Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/21/2023:  14:03:47

I don't usually shill or plug the stuff I sell. In fact, I tend to not mention it at all as it seems someone else usually will. But... Strings for classic era banjos are a problem.

All the current packaged offerings are too thick and were based on the modern "old time" banjoists trying to simulate wire string tensions. For years I have been recommending that people buy individual strings direct from Labella in the period documented sizes, yet I still get emails asking if I sell strings. I have also been very outspoken against "nylgut", a major offender of the thick strings and don't get me started about the unwound forth.

The offerings under the "Nylgut" brand have been very confusing. With all the different sizes and compounds (the "red" strings are supposed to sound or feel like wire) it is hard to figure out what you are getting.

Well, Mimmo at Aquila reached out to me and after a few sample sets to test we have finalized a set based on sizes provided by S. S. Stewart in 1892. I've been playing with them since October and even took the banjo with them to the last ABF rally where all who played on them liked them.

I posted about the first batch I got in on the Historic Banjo site on Facebook and they sold out in two days. I'm fully restocked now and have added Aquila 4ths.

Check out my website for a little more info and how to get them.

I've got sets for sell at $10 a set. Labella true 17s (not the 19s they sell now) for $9 a set.

These are the only strings to use on classic era banjos.

banjothimble.com/shop/classic-...ings.html

davidppp - Posted - 01/21/2023:  15:29:19

Having met Mimmo Peruffo in person and corresponded a bit about new string formulations, I know he is sincere in his fanaticism to get things right. And he knows that "right" in music is always a matter of opinion. My understanding is that, with the huge success he has had with ukuleles, he is in a position to offer a great variety and to develop even more. Thank you Joel for pursuing this. I just ordered a set to try on my favorite Stewart, eager to see how they play under my fingers and hear what sound comes out. Admittedly, there is a chaotic aspect to how Aquila does business -- or, rather, it is quintessential Italian.

dbrooks - Posted - 01/21/2023:  15:56:48

This is good news, in my opinion. I have enjoyed using Nygut strings on my Bay State banjos and my fret less banjos. I'll be trying this new formulation on my Stewart Thoroughbred. 



David

Edited by - dbrooks on 01/21/2023 15:57:08

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/21/2023:  17:00:04

Hi David, to be clear, this is the same standard compound that they call "medium tension". The only difference are the sizes and that I insisted on a wound 4th.

He tried to talk me out of the wound 4th and after I explained why it was important he wanted me to use a steel wire on floss string, which would be much too hard for antique frets.

He did send me a few different 4ths to try and the ones I choose are very nice-- bright with all the bass needed for a "bass solo" march trio.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/21/2023:  17:03:52

quote:

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Originally posted by davidppp

Having met Mimmo Peruffo in person and corresponded a bit about new string formulations, I know he is sincere in his fanaticism to get things right. And he knows that "right" in music is always a matter of opinion. My understanding is that, with the huge success he has had with ukuleles, he is in a position to offer a great variety and to develop even more. Thank you Joel for pursuing this. I just ordered a set to try on my favorite Stewart, eager to see how they play under my fingers and hear what sound comes out. Admittedly, there is a chaotic aspect to how Aquila does business -- or, rather, it is quintessential Italian.

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My dealings with Mimmo have been very positive.  I do not want to speak for him, but it seems that the very thick sizes were provided to him by people who were not versed in the minutiae of historical banjo string sizes. 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/21/2023:  18:24:58

I am glad to hear that things have been straightening out in the Nylgut world and that someone with real knowledge has been participating, and perhaps now one can order a set and know just what he is getting. I do have one question, though. The Nylguts I've used have had some intonation issues (i can handle the breakage) and wonder if these newer versions have those same problems.

If you don't wish to get into the unwound fourth, I will. This is, was, and always will be a stupid idea. Instruments have been using overwrapped strings for centuries because to gain the correct tension on a short string, one would need to make the string so thick it would sound like a steel rod, perhaps similar to the sound of a girder falling from the Empire state building and hitting the ground. The only way to add the mass needed for proper tension is to add weigh with a flexible winding, or to add more length, which in most cases is impossible(for example, a Concert grand piano with a plain bottom string would have to be approx. 26 feet long to achieve the needed mass for the bottom string.)

If Mike Halloran reads this thread, perhaps he, too, will Emphasize the horrid tone of an unwound fourth.

I probably won't be ordering, unless my left hand improves more after having a stroke. Right now, I have some trouble picking my nose, let alone picking a banjo. I will, however, recommend your site to others.

banjopickingman - Posted - 01/25/2023:  22:09:22

Thanks for sharing this news. I had been wondering about these since they were discussed on BHO last year. They sound very good on the video on the Aquila site. I look forward to trying them someday.

Personally, I really like the red set including the unwound 4th and don't feel that they are similar to metal strings at all. Not historically accurate perhaps but great sound and feel in my opinion.

Bart Veerman - Posted - 01/25/2023:  22:38:44

Nice to hear! A couple of questions though:

• can these string be completely tensioned to proper pitch all at once or do you still have to spread the tensioning out over several days to prevent breakage?


• are the string gauges actually printed/indicated on the package for a change or are they still a secret and we have to keep on guessing at them as per usual?

spoonfed - Posted - 01/26/2023:  05:58:51

I am wondering about availability in Europe (UK) the Van Eps sets sound of interest, there is a guy who attends the UK rallies and he owns several VE banjos and assorted ephemera including, according to him Van Eps "meal ticket " he uses fishing line I think.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/26/2023:  06:22:35

Hi Bart Veerman , as stated on my website, I am only offering two sets of strings.

Labella rectified nylon: .017, .019, .023, .024, silver plated copper over nylon floss.

The individual labella string envelops are marked with the sizes.

Aquila "Nylgut" polyester: .018, .022, .028, .024 silver plated copper over rayon floss.

Those sizes are not on the package but I'd be happy to write them on with a pencil for anyone requesting.

Or, if you prefer, the Nylgut set is based on sizes published by S. S. Stewart in 1892 in English Wire Gauge and is found here:

archive.org/details/Observatio.../mode/2up

I currently have them on three banjos, all of which were originally built for gut or silk strings. I put them on and tuned them up one full step above standard pitch gCGBD (remember, this project is based around classic era banjos) then let them sit overnight. This seems to have taken most of the "stretch" out of them but they still required touch up over the next few days. I do this with nylon strings too.

Aquila (as well as many youtube videos) recommends some stretching technique, but I don't. I believe that this can cause uneven stretching and intonation issues (a false string).

I can't speak for modern banjos built for wire strings. Antique tailpieces that have been strung with wire will often show some kind of damage or jagged edges which will cut the nylgut strings and need to be cleaned up.

They are fragile, but in my experience I have not had a problem.

These strings are not for everyone. There is no refuting that many "old time" banjoists can't play actual old banjos set up contemporary to the banjo's era. They have a difficult time with them so they want thick higher tension for "modern playability". Perhaps they are not willing to approach them as specific instruments and would rather just pretend to play historic instruments while getting as close to wire tensions as possible. The influence of 1960s-1970s scoop style festival playing is pretty strong.

Which is just fine.

That said, "old time" can be played on classic era instruments set up correctly and sounds really good.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/26/2023:  06:23:42

quote:

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Originally posted by spoonfed

I am wondering about availability in Europe (UK) the Van Eps sets sound of interest, there is a guy who attends the UK rallies and he owns several VE banjos and assorted ephemera including, according to him Van Eps "meal ticket " he uses fishing line I think.

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That guy is Pat Doyle.  I'll ship anywhere. 

spoonfed - Posted - 01/26/2023:  06:38:49

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

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Originally posted by spoonfed

I am wondering about availability in Europe (UK) the Van Eps sets sound of interest, there is a guy who attends the UK rallies and he owns several VE banjos and assorted ephemera including, according to him Van Eps "meal ticket " he uses fishing line I think.

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That guy is Pat Doyle.  I'll ship anywhere. 

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It sure is Pat, I was kind of enquiring as to whether these strings are to be made available to UK dealers and bought in the usual fashion here or only available from the US.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/26/2023:  06:53:19

quote:

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Originally posted by spoonfed

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

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Originally posted by spoonfed

I am wondering about availability in Europe (UK) the Van Eps sets sound of interest, there is a guy who attends the UK rallies and he owns several VE banjos and assorted ephemera including, according to him Van Eps "meal ticket " he uses fishing line I think.

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That guy is Pat Doyle.  I'll ship anywhere. 

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It sure is Pat, I was kind of enquiring as to whether these strings are to be made available to UK dealers and bought in the usual fashion here or only available from the US.

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I suppose UK dealers can call Aquila or Labella and buy what they want.

I am okay with low volume product movement and the chance of being stuck with several lifetimes worth of strings.