggs without switching picks.

Owen - Posted - 01/25/2024:  20:16:08

In Lakeland FL. apparently there's a right/wrong speed for humping...  

 

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 01/25/2024:  23:25:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

I was gifted my first banjo for Christmas (through Banjo Ben) and naturally, gravitated toward learning Dueling Banjos. I'm perfectly comfortable playing at 100-105bmp, but once I'm at 110-115, my eyes are squinting, my head is tilted, and steam is comin out my ears trying to keep up with Tunefox.



I've been playing guitar for about 30 years and play Pantera and Metallica solos on youtube without much trouble, so I'm no stranger to speed, but I've never experienced the kind of extreme concentration required to play an instrument before. This is just on another level. It's not the notes that throw me off; it's just the concentration to maintain that kind of speed that's holding me back. I can't imagine getting to 150bpm. It almost feels unattainable. I think it's the fact that I'm used to playing with a single pick across 2-3 strings vs 3 picks playing all 5 strings almost randomly. Seems to require a lot of brain power and concentration and I'm not even at the fast bpm's yet.



I'm far more comfortable playing with just my fingers, but are picks required for those really fast speeds? Are there any tips that you folks could offer me? I did buy a lifetime sub to Tunefox and have been learning 3 songs at once to start broadening the horizon a bit. Any tips and techniques you could offer would be so much appreciated.



Thank you!

Bret

---

As others have said, speed is the last thing on the list after you master accuracy, solid timing and great tone. And taste.

Wearing picks will help you play faster, there is just less friction when you're sliding metal or plastic over metal.

Speed is a function of practise and economic hand mechanics. The more you practise, the faster you can play. But you say it takes so much concentration to play fast. There's your problem right there. Because after you've been playing long enough, you won't have to think about every note you're playing. You'll just be thinking about timing, and tone and playing appropriately. Maybe that sounds boring to you.

phb - Posted - 01/26/2024:  02:34:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sunrise Lee

I would love to hear an example of your playing.

---

youtube.com/watch?v=QLQro5a-W_A

That was the first time I've ever heard myself playing alone without Tunefox behind me...sloppier than I was expecting.  This is going to be a long journey!

Thank you everyone for your input.  I've read through it all and have taken a number of things away from this thread.

---

You ain't playing the "Foggy Mountain Roll" like Earl did 

You use IMIMTIMT while the canonical way to play it is IMTMTIMT. And now excuse me while I'm looking for cover...

Sunrise Lee - Posted - 01/26/2024:  06:20:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sunrise Lee

I would love to hear an example of your playing.

---

youtube.com/watch?v=QLQro5a-W_A

That was the first time I've ever heard myself playing alone without Tunefox behind me...sloppier than I was expecting.  This is going to be a long journey!

Thank you everyone for your input.  I've read through it all and have taken a number of things away from this thread.

---

That sounded good, and it seems like from your years of guitar you have a good idea on what needs improved.  I would say you will want finger picks on even though they feel weird at first.  Coming from guitar that was an adjustment for me that took a while to get used to but now if feels weird without them.  If you want some opinions on picks feel free to message me or check the past forum posts as there are a ton.

Just be aware that banjo can become an addiction.  I barely play my guitars anymore :).  

foxdog175 - Posted - 01/26/2024:  06:33:24

@Sunrise Lee I'm definitely interested in pick selection! I currently have these:

amazon.com/gp/product/B07PM83M...TF8&psc=1
store.banjobenclark.com/produc...nger-pick

I'm not sure where they should sit on the fingers. Should the pick tip just barely sit beyond the fingers? After 20-30 minutes with them on, I'll take them off and I can see indents where they squeezed my fingertips. Is that bad for circulation? Maybe they're too tight?

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/26/2024:  06:49:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sunrise Lee

I would love to hear an example of your playing.

---

youtube.com/watch?v=QLQro5a-W_A

That was the first time I've ever heard myself playing alone without Tunefox behind me...sloppier than I was expecting.  This is going to be a long journey!

Thank you everyone for your input.  I've read through it all and have taken a number of things away from this thread.

---

I notice that in that common "tag" or "fill in" lick, when you pick the first note of the third-string slide, you're using your thumb. That is just about guaranteed to impose a speed limit on your playing, since it means that you're playing two successive rolling notes with the same finger! (It speaks well for your dexterity that you're able to play as well as you do despite that.)



Use your index for that note instead. I suspect if you're doing it for that lick, you may be repeating a finger in other places when you play, in general. I also note that you're using left-hand slides in places where you could be using hammerons or pulloffs. Those may contribute to your speed limit, too, though not as seriously as the picking-hand issue.

foxdog175 - Posted - 01/26/2024:  07:43:41

quote:

---

I notice that in that common "tag" or "fill in" lick, when you pick the first note of the third-string slide, you're using your thumb. That is just about guaranteed to impose a speed limit on your playing, since it means that you're playing two successive rolling notes with the same finger! (It speaks well for your dexterity that you're able to play as well as you do despite that.)

Use your index for that note instead. I suspect if you're doing it for that lick, you may be repeating a finger in other places when you play, in general. I also note that you're using left-hand slides in places where you could be using hammerons or pulloffs. Those may contribute to your speed limit, too, though not as seriously as the picking-hand issue.

---

This is the stuff I really need to know, thank you.  I'm not sure what the tag or fill-in is.  What's the time stamp on it?  Is that at 0:11?  Or is that at 0:32?

So I should never repeat the same thumb/finger twice in a row when jumping to another string?

And always use a hammer-on/pull-off instead of a slide?

And always use picks...

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/26/2024:  08:00:08

The lick you play at 0:21--a standard way to fill in the end of a line on a G chord. (It's got other uses too, by the way.)

It's OK to repeat a finger IF the first of the two notes is longer (like a quarter-note instead of an eighth-note), but when you're going from one fast note to the next, it will really slow you down.

And I'm certainly NOT saying don't do slides! I love slides. But each of the possible LH articulations has its place. You may find that you can squeeze out a few more BPMs if you play the "Foggy Mountain" lick (0:25) with two hammerons instead of two slides; that way, your left hand doesn't move around as much. In general, eliminating unnecessary motion can contribute to faster playing.

foxdog175 - Posted - 01/26/2024:  08:15:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

The lick you play at 0:21--a standard way to fill in the end of a line on a G chord. (It's got other uses too, by the way.)



You may find that you can squeeze out a few more BPMs if you play the "Foggy Mountain" lick (0:25) with two hammerons instead of two slides; that way, your left hand doesn't move around as much.

---

The fact that you picked out that inefficiency blows my mind.  I had to slow it down to 50% speed, watch it several times and look for it to even find it.

As for the Foggy Mountain lick, will do.  Thank you.

I've been watching banjo players on youtube and notice some of them keep their picking hand in a claw-shape and make really fine, small strokes and immediately return back to that claw-shape after each pick.  You can't even see the last segment of their picking fingers, they're tucked in so tight.  I feel like my hand is more stretched out than it should be.  Maybe I'm overthinking it...

Lastly, is best to anchor both pinky and ring finger together or just the ring finger alone? 

Thanks for taking the time.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/26/2024:  08:23:25

Well, I've been teaching beginners for about 30 years, and I've seen that thumb thing a lot, so I'm primed to notice it when it happens.

I'd say anchor whatever works for you. Maybe half of all players anchor both fingers. A smaller but significant number (including Sammy Shelor, Alison Brown, Tom Adams, and Allen Shelton) anchor only the pinky. An even smaller number anchor just the ring. Everyone's body is a little different. We can make suggestions, but you'll have to figure out what works best for you.

And in general, you've made an excellent start!

gcpicken - Posted - 01/26/2024:  11:33:02

As you work on speed, don’t neglect your accents. They are what makes your playing sound like a song.

Brucie - Posted - 01/26/2024:  14:59:13

Yeah I agree with FenderFred.
Time practicing gives you the technique & your speed slowly increases. It is frustrating for a start when you feel like you're not making music.
The people we see playing fast have years & hours of practice behind them.

monstertone - Posted - 02/07/2024:  13:38:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by foxdog175

I was gifted my first banjo for Christmas (through Banjo Ben) and naturally, gravitated toward learning Dueling Banjos. I'm perfectly comfortable playing at 100-105bmp, but once I'm at 110-115, my eyes are squinting, my head is tilted, and steam is comin out my ears trying to keep up with Tunefox.



I've been playing guitar for about 30 years and play Pantera and Metallica solos on youtube without much trouble, so I'm no stranger to speed, but I've never experienced the kind of extreme concentration required to play an instrument before. This is just on another level. It's not the notes that throw me off; it's just the concentration to maintain that kind of speed that's holding me back. I can't imagine getting to 150bpm. It almost feels unattainable. I think it's the fact that I'm used to playing with a single pick across 2-3 strings vs 3 picks playing all 5 strings almost randomly. Seems to require a lot of brain power and concentration and I'm not even at the fast bpm's yet.



I'm far more comfortable playing with just my fingers, but are picks required for those really fast speeds? Are there any tips that you folks could offer me? I did buy a lifetime sub to Tunefox and have been learning 3 songs at once to start broadening the horizon a bit. Any tips and techniques you could offer would be so much appreciated.



Thank you!

Bret

---

Ahem,,,,Dueling Banjos is not exactly beginner material. Although technically not that difficult for an experienced Bluegrass banjo player, it is a whole nuther galaxy apart from heavy metal (electric) guitar. Entirely different (oddball) instrument, finger picks, yes, definitely, required, totally different music genre, not to mention the mindset that goes with playing it. 

Rather than beating your head against the wall with DIY, sitting down face to face with someone familiar with the 5-string banjo & Bluegrass music once in a while could prove a tremendous help.

Edited by - monstertone on 02/07/2024 13:41:45

JimJake - Posted - 02/08/2024:  20:37:13

I've recently gone back to slow speeds on my first tunes I learned. Foggy mountain breakdown....Ballad of Jed etc....
I found that even at slow speeds I was goofing up in the same places. I did not have them "down"! I slowed them down and got them played correctly and the speeds increased dramatically. I also have cripple creek down very well. When I play it at 135 to 140....I am conscious of my relaxation that makes it possible. I always start with CC and try to transfer that feeling and state of mind and body into the other songs. Picks are a must...IMO. GOOD LUCK!

FenderFred - Posted - 02/09/2024:  01:38:56

To add to my earlier post. There are some great tunes out there that sound amazing when played at a slow tempo. Amazing Grace springs to mind but there are many others.

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/09/2024:  04:43:51

Chuckle, this thread gave me palpitations. I’ve never aspired to speed in anything I do.

The first lick I learned on my Christmas banjo was the riff to Rhiannon Giddens, Wayfarin’ Stranger... infatuated sigh, that’s my idea of banjo playing.

My teacher reassured me not to worry, the end point does not always have to be outracing everyone.  

I will be mastering the art of "zen" banjo.

Edited by - Prairiedogdance on 02/09/2024 04:47:40

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 02/09/2024:  05:01:56

Pete Wernick advises using the "loop method" for tough. Sometimes tough parts change your timing. here is the loop method in practice.

youtube.com/watch?v=va-hXu4jYQw

Here is Pete's written and more in dept explanation of the loop method:

Here are some of the benefits Dr Banjo lists from using the loop method:

- Cleaning up rough spots

 -Increasing speed

- Memorizing

- Improving tone and clarity

- Developing finger muscle strength and coordination

drbanjo.com/wp-content/uploads...banjo.pdf

Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 02/09/2024 05:03:05

wrench13 - Posted - 02/09/2024:  05:48:59

LOL - I did not know that the technique of taking a little section of a tune and playing it over and over again, continuously with out stops or rests had acquired a formal name, but yes "Loop" method works very well in getting a tricky phrase down. I been using that for decades in getting fiddle tunes and licks perfected. CAUTION - Loop method practicing is one way to drive your significant other out of their minds. Many is the times my wife has screamed down the stairs to the basement "Haven't you learned that %^(_(*#@)! song yet???".

I've not tried to use that method to increase speed, as I naturally play most tunes fast. Seems like it could be used for that, if you have a good sense of timing and tempo.

coalcracker2 - Posted - 02/09/2024:  05:55:29

You may want to consider checking out Banjo Ben Clark's Speed Test.
He provides a solid, structured method for improving speed if you're willing
to commit to the steps in the test.
Give it a try ... nothing to lose right???

Prairiedogdance - Posted - 02/09/2024:  07:51:37

Hey folks, I’m really sorry about my “zen” comment, I didn’t realize which forum I was in, blush. I thought I was in the “general help” section, and thought I was being “cute.” Still learning my way around here. I’m trying to delete my comment, since in this venue it comes off as a wee bit snarky, ack. (Truly totally unintentional and directed at my own ineptitude.) I have lost the “edit” button to delete it. So please forgive the faux pas and race on! I am in awe.

krw2dbw - Posted - 02/09/2024:  11:07:03

I am now 73 and my hand no longer obey what my brain tells them to do. I played fingerstyle guitar, scruggs style banjo, mandolin, and lastly lap-steel. I always played with 3 fingers and a thumb. On a banjo that boils down to, thumb on the 5th string and occasionally on the 4th, index finger in the 3rd and the 4th, middle finger on the 2nd string and the ring finger on the first string. Using more fingers and having some of them dedicated to a certain string would seem to make things easier and so, faster. Not so. It was clean, but required nail care to produce any tone or volume at all. Without fingerpick there is a lot of drag which does slow you down. I never could play with any degree of speed. My right hand gave out before I had time to re-learn thumb and 2 fingers. Finger picking with my nails was natural and using my thumb and three fingers allowed me to avoid learning patterns that were new. Lazyness is in there too. Also Playing alone does not help because there is no one to push you.

Skybanjo53 - Posted - 02/09/2024:  16:08:43

Hello! Regarding the speed bump. This has been my experience. For whatever reason, it was natural for me to play fast(after much practice) but this was at a sacrifice to timing. Despite years of playing, the timing and speed took some time to get together. Working at a studio, good sound equipment, and 8 plus hours later(4-2 hour sessions), things got better. It is easier to play fast when playing in time, plus way more enjoyable. Probably everyone has a maximum rpm. If yours is lower than some, enjoy playing some slower songs, not every song needs to be played at breakdown speed! Al

optionzz - Posted - 02/09/2024:  16:35:13

Thanks to all for this "speeeed bump" discussion.
At age 60, my mentor dropped a banjo in my lap at a jam. I was hooked. Spent several years "working" on banjo playing. Got good enough to satisfy myself, as long as I stayed at slow speed (maybe 2/3 speed). After serveral years, went back to guitar, just could not get up to speed. I suspect it has to do with lack of "muscle memory." My subconsious seems to think I have to direct each finger to to each note. But it is good to hear others' approaches. Thanks!
Pete A

eccles - Posted - 02/10/2024:  03:34:49

At 80 and with a recently acquired banjo I have decided not to bother too much about speed. There are in fact quite a few old tunes where high speed does not make sense anyway. Just one old British army tune which I have pretty well mastered is called "Over the Hills and Far Away" and playing it at much more than about 95 doesn't make sense because it's for marching. I venture to suggest that the same would apply to many of the attractive tunes of your famous John Phillip Sousa.

Banjo Attack - Posted - 02/13/2024:  18:47:26

Thought I would make this my 1st post as this is a topic that is quite relevant to me right now. I purchased my first banjo a month ago and am taking the 30 day Eli Gilbert course. I have improved, but I seem to be progressing so slowly (FMB around the campfire may not happen this summer :). I saw this 6 minute Youtube vid on skill mastery. I found it not only quite helpful, but also somewhat re-assuring.