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chuckv97 - Posted - 01/21/2024: 12:52:21
Off the top o’ me head, I couldn’t think of anywhere he did. Whaddya say?
would you call this "Scruggs-style" ?
Edited by - chuckv97 on 01/21/2024 12:55:24
RB3 - Posted - 01/22/2024: 07:29:33
I can't remember ever seeing a transcribed tablature of Scruggs' playing that includes this iconic banjo roll. I suspect that it was something that he did not use. But, to the extent that we use his name to refer to the general style of playing that he popularized, I'm inclined to say that this should be considered a part of "Scruggs Style".
The second-generation players, such as Osborne, Crowe, Dillard, etc. adopted the same approach used by Scruggs as they developed some of their own licks. Those licks seem to me to be a logical extension of what Scruggs did, rather than a departure from it. I think that licks like this could be considered to have been discovered, rather than invented.
I would be interested to know who was first to incorporate this roll into their playing. I dug out an old Mel Bay Bluegrass Banjo instruction book by Sonny Osborne that I bought back in the Sixties when I began to learn to play the banjo. The publishing date of that book is 1964. There's no mention of the word "roll" in the instruction book, but there are repetitive right-hand exercises that include the 1-2-1-5 right-hand pattern. The first time I encountered the use of this roll was when I learned "Old Joe Clark" a long time ago. "Old Joe Clark" is one of the songs that's tabbed in the Osborne book, but it doesn't use the 1-2-1-5 roll, and curiously, neither do any of the other songs in the book.
Edited by - RB3 on 01/22/2024 07:31:14
chuckv97 - Posted - 01/22/2024: 07:53:00
Yeah, thanks Wayne. I had that book too,,, I think I learned some of Old Joe Clark and a bit of Red Wing from that book. The only instance I can think of that Earl used this - or actually a variant of it- is in his 2 finger backup “teardrop” (I think it’s called) style, but of course that’s only on 2 strings and doesn’t incorporate the 5th string.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 01/22/2024 07:54:05
Eddie Collins - Posted - 01/22/2024: 09:39:19
Nice replies by Wayne and Chuck. Earl typically would play something like strings 125 125 12 (a reverse roll) when he wanted to incorporate multiple first-string melody notes. I remember seeing a transcription in Banjo Newsletter of Earl's playing from a jam session where it had the "Doug's Roll" in it and thought it very unusual, but don't remember what tune it was, or other related circumstances.
monstertone - Posted - 01/22/2024: 10:05:06
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I thought I heard a very brief 1215 on Earl's picking of LB. And while we're on the subject, John Hickman once played part of a tape he had recorded of Earl doing a bit longer section of melodic style picking on LB. John said he had taped many of those early morning "Marthe White" shows. Wonder what ever happened to those tapes?
Regardless of who originated the lick, Hub Nitchie could probably be credited with calling it the "Down Hill Dillards" lick (re: Doug's Tune?) in BNL, & it stuck. 
Edited by - monstertone on 01/22/2024 10:14:44
RB3 - Posted - 01/23/2024: 08:20:36
What is "LB"?
monstertone - Posted - 01/25/2024: 10:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by RB3
What is "LB"?
Leather Britches.
Jack Baker - Posted - 01/25/2024: 10:38:28
Never gave it a thought, and never will give it a thought because it is not possible to know every movement a player makes while playing. Licks and Rolls simply overlap with players... Practice is the future...Jack
Edited by - Jack Baker on 01/25/2024 10:50:50
FenderFred - Posted - 01/25/2024: 12:11:54
quote:
Originally posted by Jack Baker
Never gave it a thought, and never will give it a thought because it is not possible to know every movement a player makes while playing. Licks and Rolls simply overlap with players... Practice is the future...Jack
Great answer Jack. I was struggling to come up with a response to this query. Earl was Earl he played banjo his way, many pickers tried to imitate him, others found their own path.
Tractor1 - Posted - 01/25/2024: 13:51:09
I feel that Earl's fingers probably played that right hand sequence for 4 notes here or there--but only as part of some other phrase--Like Eddy said --if he wanted to talk with the middle he would use other patterns
but not as a standalone delivery roll along the lines of the runs in supersonic Doug's version of banjolina
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 01/25/2024: 16:15:26
My understanding of Earl’s playing was that he used rolls (which he didn’t call rolls) to get from one melody note to the next, and the pattern wasn’t that important as long as it was in time and executed well. There are a few exceptions.
chuckv97 - Posted - 01/31/2024: 00:00:37
See my post in Michael Corcoran’s OJC thread
