6stringedRamble - Posted - 01/18/2023:  04:07:10

I took an online course on country songs, and learn that songs typically have a common form for particular genre.



What are the common song structures for folk and ballads?

Edited by - 6stringedRamble on 01/18/2023 04:07:35

Alvin Conder - Posted - 01/18/2023:  04:41:34

Usually somebody does something and then dies.

KCJones - Posted - 01/18/2023:  06:22:27

When you say folk songs, you really need to be specific to what culture you're talking about. American Folk Music is really a large umbrella. Folk music from Lousiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Tenesee, or Maryland, for example, are all going to have different influences and distinct forms.

But, in general, I'd say this. Verse-Chorus-Verse type songs is the obvious one. Call and Response is fairly common. 12 bar blues is the basis for much of it. There's also a form that I don't know the name of, but it involves a verse with a first line, then a second line that is repeated 3 times, then a final line which is usually the same for every verse. (e.g. lyrics in Long Journey Home). A lot of folk songs will tell a story, with no repeating verses just a new set of lyrics for every verse, I've heard this referred to as "through composed" form.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/18/2023:  06:49:42

Structure at what level of detail? At a very coarse level, the two most common structures are Verse-Verse-Verse...etc. (e.g., "Little Maggie", "Pretty Polly", and most 12-bar blues) and Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus...etc. At a finer level we can look at the relationship among the lines (whether there's lyrical or musical repetition, whether any of the lines serve as a refrain, etc.), as KCJones does above. He sketches out a few of the common finer structures, but there are more, too. (I mean, for 12-bar blues alone, right off the top of my head I can think of three or four ways that verses might be constructed.)

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 01/18/2023 06:51:15

banjered - Posted - 01/18/2023:  07:10:08

Folk songs are much more variable in structure than other genres of music. They can even vary from verse to verse in terms of adding or dropping beats ( drives fiddle players nuts! ). Adapting folk songs to CH banjo, I find I frequently need to "violate" the usual guitar notations how the song is presented in order to make it sound OK for CH. In other words with some songs I will choose a CH version that sounds better than a strictly musically "correct" version. The latest song I've learned and varied it up is "Pancho & Lefty (Is that folk or CWestern?)" But be careful when doing this, the banjo police are everywhere and you could get arrested for impersonating a musician. banjered

RB3 - Posted - 01/18/2023:  07:20:36

I would suggest that you look at some of the music theory web sites on the Internet. Some of them have sections that explain how music is commonly structured.

Old Hickory - Posted - 01/18/2023:  09:19:49

Oh, here, LMGTFY.

AAA Strophic Song Structure

General Characteristics of Folk Music

Fathand - Posted - 01/19/2023:  04:40:52

The nature of folk songs is they usually started out as simple arrangements and evolved over years/decades.

Find a book with the type of folk songs you like and learn a bunch of them and you will get the idea.

Go to mixed interest or folk jams and learn more.

Paul R - Posted - 01/20/2023:  08:32:36

There's also the debate as to what constitutes "folk" music. When the contemporary "folk festivals" arose (Newport, Mariposa, Philadelphia, for example), they featured traditional performers plus the new breed of songwriting performers (whom we now call "singer-songwriters"). Are the songwriters really "folk" musicians? The line has become blurred between songwriters who tend to write from a "folk" standpoint and more commercially oriented writers, imho. Here's one point of view: youtube.com/watch?v=dTKfZo8oHi8 It gets quite absurd when the Ottawa Bluesfest's headliners are acts like Sting, Kiss. Blue Rodeo, Arcade Fire.Alice Cooper, Iron Maiden, and Shania Twain. Blues?

carlb - Posted - 01/20/2023:  09:14:33

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul R

Are the songwriters really "folk" musicians?

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If their songs are still sung 100 years from now, then yes. Maybe even less time, e.g. Woody Guthrie.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 01/20/2023:  09:57:30

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul R

There's also the debate as to what constitutes "folk" music. When the contemporary "folk festivals" arose (Newport, Mariposa, Philadelphia, for example), they featured traditional performers plus the new breed of songwriting performers (whom we now call "singer-songwriters"). Are the songwriters really "folk" musicians? The line has become blurred between songwriters who tend to write from a "folk" standpoint and more commercially oriented writers, imho. Here's one point of view: youtube.com/watch?v=dTKfZo8oHi8 It gets quite absurd when the Ottawa Bluesfest's headliners are acts like Sting, Kiss. Blue Rodeo, Arcade Fire.Alice Cooper, Iron Maiden, and Shania Twain. Blues?

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That's a great--and complex--topic for another discussion!

mike gregory - Posted - 01/20/2023:  11:21:54

Line attributed to Louis Armstrong, when asked his opinion of folk music, during "Great Folk Music Revival" of the Sixties:

"All music is folk music. Ain't never heard no horse singing a song!"

And a line from a novel by Paul Gallico, when some traveler on a bus asks a man who is carrying a small hurdy-gurdy if he can play a COUNTRY song on it.
"Every song comes from SOME country!"

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/21/2023:  18:48:56

quote:

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Originally posted by mike gregory

Line attributed to Louis Armstrong, when asked his opinion of folk music, during "Great Folk Music Revival" of the Sixties:



"All music is folk music. Ain't never heard no horse singing a song!"



And a line from a novel by Paul Gallico, when some traveler on a bus asks a man who is carrying a small hurdy-gurdy if he can play a COUNTRY song on it.

"Every song comes from SOME country!"

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To a horse, neigh, neigh, neigh might be singing.  If a person composes a ballad while on a ship or in an airplane or space capsule, is that song really from a country? 

All I'll say about folk song structures is that I don't think I've ever heard one in sonata-allegro form.

Rusty - Posted - 01/22/2023:  17:13:55

Are you wanting to write a folk song, or is this out of curiosity?
As a point of interest, I recommend reading "The Pete Seeger Reader", excellent overview of the folk music scene starting with 1938 moving forward to today.
Excellent read.

wrench13 - Posted - 01/23/2023:  05:35:15

Structure of a genre' is a big bucket. Chord structure - can mean the pattern of the chords and melody, so it might be a AA BB song, meaning the first half of the tune, the A part, is repeated twice, followed by the second half, the B part, repeated twice and then start over again from the top. Most fiddle tunes follow that structure. There is also AABA, again using A and B parts to describe the structure. There are always variations on this, some have a 3rd part, so AABBCC, Ragtime Annie comes to mind.

Structure can also mean the actual chord progression, which is harder to nail down. Most folk songs, ie with words, are comprised of 3 chords in a myriad of patterns, 1, 4 and 5 ( in G, the chords G, C and D). That pattern could be the same for verse and chorus, or it may vary a little or a lot. Other chords in that sample key of G might be included, so Em, B are very common in key of G songs.

And then there are the 'modal' songs that use only 2 chords ( and some say really only 1 chord) . Not to say that non-modal songs must have 3 chords, a good many bluegrass, old time and country songs have 2 chords and are really good songs.

Not even touching on melodic structure, you can see this 'structure' bucket has to be quite large to fit all the variations within the genre'. The Folk denomination is in essence very simple, compared to other styles, but that is a part of its beauty and charm. Its like the Blues. "OK buddy, you got 3 chords, lets see what you can do with them".

Above is all IMHO.