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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Baldwin CS2692G


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/364722

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/06/2020:  17:50:35


I now own Baldwin Style C # CS2692G.



I have read all the posts on this archived topic discussion banjohangout.org/archive/279227



I have compared the pictures and without any doubt I have this same instrument. It appears to be the same configuration as it was in 2014 at the time of the discussion.



It has all chrome plated metal parts with the exception of the tuners. The photos in the earlier thread look to show the banjo as being chrome plated.



My question to those in the know: Was the chrome plating done at the factory or not? I see no reference to the plating discussed in the afore mentioned topic.



Thanks for any help you may provide.

woodchips - Posted - 06/07/2020:  05:14:17


Most likely they only put the chrome parts on at the factory. Putting chrome on is a very specific skill and takes a lot of equipment and space to do. They would have a company that did their plating of the parts and send them to the manufacturer to build it.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  05:24:16


I guess my question should read: Was chrome plating offered as a factory option on this model banjo?

R Buck - Posted - 06/07/2020:  05:41:40


Chrome plating was more prevalent in 60's and 70's then it became less so due to environmental concerns, if I remember correctly. Chrome was also acknowledged with lending a bit more mellow sound than nickel.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  05:46:41


Others guess, based on limited info, that serial no. CS2692G likely falls sometime around 1970.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  05:47:28


Trying to establish originality.

mvolcjak - Posted - 06/07/2020:  08:18:56


All Baldwin banjos are either gold (Style D) or nickle (Style B & C) plated. Are you sure it is not nickle?

Here is a section of a BHO post by Myron Koenig. Myron is the person responsible for the Style C. Here he is talking about one of his personal banjos:

"Baldwin Style "C"
My only Arkansas made banjo. All "C"s were made in Arkansas
Serial # CS 2218-G ( G is for gear not gold as many have implied)
16-1 gear ratio neck adjustment rod in heel, nine ply rim, ebony fingerboard with pearl inlay, ebony peg head overlay with Baldwin banner inlaid in pearl, walnut neck and resonator, double rod, nickel plated."

So if yours is chrome plated, it is something that is not original.

Take it Easy ... MarK

RB3 - Posted - 06/07/2020:  08:33:34


It's doubtful that Baldwin plated their banjo hardware components in their own factory. I believe they would have had those components plated by one of their vendors that specialized in plating.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  08:44:32


Yes it is chrome as chrome can be.  Certainly assumed based on all available info that the Baldwin C came nickel plated.  Figured an expert might chime in with knowledge of any exceptions.



 


Edited by - asmcsgac on 06/07/2020 08:45:58



 

Brett - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:03:41


Does the sticker in the pot have any alterations or fading letters added or anything? The only ode shaped sound hole flanges I’ve seen that were chrome were import copies of ode. Like shobud and other imports with ode copy flange.
I’d think if it were special ordered chrome, as others are nickel, they might make a mark on the sticker inside. Like “C” for chrome or “custom” or anything like that. I know Vega did that.

mvolcjak - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:08:11


As far I know, Baldwin did not do custom work. They wanted to keep things simple. All banjos, (the short lived mahogany Style B aside), were walnut. Plating was Gold or Nickle. There were only 2 wood rimmed models, the C and D.

Back in the 70's, Roger Sprung did mix them up by swapping necks around. A "D" neck on a C pot, etc. But as far as I know, this was something Roger did, not the factory.

My guess - as nickle is softer - is that it is possible that it wore to the point that it was re-plated with chrome, since chrome is a more durable metal.

Take it Easy ... MarK

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:17:33


quote:

Originally posted by Brett

Does the sticker in the pot have any alterations or fading letters added or anything? The only ode shaped sound hole flanges I’ve seen that were chrome were import copies of ode. Like shobud and other imports with ode copy flange.

I’d think if it were special ordered chrome, as others are nickel, they might make a mark on the sticker inside. Like “C” for chrome or “custom” or anything like that. I know Vega did that.






The impression of a missing paper label is all that can be seen on the inside of resonator.


Edited by - asmcsgac on 06/07/2020 09:20:53

RB3 - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:20:36


A good friend of mine was the marketing product manager for the Baldwin banjo product line. I'll ask him if Baldwin ever produced the "C" model with chrome plated hardware.

mvolcjak - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:23:06


This banjo is from around 1970, so it would have a serial number that is stamped (into the wood) inside the pot. Stickers were used inside the pots around the time that ODE replaced the Baldwin banner on the head stock in the later '70's.

ShoBud and later imports may have had chrome hardware as they did use the Baldwin flange design. Whether they would fit a Baldwin rim is another question.

Assuming these parts would fit a Baldwin rim, I guess the other possibility is that the chrome parts are replacement parts on an original pot and neck?

Take it Easy ... MarK

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:39:02


The serial number is clearly visible inside the rim.

With banjo in hand, I looked at each photo in the 2014 thread and compared the wear markings and other features and was amazed at how the condition today matches the condition back then. Even the strap, bridge, Keith tuners, and nickel vintage schallers remain with the instrument.

eljimb0 - Posted - 06/07/2020:  09:51:42


Having something re-plated sometime in the last 50 years is a good possibility.

mvolcjak - Posted - 06/07/2020:  10:35:38


I have uploaded a photo of a Baldwin tuner that was used during the Baldwin Banner only years. Both of my banjos have this style tuner with the "reeded" tension screws - no slot. I do not know who made them as they are not marked - I guess they could be Schaller tuners. The photo is on my home page in the default album. If your tuners are original, they should look like this picture. Of course the Keith tuners are not factory original.
Take it Easy ... MarK

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  10:50:58


Same tuners.





 

mvolcjak - Posted - 06/07/2020:  11:04:23




Except for the chrome plating, it is a typical Style C. I have never seen these style tuners on anything but Original 1960's Odes or Early Baldwins. You seldom see these tuners for sale, so it is nice you have the originals.  As the original tuners are nickle, one can assume that the rest of the banjo was nickle at one time as well.



Nice Banjo and looks to be in great shape - enjoy it.  The chrome just makes it a little different.  Nothing wrong with that!



Take it Easy .... MarK

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  11:10:47


Was hoping for some rare odd ball limited edition that had not been tampered with.

I have had this apart and reassembled with a really good set-up. I am impressed with the tone and power.

Kind of heartbroken that such an instrument would be altered by being re-plated with chrome.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/07/2020:  11:12:07


Stand by for a new thread on the other banjo that I got with it. Came to me as an ODE Style D. New topic coming shortly.

Darryl Hattenhauer - Posted - 06/07/2020:  13:49:31


Thanks, Gary.

Brett - Posted - 06/07/2020:  14:25:17


Some guys like chrome banjos, some prewar models were chrome I think. Maybe it was style 4s in some years were chrome and walnut???
I think it was Ode, then Baldwin, then Baldwin Ode, then back to Ode on peghead? I had a propeller style D Baldwin, I sold to Curtis McPeake decades ago, I’m just as happy with my replacement 79 style D. I find no special mystique missing between what I guess was about a 66 or 67 style D and my 79 style D. Others claim huge differences, so there you go. Scooter has a top shelf Ode.

dmiller - Posted - 06/07/2020:  15:29:26


Chuck Ogsbury sold Ode to Baldwin in 1966.



Baldwin continued to make the banjos in Boulder for a year or two before moving all production to Arkansas.  Right after buying out Chuck, they switched the peg head banner to Baldwin instead of Ode.  They also stopped making the banjos out of Brazilian Rosewood, and switched to Walnut instead.   Baldwin was known as a piano company (not banjo related) and they quickly realized that most folks looking for a quality banjo didn't recognize the "Baldwin" on the peg head of the banjo as something of quality.  So the  peg head "timeline" of Ode to Baldwin to Baldwin/Ode to Ode goes something like this:



After 1966 - - Ode is gone from the peg head and the word Baldwin replaced it.

A coupla years later - Baldwin sees lack of sales because folks equate Baldwin with pianos and not banjos.

Baldwin then put the ODE back on the peghead, with the Baldwin banner above it.

Mid to late 70's (until the end in 1980) the word ODE only was on the peg head.



If you really want to know the history of this stuff - - - > > check out Myron's 1st hand account of what 

actually happened with Ode and Baldwin.  I go to this thread to see it again like you do re-runs on TV.

Every time I look at it, I see something new.  Myron is "backwardroll" Take a look for yourself. smiley





banjohangout.org/archive/316545





 


Edited by - dmiller on 06/07/2020 15:32:27

RB3 - Posted - 06/07/2020:  20:58:13


I got a response from Myron Koenig, who was the marketing product manager for banjos at Baldwin. He confirmed that all "C" models made by Baldwin had nickel plated hardware.

asmcsgac - Posted - 06/08/2020:  02:59:23


quote:

Originally posted by RB3

I got a response from Myron Koenig, who was the marketing product manager for banjos at Baldwin. He confirmed that all "C" models made by Baldwin had nickel plated hardware.






Roger that.  I was confident that would be the ultimate answer.

stanger - Posted - 06/08/2020:  10:48:35


quote:

Originally posted by asmcsgac

I guess my question should read: Was chrome plating offered as a factory option on this model banjo?






Chrome plating was the standard for some Ode parts.



Chuck Ogsbury was one of very few banjo makers who made his own parts in Ode's early years. The plating was done locally in Boulder. 



As time went by, some parts continued to be made in-house, but others were purchased.  The parts that were purchased and came in with plating most often had nickel instead of chrome plating.



Baldwin made some changes to the Ode model line after they.bought the company, but Baldwin never messed with the Ode's design or its parts much at all.



They consolidated  the banjo line, boiling it down to only 3 different models, and introduced the use of the geared truss rod, a feature Baldwin got as part of their deal when they bought the Burns guitar company.



But Baldwin never messed with their banjos much after all the production left Colorado for Arkansas.



Your Style 2 underwent the most changes of all after the buyout; it was intended to be Baldwin's only aluminum-rimmed offering, as the aluminum rim was an original Ode innovation and was part of the reason for the Ode company's success. 



The Baldwin Style 2 uses a slightly different combination of parts on the rim than can be found on the earlier banjos, and the use of mahogany was never a typical Style 2 wood before, nor was the use of the rosewood fingerboard. 



Once those changes were made, there was actually less minor change in the Style 2 than in the other 2 models in the Baldwin line, and the Style 2 was never Baldwin's "beginner's model".  Baldwin considered it as fully professional-grade as its other two models, and was trimmed simply because  that was always part of the Style 2 esthetic. 



It was good marketing strategy for Baldwin, as the Style 2 was their largest-selling model always, and was always the most consistant.



regards,



stanger

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