The Yellow Dart - Posted - 07/02/2023:  19:05:46

I'm looking for a banjo chord chart that's all-encompassing. Something that includes oddities like 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, and shows the chord positions for up and down the neck. Any recommendations?

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 07/02/2023:  20:12:48

They're all here if you have an eye for it

All Chords

 

Culloden - Posted - 07/02/2023:  21:17:13

Hal Leonard makes a book called a Banjo Case Chord Book. It's long and narrow so it fits in a case and has all the chords in about eight different tunings for under $10. Available at most music stores, also on eBay and Amazon.
Having a chord chart on the computer is fine but you can take the book anywhere. The one I have cost $7.99 a few years ago.

KennyB - Posted - 07/03/2023:  04:07:26

You could make your own chord chart, that way it would have all the oddities you want, and would be arranged the way you like it. It might take a few tries to get it there.
I made one a few years ago and after I had gone through the exercise of figuring out the chords I wanted, I didn't need the chart any more.
I started by making a fretboard template with an Excel spreadsheet, Open Office would probably work just as well, copying the template as often as needed, and then filling in the notes.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/03/2023:  06:20:43

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/03/2023:  06:21:13

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/03/2023:  06:21:57

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/03/2023:  06:22:14

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/03/2023:  06:22:56

lyndabee - Posted - 07/03/2023:  07:40:52

Here's another option - I was gifted this book:

 

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/03/2023:  08:39:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Yellow Dart

I'm looking for a banjo chord chart that's all-encompassing. Something that includes oddities like 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, and shows the chord positions for up and down the neck. Any recommendations?

---

if you say the tunings==you use =I might chime in--

Alex Z - Posted - 07/03/2023:  09:02:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Yellow Dart

I'm looking for a banjo chord chart that's all-encompassing. Something that includes oddities like 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, and shows the chord positions for up and down the neck. Any recommendations?

---

It's going to be a large chart!

22 frets, 3 basic chord positions, that's 66 diagrams.

Major and minor grows it to 132 diagrams.

Add major 7th and minor 7th and 6th to each of the major and minor chords, that grows it to at least 396 diagrams (as there are different ways to add in the 7ths, etc.

Add 9ths, 11, 13, augmented, diminished, in various combinations, etc.

Now, with only 4 strings, not all of the diagrams will be unique.  For example, C major with a major 6th will have the same notes as a minor with a minor 7th.  This is what might make the chart manageable, and useful in playing, that one chord can be substituted for another and still give the same harmonic "flavor" to the music.

Let us know what you end up with.

Alex Z - Posted - 07/03/2023:  09:42:29

One way to absorb all the chords is to learn a single chord position with all of its variants, at one fret.

For example, root C at the 5th fret, bar position, then the variants around that position for

    C minor,

    C major with Maj 7, 

    C min w/Maj 7,

    C major with minor 7

    C minor with minor 7

    C major augmented

    C minor augmented

    C diminished

    C diminished 7

    C maj and C minor 9th, with and without 7th

    etc.

For some of these chord variants, there are a couple of different ways to make the chord.

This is learnable, and starts to build a mental framework for chords.

This can be done with all three basic chord shapes.

Then the shapes can be moved.  Want D 9th?  move everything up 2 frets.  Don't need to learn 30 more chords shapes.  Plus the fingers will be comfortable in the D9th position because it is exactly the same as the C9th.

Jazz guitarists and banjo players develop a similar metal framework -- know the chord shapes, then put 'em on the fret positions up and down the fingerboard.  "Moveable chord shapes" they are called.

Chord charts would be good for learning all the variants of C chords at the 5th fret.  After that, the player moves them up or down.

Hope this helps.

banjoak - Posted - 07/03/2023:  14:08:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Yellow Dart

I'm looking for a banjo chord chart that's all-encompassing. Something that includes oddities like 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, and shows the chord positions for up and down the neck. Any recommendations?

---

It's going to be a large chart!

22 frets, 3 basic chord positions, that's 66 diagrams.

Major and minor grows it to 132 diagrams.

Add major 7th and minor 7th and 6th to each of the major and minor chords, that grows it to at least 396 diagrams (as there are different ways to add in the 7ths, etc.

Add 9ths, 11, 13, augmented, diminished, in various combinations, etc.

Now, with only 4 strings, not all of the diagrams will be unique.  For example, C major with a major 6th will have the same notes as a minor with a minor 7th.  This is what might make the chart manageable, and useful in playing, that one chord can be substituted for another and still give the same harmonic "flavor" to the music.

Let us know what you end up with.

 

---

Add to this that there are different tunings. The OP does not mention.

The 4-string in fifths; CGDA? The common 5-string gDGBD? Or perhaps other tuning(s)?

But agree would be quite a bit, for every key and variation. As mentioned, what might be simpler, is just using basic moveable shape/voicing; same way major or minor chord 3 or 4 shapes; can extend those to include 7ths, 9th, 11ths, 13ths. As long as know which string is identifying the root; and note names up the neck.

Alternative to looking at or memorizing a chart, is to just learn how chords are made and work it out yourself on fretboard... starting with learning how to make any major/minor triads (root/third/fifth); once know that; then what note(s) needed to extend/modify. 

Edited by - banjoak on 07/03/2023 14:09:23

Alex Z - Posted - 07/03/2023:  15:33:34

When I was doing shows with jazz style rhythm banjo, 9th is as far as I'd go -- leave the fancy stuff to the piano.

7ths and 9ths are usually enough to capture the flavor of the harmony.  Especially if those notes are the highest in the chord form.

But it is good to know how to make any chord, and even better to know how to get the sound of that chord on only 4 strings.  Some notes, just have to leave them out.

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/03/2023:  15:34:13

that is why I suggested he clarify the tuning--for a question like that --one tuning could be enough work load --since he needs to get going chord building on his own evidently--I ask no one to agree----

I have spent my life in G tuning  but those tunings that are stacked 5ths seem have an advantage for the high -added notes such as ninths--13ths etc. seems he is looking for them

Edited by - Tractor1 on 07/03/2023 15:40:53

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 07/03/2023:  15:48:30

Here they are spelled for any instrument.

756 Chords

 

banjola1 - Posted - 07/03/2023:  16:09:14

I've tried for years to come up with a chart or charts that would somehow be "all encompassing" and solve every instance of applied chord theory but In the end, all I came up with were tedious examples that no one would even want to try to learn much less understand. I'm not saying that charts are completely useless. I've written two books filled with them. But in learning chords, it's best to use chord theory applied to an actual melody rather than trying to read and somehow adapt involved charts. It helps to know a little basic theory a some keyboard knowledge so you can adapt playable chords to the five five-string neck. For example, extensions like 9th, 11ths, and 13ths can be reduced to the simple "upper-partial" triads of an extended chord. They are easy to use and fun.

I recently posted an arrangement of Jazz Blues in the key of G that demonstrates the use of these triads. It starts with simple chords like in "Foggy Mountain Special" progressing to a jazz style arrangement.

patcloud.com/jazz-banjo-blues/

Just email me and I'll send you a printable copy - no scraping!

All the best,

Pat-

pat3@patcloud.com

RB3 - Posted - 07/04/2023:  08:39:40

Below is a photo of a device I made years ago.  I use it to figure out the notes in just about any of the chords that I'm likely to encounter.

In the center of the smallest round disk, I show the notes that comprise 10 different "C" chords forms.  If you line up the notes radially for any of those "C" chord forms by rotating the round disks, you will then have the notes that comprise the same chord form for all of the other 11 notes in the chromatic scale.  In the photo, I have the notes for a Cmin7 lined up radially (C-Eb-G-Bb).  Then, if I wanted to know the notes that comprise an Emin7 chord,  I go around to the E note on the smallest disk, and the notes in that chord are displayed radially (E-G-B-D). 

Chords

 

Alex Z - Posted - 07/04/2023:  10:59:58

Very clever.   It's like the linear scale has been transformed into four dimensions.  

This compact device can show every combination of 4-note chords for the 12-tone scale -- 12 x 11 x 10 x 9 = 11,880 chords!

And, it is simple to understand and use.

Edited by - Alex Z on 07/04/2023 11:02:29

banjola1 - Posted - 07/04/2023:  11:00:39

One of the best arguments for learning to name the notes on your banjo is that you can eventually use your own banjo neck to translate and spell the notes of any chord form and forgo all the charts and devices. You visualize the chord form and use the banjo neck as an immediate note naming guide.

 For instance, for an Em7 chord you can first visualize the open G tuning of the banjo (D-G-B-D). Fretting the E note at the 2nd fret on the 4th string  gives you an Em7 chord (E-G-B-D) in its root position. That standard position can be moved up and down the neck to identify all your basic root position minor seventh chords. You only have to learn the names of the notes up and down the 4th string.

If you move that same Em7 open-string form up to the 4th string 10th fret, you have a Cm7 chord. If you know the notes on your banjo, you can name the notes of this form by visualizing it on the fret board. No need of any chart or device. (C-Eb-G-Bb)

A chord form is identified first by its visual shape, then its notes and finally its sound. It honestly isn't all that difficult. You see the form, play the sound and spell the notes as you listen. Visualizing the notes and naming them on the fret board is fun and important. You could get an easy handle on it in just 3-4 weeks. It's good practice.

By learning all the notes on your 4th string you can immediately identify the notes on the 1st string because the 4th and 1st string are octaves fretted at the same fret. So half your task of learning your notes is already accomplished.

Having a chart can give you all the notes of a six-note extended piano chord but it doesn't tell you what notes to leave out to keep the gist or sonority of a the chord to make it actually useful in an chord solo arrangement.

That is another interesting thread, to be sure.

Happy 4th of July!

Pat-

patcloud.com

Edited by - banjola1 on 07/04/2023 11:09:23

Alex Z - Posted - 07/04/2023:  11:13:15

OK.  Quick.  The notes for the Ab diminished 7th chord.

Sure, if you know that, you can eventually find it on the fingerboard.  Only then does it become moveable -- which is the easy part.  Getting the first chord, the one to be moved, is what the circular chart is for.

The other type of chart -- the fret board chart -- gets you from the circular chart to the position on the neck.  That's where only one diagram is needed if you know the names of the scale notes and the tuning of each string, and then it becomes moveable.

Edited by - Alex Z on 07/04/2023 11:24:34

Texasbanjo - Posted - 07/04/2023:  11:17:35

When I was first learning many years ago, I made a drawing of a banjo neck and put in the notes of each string from open to 22. At first that was very intimidating, but as I learned more about chords and intervals, it began to make sense.



I was also learning the three basic major chord shapes and then the 7th and minor chords.

Then I learned to go up and down the neck making those basic shapes. From then on, if I needed an unusual chord, I'd first try to figure it out myself and if not, then I'd go looking for a chart.



I think the above helped me more in learning to play and play with others than all the chord charts could have. Don't know if that method would work for others or not, but it has served me well for nearly 30 years now.

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 07/04/2023 11:18:11

banjola1 - Posted - 07/04/2023:  12:10:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

OK.  Quick.  The notes for the Ab diminished 7th chord.

Sure, if you know that, you can eventually find it on the fingerboard.  Only then does it become moveable -- which is the easy part.  Getting the first chord, the one to be moved, is what the circular chart is for.

The other type of chart -- the fret board chart -- gets you from the circular chart to the position on the neck.  That's where only one diagram is needed if you know the names of the scale notes and the tuning of each string, and then it becomes moveable.

---

Hi Alex,

I see what you're saying.

If you already know how to make a basic G7 chord form from the 4th string (G-B-D-F) then move it up 1 fret to an Ab7 chord.

Then lower the all the notes in Ab7 by one fret and keep the root.

Ab7 = Ab-C-Eb-Gb

Abdim7 = Ab-B-D-F

Or

Start again with a basic G7 root chord and raise the G note to Ab.

I'm really more interested in how and why they're used.

I know they provide great tension in old silent movies. You just don't know what's going to happen next.

patcloud.com

Edited by - banjola1 on 07/04/2023 12:15:37

Alex Z - Posted - 07/04/2023:  12:38:53

A point to keep in mind is, How can a person new to notes, scale intervals, and chords start learning a method for making various chords up and down the fretboard?  There could be several ways that work for learning from scratch.  Myself, I don't know, as I knew the theory stuff before starting on a fretted instrument.

If one has some background in scales and intervals, learning chords positions on the fretboard is much easier.  Maybe that's it -- first learn notes, then a scale, then apply the scale to each tuned string -- and then you're ready to start putting moveable chord positions together, perhaps with the help of some charts to make the task easier.  

I think in the end, we get to the same place.  The goal is to know (1) why the chord forms are the way they are, (2) where the functioning root is, and (3) a mental framework for moving the chord form up and down the fingerboard according to the root name -- all as Mr. banjola1 explained for the e minor 7.   What step 0 is, however, and how to accomplish step 0, might be the issue that charts help with .

Edited by - Alex Z on 07/04/2023 12:40:06

banjola1 - Posted - 07/04/2023:  13:10:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

A point to keep in mind is, How can a person new to notes, scale intervals, and chords start learning a method for making various chords up and down the fretboard? 

Maybe that's it -- first learn notes, then a scale, then apply the scale to each tuned string -- and then you're ready to start putting moveable chord positions together, perhaps with the help of some charts to make the task easier.  

I think in the end, we get to the same place.

---

I absolutely agree. A person will be "forever new to notes" unless they learn where they are on their chosen instrument. It should be one of the very first things a banjo player learns. I certainly didn't. I was an ear musician for the first year. I couldn't read tablature to save my life. In jam sessions I noticed that all the Earl Scruggs songs were culled from simple basic chords. I had this friend in high school who played piano. He sight-read some melodies from a book called "1000 Fiddle Tunes" into my "cassette" recorder (yeah I'm that old) and then I started to see how music sounded as I looked at it in standard notation. So After about two years, I knew how the notes looked in music and I found them on my cheap Sears banjo. I started to write my own scales and versions of songs. i still have that small music book in storage somewhere. I also bought two basic high school music theory books and started to identify how they made chords and transferred them to the neck. So yeah, I was new to notes. And Pete Seeger's "red"  banjo book was no help.

This is a banjo forum. Am I wrong in assuming that banjo players are still averse to learning simple music stuff like "their notes" when it is standard learning of most all other instruments? I think even Ocarina players are introduced to "those notes" in standard notation or are they also chained at the ankle by tablature? (Now where's my Ocarina tab?)

patcloud.com

Edited by - banjola1 on 07/04/2023 13:19:00

Alex Z - Posted - 07/04/2023:  14:01:20

The banjo is a folk instrument, maybe the folkiest of the folk instruments that we have in the USA, except maybe the mountain dulcimer.  How to play the banjo historically has been embedded in how others play (but for the classical/ragtime picking that was adopted).  It's all right there, in the playing of Mr. Scruggs, Mr. Keith, Mr. Reno, etc.

In the folk traditions, you don't play a folk instrument from long-written music, rather from learning and copying those who are already playing -- then expanding.

And to play well in these folk-derived styles you don't need to know much theory, only "how the heck did you do that?"  And you don't need to write anything down, although that makes memorizing more efficient.

There are not 600 years of developed methods of learning like for the violin or piano.

So I think that most (most all, not every single picker) players can get pretty far along in their playing, and in their playing goals and satisfaction, without delving into much theory.  Yet at some point they may want to expand into other music categories, whether pop standards, show tunes, jazz standards, dixieland, free improvisation, etc.  And that's where the need for organized theory and scale and harmonic building blocks comes in.

Chord charts fit in there somewhere at this time, yet I think a player needs some musical background information to make them efficiently usable in practice.

banjola1 - Posted - 07/04/2023:  14:24:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

 

So I think that most (most all, not every single picker) players can get pretty far along in their playing, and in their playing goals and satisfaction, without delving into much theory.  Yet at some point they may want to expand into other music categories, whether pop standards, show tunes, jazz standards, dixieland, free improvisation, etc.  And that's where the need for organized theory and scale and harmonic building blocks comes in.

---

There's a world of music out there and banjo is just another noise maker. And people will play any way they like. There's no need to expand and certainly no real need to change. Stay right where you are and long as you're having fun and you feel good playing, wonderful.

Most of my iTunes library is not banjo music. My excursions into other types of music have only enhanced me. I'm currently getting a kick playing to Steeley Dan recordings.  And when in a great while when I do listen to the great Douglas Dillard or Eddie Adcock or Uncle Dave Macon, I am able to appreciate them much more.

Like all things in life, after having steak for awhile, beans, beans taste just fine.

Today, I think I'll go listen to Glenn Gould or Gabriela Montero. I'm sure being the great musicians they are, they would probably love and accept the banjo.

Pat-

Edited by - banjola1 on 07/04/2023 14:30:39

JLouis Thiry - Posted - 07/04/2023:  16:22:24

This old Lee Baldwin flyer was very helpful to me in understanding how to form chords. It concerns the CGBD-tuned plectrum banjo and is easily adaptable for DGBD-tuned five-string once you understand how it works. The principle is pretty much the same as explained by Pat and can help to learn all the root of chord on each string.  I recreated this flyer with Adobe Illustrator, my copy being badly damaged, for readability so there may be one mistake or two.

Instant Banjo Chord Finder