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 Playing Advice: Bluegrass (Scruggs) Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Hello Dolly - plectrum/4 string to 5 string advice


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/395182

shellociraptor - Posted - 01/15/2024:  22:36:51


Hi!

This is my first post, and I'm not confident that I'm posting in the best spot for this question, so please let me know what you think.

Second disclaimer, I am basically brand new to banjo, and there is so much more to it than I ever realized! To the point where I'm nervous to ask questions. But I want to play and understand, so I hope you all will be patient with me. :)

To the question!

Tl;dr: I want to play the Louis Armstrong version of "Hello Dolly" on a 5 string banjo, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm looking for any beginner-friendly advice. :)


I have a 5 string banjo, and I've started out by learning Scrugg's style. I was kinda poked into joining a jazz group here (I live in rural Japan) despite having almost no musical ability or a 4 string banjo. One or the other, and I might feel okay, but as it is... yikes! The group leader is just super nice and enthusiastic and doesn't care that I can't play. He is just really interested in having fun, and he is curious about the banjo. Mine is the first he's seen in person!

Anyway, he really wants me to learn the Louis Armstrong version of "Hello Dolly," and I really just don't know what to do. I saw on this post banjohangout.org/archive/319746 that someone wrote they play it on a 5 string, but didn't go beyond that.

I was wondering if anyone else has played this version on a 5 string banjo before? If so, I'll take any advice I can get. If it matters, I guess the group would probably play it in its original tuning.

Again, this doesn't necessarily feel like the right place to post this, but Scruggs is the only style I've tried, and I wasn't sure of the right place to ask.

Thank you for your time!

Tractor1 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  03:43:36




Don Reno did a great job here







 





Jason Skinner a Reno expert covers it here


Edited by - Tractor1 on 01/16/2024 03:46:57

Tractor1 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  03:53:22


my humble attempt on my baritone banjo --9 years ago





 

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/16/2024:  04:36:13


There's a tab in the tab archives that you might look at. However, a caveat: it's for intermediate pickers so it may be too advanced for you as a beginner. Go here: banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...l&v=17602

You will need the right software to download, listen, play and print. There's a free partial version of Tabledit here: tabledit.com/tefview/index.shtml

All our tabs are free so browse at your leisure. Enjoy!

trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  05:58:35


Alternatively, you can easily "park" your 5th string on the side of the bridge and then play it as a plectrum banjo. You may want to detune the 5th a bit...but I never found it necessary.

Plectrum tuning just drops the 4th string to C: CGBD. If you have a guitar background (or guitar chords), tune DGBE (same as the treble 4 guitar strings).

I have always found it easier for me to play jazz plectrum style.

Tractor1 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  08:02:50


I bet the late Eddy Davis a member here --has a fantastic version on a 4 string

Fathand - Posted - 01/16/2024:  11:30:08


If you want everything to be less confusing, you can tune your plectrum DGBD same as first 4 strings of your 5 string. All your chords and melody notes will now be in the same place and you can get melody and chords from 5 string tab. You can also tune a baritone uke that way.

This works well particularly if plectrum is your secondary instrument and you don't play it as often.

You can also tune your 5 string to the old Standard Tuning, gCGBD which parallels the standard plectrum tuning but there is less support materials.

L50EF15 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  11:37:33


I miss Eddy. I learned a lot from him. Here’s one version he did, on tenor:

youtu.be/H3mszzNgMic?si=QdUzkzoHoNm-djpD

For what it’s worth, I treat my five string as a plectrum, but I keep the now common open G tuning; keeping it opens up some interesting and unique chord voicings. And plectrum wizard Sean Moyses uses that tuning on his four string, so I know I’m not completely crazy.

All that said, it’s not (nor is Eddy Davis) Scruggs style. The clips upthread show how the tune can be approached in that manner. You might want to check in the jazz/trad-4 string forum if you decide to approach this with plectrum rather than Scruggs technique.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 01/16/2024:  12:17:38


First step is to learn the chords! I don’t think you need to change your tuning. Next step is to figure out what works best with the band. Scruggs style you could just play rolls through the chords, a rolling backup. But if they’re playing trad jazz then you’re really part of the rhythm section. I would lose the fifth string and strum with a plectrum in that case, as others have suggested.

RB-1 - Posted - 01/16/2024:  13:22:55


What Laurence said. yes



Since you're asking for 5 string, I tried playing the melody Scruggs style, just the way I would approach other non-Bluegrass music that has a swing beat to it.



Lo and behold, I could -sort of- play it (in C, standard gDGBD tuning). But it's not simple. It needs a thorough work out to be really good and I don't have much time on my hands for now.



If you can give an example of what you can play, I (we!) can estimate your chance of success and maybe adapt things so you can at least gie it a try.



Having said that, my first tune ever was 'Sweet Dixie' as played by Alan Munde and I fugured that one out by ear in  a week's time or so.



But wanting it so badly, giving up was no option. That came later when I was in over my head...laugh


Edited by - RB-1 on 01/16/2024 13:23:37

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 01/16/2024:  14:47:09


Here you go, nothing Scruggs about, basically as the recording.

banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=26877



 


shellociraptor - Posted - 01/16/2024:  17:26:29


Wow, thank you so much, everyone! I really appreciate all the help. I'm looking forward to poking around the various options and materials when I get home from work! As I said, I'm very new, so the variety of responses is super fun and interesting. Thank you!!

shellociraptor - Posted - 01/16/2024:  19:46:22


quote:

Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

Here you go, nothing Scruggs about, basically as the recording.

banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=26877



 






Thank you so much for this! I'm going to give this a try and see what they think. For the band's purposes, I suspect this is more the route I should go. 

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/17/2024:  06:53:22


I've mimicked plectrum and tenor on my 5-string many times. Use a flatpick (preferably not too heavy). Either steer clear of the fifth string by controlling your picking hand, or mute it--either with the heel of your picking hand or the thumb of your fretting hand, or by slipping a wad of something under it.

Tractor1 - Posted - 01/17/2024:  07:58:57


sometimes I also fret the fifth with the finger --fretting the fourth---
I would guess tuned in fifths would provide more eddy style 9ths --13ths etc.
just a guess

banjopaolo - Posted - 01/18/2024:  10:50:49


To play in a trad jazz band I think the best thing is to strum your banjo as a plectrum with the loosen fifth string, plectrum and five string have exactly the same neck and you can use the tuning you are more familiar, tenor banjo is different because it has a shorter neck (19 fret) and it is tuned in fifths like mandolin family instrument…

Here’s a video I posted playing the same song on three different kind of banjo
Have fun with your banjo!


Tractor1 - Posted - 01/18/2024:  12:18:34


I would like the wider spread of notes --available in chord positions on a tenor---Eddy would throw in colors from higher octaves that would be too strong as seconds or fourths etc.--I ask no agreement---just my own view-
I actually was already working on a Dolly rehash before this thread--I will do my chord musings on the plastic keys--
around on the net there are several different opinions on the proper chord for the fills--most of the chords are quiet folky moves --but it never stops adding new ones --more --along the lines of-- ten pan alley era stuff

shellociraptor - Posted - 01/18/2024:  19:53:37


quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo

To play in a trad jazz band I think the best thing is to strum your banjo as a plectrum with the loosen fifth string, plectrum and five string have exactly the same neck and you can use the tuning you are more familiar, tenor banjo is different because it has a shorter neck (19 fret) and it is tuned in fifths like mandolin family instrument…



Here’s a video I posted playing the same song on three different kind of banjo

Have fun with your banjo!






This is really fun to listen to! Thank you for sharing!

banjopaolo - Posted - 01/19/2024:  02:23:23


quote:

Originally posted by shellociraptor

quote:

Originally posted by banjopaolo

To play in a trad jazz band I think the best thing is to strum your banjo as a plectrum with the loosen fifth string, plectrum and five string have exactly the same neck and you can use the tuning you are more familiar, tenor banjo is different because it has a shorter neck (19 fret) and it is tuned in fifths like mandolin family instrument…



Here’s a video I posted playing the same song on three different kind of banjo

Have fun with your banjo!






This is really fun to listen to! Thank you for sharing!






You are welcome :-)

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