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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Classifieds / Swap Shop - Spammers and Scammers


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/388653

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/08/2023:  14:53:02


The Classifieds / Swap Shop Rules don't seem to have any reference as to "when" a poster can start using this forum to either post, or respond to ads on BHO.

This seems to open a hole for spammers and scammers.

For new users, many websites have a "minimum" number of posts requirement, moderate the minimum number of posts initially before making them visible on any forum, or do both.

During that "probationary" time period, "advanced" functions are not available. Some are not visible, until the "trust level" of a poster is determined.

Nothing would be 100% effective, but with the increase in incidents, it would probably be more efficient and effective to stop the activity up front, instead of after the fact.

TLG - Posted - 02/08/2023:  15:32:35


I agree Jim, something needs to be done.
I also think there should be a max number you can post for sale. Right now ,the for sale page is flooded with howieblues stuff !!!!

rubicon - Posted - 02/08/2023:  15:45:05


I agree the classifieds are full of all his inventory don't look at any multi listings like that get your own web page for god's sake defeats the purpose of the classifieds

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/08/2023:  16:00:25


quote:

Originally posted by rubicon

I agree the classifieds are full of all his inventory don't look at any multi listings like that get your own web page for god's sake defeats the purpose of the classifieds






That's probably its own thread topic...

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/08/2023:  16:28:51


The classified advanced search is pretty good if you know what you want. I use the “date posted” priority setting to just see recent stuff. Seems to me the ads are there to sell stuff. So I have no problem with sellers who are not businesses having multiple ads. Howie is a retired guy who has a lot of banjos. IMO he should not have to sell one before advertising another. 


Edited by - Bill Rogers on 02/08/2023 16:39:19

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/08/2023:  16:52:41


quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

"....For new users, many websites have a "minimum" number of posts requirement, moderate the minimum number of posts initially before making them visible on any forum, or do both....."

___________________________________

Rogers replies:

Spammers would know all they had to do is post the requisite number of non sequitur posts before they can spam away. With the latest scam approach, there's no way to know a scammer/spammer before their first fraud post, unlike someone from a foreign domain with no plausible banjo connection  






 

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/08/2023:  17:03:16


quote:

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

"....For new users, many websites have a "minimum" number of posts requirement, moderate the minimum number of posts initially before making them visible on any forum, or do both....."

___________________________________

Rogers replies:

Spammers would know all they had to do is post the requisite number of non sequitur posts before they can spam away. With the latest scam approach, there's no way to know a scammer/spammer before their first fraud post, unlike someone from a foreign domain with no plausible banjo connection  






 






I think many spammers/scammers would likely not do the work required (minimum posts/moderated posts would need to be set high enough...but not extremely high).



A series of non-sequitur posts would be one indicator to monitor.



Nothing will eliminate the problem, but making it harder for them is a realistic goal.



 

Bill H - Posted - 02/09/2023:  02:44:44


I don't believe that posting multiple banjos for sale makes someone a scammer. Howie Blues offers some interesting banjos. Many dealers post multiple banjos for sale. I got a great deal on a banjo and received great service from the Banjo Warehouse. They post a ton of banjos. I don't think that placing those who make a business out of buying and selling musical instruments into the scammer category is fair.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/09/2023:  04:57:55


I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.

If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.

Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.

In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.

mirwin - Posted - 02/09/2023:  06:30:49


Wanting to pay with a bank/cashier's check is not really a problem. Simply call the bank who issued the check and verify it if there's a question.  It's really no different than a personal check. And always wait for the check to clear before sending the item.



However, wanting to send a check of any kind for more than the purchase price and asking for the overage to be sent back is a major red flag.



And always call the buyer before completing any deal.  If you're in too big a rush to sell, you're more likely to have a problem.



Common sense in dealing with buyers or sellers is always the best approach.


Edited by - mirwin on 02/09/2023 06:44:03

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  07:56:40


quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.



If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.



Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.



In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.






A three post minimum would be too low...



As mentioned, there is nothing that is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean more can't be done on the BHO side.



 



 

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/09/2023:  08:11:35


quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.



If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.



Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.



In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.






A three post minimum would be too low...



As mentioned, there is nothing that is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean more can't be done on the BHO side.



 



 






Any changes made to the way we handle classified ads will have to come from Eric.  We mods do not have the authority to make those type of changes. 

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  08:21:32


quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.



If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.



Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.



In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.






A three post minimum would be too low...



As mentioned, there is nothing that is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean more can't be done on the BHO side.



 



 






Any changes made to the way we handle classified ads will have to come from Eric.  We mods do not have the authority to make those type of changes. 






I think he checks this forum, as well as the Web Site Problems & Questions forum.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/09/2023:  11:15:24


quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.



If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.



Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.



In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.






A three post minimum would be too low...



As mentioned, there is nothing that is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean more can't be done on the BHO side.



 



 






Any changes made to the way we handle classified ads will have to come from Eric.  We mods do not have the authority to make those type of changes. 






I think he checks this forum, as well as the Web Site Problems & Questions forum.






He does and it's still his decision only. 

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  11:18:51


quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I've seen spammers post 3 posts just in case that's what's necessary and then dive into the classifieds and start their scamming. It won't stop or even slow them down. It only takes a minute or two to make a post.



If someone could figure out a way to stop spammers, they could probably sell their idea/product and get rich.... until the scammers figured a way to get around it.



Best idea: be careful of new members or anyone that asks certain questions like "is this item still available" or "kindly reply" or "send the banjo to my father in..." or anyone that wants to send a bank/cashier's check.



In other words: Caveat Emptor or Caveat Venditor.






A three post minimum would be too low...



As mentioned, there is nothing that is 100% effective, but that doesn't mean more can't be done on the BHO side.



 



 






Any changes made to the way we handle classified ads will have to come from Eric.  We mods do not have the authority to make those type of changes. 






I think he checks this forum, as well as the Web Site Problems & Questions forum.






He does and it's still his decision only. 






That's why I posted in this forum, and didn't direct it to a moderator.



 

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/09/2023:  12:08:10


If you create more work for the mods, there’s the risk of losing them. Too many members seem to assume mods work the kind of hours a paid worker does. we don’t.

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  12:38:08


quote:

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

If you create more work for the mods, there’s the risk of losing them. Too many members seem to assume mods work the kind of hours a paid worker does. we don’t.






Depending on how it was implemented, it may, or may not be more work for the mods.



If it were a straight "n number of posts" before any new member can access that forum to post or reply to ads...probably less work...if "n number of posts" were high enough to discourage scammers.



Many want to hit as quick as possible...for example, if they had to have 10 posts before they could do anything in the classifieds or swap shop, that could be enough of a deterrent.



If you included moderating the first 10 posts, it would be more work for the mods...which raises the question...are there enough mods for the site traffic in 2023.



Lynn has left, Robert hasn't logged in since 2019, BanjoMikey and Peter don't seem to be active mods...and that was the crew 10 years ago...when there was less traffic.



So out of 6 mods back then, there are now 2 left...that's a 66% reduction from 10 years ago.



That is another issue entirely.



 



 



 



 



 



 



 

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 02/09/2023:  12:58:00


Subverting hackers and fraudsters that have programming skills and software tools is akin to trying to sue the internet to remove content. One can simply create a script to post once per week or 1000 times a second. Facebook has a huge income and their marketplace is still mostly scammers. How can one expect 2 mods and a single content owner to defeat what 5000 facebook employees cant? They are smarter than given them credit for and organized.

As for mods, working for free....on a site that makes money....I am amazed such ppl exist today. Must really love jos

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  13:07:29


quote:

Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

Subverting hackers and fraudsters that have programming skills and software tools is akin to trying to sue the internet to remove content. One can simply create a script to post once per week or 1000 times a second.






Lots of ways to "subvert" hackers and fraudsters...but there is no 100% solution.



Comparing Facebook to BHO is apples and avocados.



It depends on what a site owner wants to invest in time, money, and tools.



Currently, it seems to be wide open to scammers and spammers on BHO.



 


Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 02/09/2023 13:08:57

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 02/09/2023:  15:14:10


Not wide open, simply report a listing to a mod. Then they take care of it. Simple and effective.

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  16:28:00


quote:

Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

Not wide open, simply report a listing to a mod. Then they take care of it. Simple and effective.






Wide open enough...



Reporting it to a mod means they're already here, and replying to or posting ads.



Nothing at the "front door" to stop them.



Mods aren't online 24 x 7, so there will be delays in addressing it.



Not a great process.



 



 


Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 02/09/2023 16:44:05

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/09/2023:  17:22:23


quote:

Originally posted by rubicon

I agree the classifieds are full of all his inventory don't look at any multi listings like that get your own web page for god's sake defeats the purpose of the classifieds






BHO makes 2% of the sale on an item, or $75...whichever is less.



So, there is a financial incentive to not force those ads to a "go to my website at..." system for multiple items.



As mentioned, that's a thread on its own.



 


Edited by - OldNavyGuy on 02/09/2023 17:31:29

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