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Mikegivney - Posted - 07/26/2023: 05:43:49
I have been reading as many posts as I can re modes, trying to figure it out in practical application terms. I think I’ve wrapped my head around the”parent scale” idea of starting on the scale degree that matches the mode and using the accidentals from the parent scale (is that even close?).
I am also dabbling with the fiddle and the lesson program I use uses a bunch of tunes in Dorian, mixolydian, and aeolian.
When looking at sheet music (the dots), how am I to determine which of these modes is being represented ?
I may be slow but, I’m not able to figure it out as what is stated on the descriptor does not match the key signature and I’m at a loss as to what to look for.
Don’t hate me for the fiddle thing, I also do a lot of banjo from sheet music as a crutch when figuring out a tune (I’m an amateur in both theory and practice but totally love to geek out on this stuff). Thanks for any insight!
Culloden - Posted - 07/26/2023: 06:05:49
If you want to determine what mode a song is in:
1) What key signature is on the sheet music?
2) What note does the song end on?
That will determine what mode it is. From your post, it sounds like you are on the right track.
Edited by - Culloden on 07/26/2023 06:07:42
rmcdow - Posted - 07/26/2023: 06:18:59
Hopefully this will help.
trapdoor2 - Posted - 07/26/2023: 08:37:26
I have to listen to the music. For trad fiddle tunes, if it leads and end minor...but is not full minor (aeolian), the most likely candidate is Dorian and then Mixolydian. Sometimes the chord progressions can be misleading but if the progression starts on the ii, it is almost always Dorian. Starts on the vi? Maybe Mixolydian...if it isn't obviously aeolian.
There are many, many exceptions.
jack_beuthin - Posted - 07/26/2023: 09:03:33
You might find the forum thread linked here to be pertinent. I recorded a video in which I play Mississippi Sawyer (clawhammer) four times through, each time changing mode. I go from Ionian (major) to Mixolydian to Dorian (mountain minor) to Aeolian (minor) which are the most common modes in traditional music. There is a lot of interesting discussion around the video too. Also, I posted a tab to go with the demo.
Forum topic: banjohangout.org/topic/389423
Tab: hangoutstorage.com/banjohangou...32023.pdf
NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 07/26/2023: 10:36:17
I only play different varieties, starting positions, subsets and chord progressions found in the chromatic scale. What others call them is interesting but not necessary to play, undeerstand and more importantly, hear them when you start a riff\run from different frets.
250gibson - Posted - 07/26/2023: 12:34:32
quote:
Originally posted by Mikegivney
I have been reading as many posts as I can re modes, trying to figure it out in practical application terms. I think I’ve wrapped my head around the”parent scale” idea of starting on the scale degree that matches the mode and using the accidentals from the parent scale (is that even close?).
I am also dabbling with the fiddle and the lesson program I use uses a bunch of tunes in Dorian, mixolydian, and aeolian.
When looking at sheet music (the dots), how am I to determine which of these modes is being represented ?
I may be slow but, I’m not able to figure it out as what is stated on the descriptor does not match the key signature and I’m at a loss as to what to look for.
Don’t hate me for the fiddle thing, I also do a lot of banjo from sheet music as a crutch when figuring out a tune (I’m an amateur in both theory and practice but totally love to geek out on this stuff). Thanks for any insight!
I assume that something regarding a mode written on the sheet music you are looking at isn’t matching up with what is shown in the key signature? Different genres, composers and performance applications vary with how they write sheet music. For instance in an orchestral application for film, the music is written with no sharps or flats in the key signature, and the notes will have accidentals written by the notes. If I ever write anything out I use the key signature that allows me the least accidentals. If I were notating in D Dorian, I would use a key signature with no sharps or flats, however I have also heard of and have seen people notate D Dorian with 2 sharps in the Key signature (like D major) and then use accidentals to naturalize the needed notes.
You have to evaluate what is acting as the tonal center first then determine the intervals/scales etc, to determine the mode, can’t always go by a key signature.
banjoak - Posted - 07/26/2023: 13:48:01
quote:
Originally posted by 250gibson
You have to evaluate what is acting as the tonal center first then determine the intervals/scales etc, to determine the mode, can’t always go by a key signature.
Agree.
When looking at sheet music (the dots), how am I to determine which of these modes is being represented ?
As an alternative to looking at dots... given It's about how it sounds, so listening is a good way to start.
First, as mentioned above; listen for the key... defined as the tonal center. This reveals itself in different ways of how the melody is composed. It is the note that gives sense of resolve/home; listen for that sense of unresolved/hanging vs resolve (like Amen moment). As resolve it will often be at end of phrases/parts. It often is the last note; but not always. Listen for sense of resolve in what they call cadences; at end of mid phrases to give hanging un-resolve; (like the fifth) and concluding phrases, where toward end give sense of leading back into final conclusion of the home key.
Once have key; listen for other qualities that give the mode it's qualities; for example to third of key; if sound major or minor; and notice the sixth and seventh. Not only by themselves but how they interact harmonically with the other notes in phrases and importantly reinforce the tonal center. That covers most of the 4 common modes you will likely encounter in things like fiddle tunes.
Edited by - banjoak on 07/26/2023 13:52:26
Mikegivney - Posted - 07/28/2023: 04:00:42
Thank you all for these awesome comments and ideas! It really clears things up and helps explain what I was having trouble wrapping my head around.
As an aside for Jack B. , it was your video that got me headed down this rabbit hole just after you originally posted it. Funny you replied to this topic with that exact link. Great video.
jack_beuthin - Posted - 07/28/2023: 09:17:39
quote:
Originally posted by Mikegivney
Thank you all for these awesome comments and ideas! It really clears things up and helps explain what I was having trouble wrapping my head around.
As an aside for Jack B. , it was your video that got me headed down this rabbit hole just after you originally posted it. Funny you replied to this topic with that exact link. Great video.
Ha, well that video really stirred up a lot of discussion. I really like all the various ways of looking at modes that have been presented. Definitely a worthy topic, and hope you're on the up the rabbit hole, Mike!
b4idie - Posted - 07/28/2023: 09:32:37
Your video and corresponding tabs got me going on the topic too, several months back. Glad you took the time to put it out there for us.
'John Burke' 55 min
