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Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/02/2020: 06:08:59
Anyone else on the Hangout own a Cammeyer "Special" with "59 Piccadilly" dowel stamps ? I would be interested in seeing photos please.
PeterT - Posted - 06/02/2020: 08:20:36
I don't have a Cammeyer Special but Ihave got a Cammeyer with 97a jermyn Street stamped on the dowel.
It's the only one I've seen that is not a zither banjo.
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/02/2020: 12:34:48
Nice banjo Peter. My Special is also an openback.
banjowilly22 - Posted - 06/02/2020: 12:45:45
Hello Steve, Is there a Serial Number on your Special Cammeyer ?
Keith
Peter, Does your Cammeyer have any Serial Number , Jermyn Street is early.
Keith
PeterT - Posted - 06/03/2020: 00:16:41
Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/03/2020: 01:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by PeterT
Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?
The neck timber on mine is Sheesham Indian Rosewood and from the photos yours appears to be the same.
Is that 1109 stamped on the heel under Cammeyer ?
PeterT - Posted - 06/03/2020: 01:44:59
Yes, that's right, underneath the Cammeyer signature.
Any idea how these numbers correspond with dates?
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/03/2020: 01:48:32
quote:
Originally posted by PeterT
Yes, that's right, underneath the Cammeyer signature.
Any idea how these numbers correspond with dates?
I don't but Keith has their ledger.
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/04/2020: 00:10:28
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hello Steve, Is there a Serial Number on your Special Cammeyer ?
Keith
Peter, Does your Cammeyer have any Serial Number , Jermyn Street is early.
Keith
Hi Keith. Yes 2099 on the dowel. W A Cole pattern neck brace.
Joel Hooks - Posted - 06/04/2020: 05:14:43
quote:
Originally posted by PeterT
Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?
It is generally believed that these peghead numbers are Clifford Essex refurbishment numbers,
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/04/2020: 07:51:04
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by PeterT
Yes Keith the seriel number on the back of the peg head is 1817.
There is also one on the dowel - 3115
Do you have any information about Cammeyer banjos?
It is generally believed that these peghead numbers are Clifford Essex refurbishment numbers,
I have a Cammeyer Jermyn Street Grade 2 Zither the only stamp is 3369 on the back of the peghead. Is there a time frame for the Essex story ?
Edited by - Stephen John Prior on 06/04/2020 07:52:08
Joel Hooks - Posted - 06/04/2020: 08:32:35
I don't know. Post WW2 through the 1970s? According to the BMG, CE stopped making banjos before WW2 due to material shortages. It is evident that they were not successful in starting back up. I presume there was not enough demand for the product. They did try to manufacture and sell Regal models later but it was a short lived project.
I presume they always offered repair service. There were also ads for second hand banjos in BMG. As far as the refurbishment numbers... I do not have an answer as to when they started and stopped.
I'm not even sure I know what I am talking about. Most of my info comes from reading BMG and English members of the Classic Banjo Ning website.
banjowilly22 - Posted - 06/04/2020: 10:06:23
Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/04/2020: 11:11:11
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith
Thanks Keith. I figured it was early because of the Piccadilly address. 2099 Cammeyer Special is quite an interesting banjo and some aspects of it are certainly Weaver (ish). I'll post photos when repairs complete. Interesting i also have Zither banjo 5455 which i now know is quite late. Thanks again great info.
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/05/2020: 00:20:57
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hi Peter and Steve, Firstly , the details from Cammeyers ledgers are as follows :-
1817, was made on October 28th,1899. It is listed as a Special and also "WEAVER".
He did make Banjos for Essex and Cammeyer, and later Clifford Essex, along with other
companies. They also imported Banjos and parts from Cole in the USA. It doesn`t look
much like a Weaver, however it was part of a batch of 3 ,along with Nos 1815 and 1816.
Weaver also made the Clifford Essex Special model, with 11" head for Essex.
I can`t explain what the 3115 and 1109 numbers are ?
Steve- 2099 is listed a made on 8th September, 1900, as a "Special" model.
and 3369, simply dated 5th August 1904, with NO model designation.
I have in my collection a E and C Eclipse Banjeurine, with Cole stamp and recently
purchased a "Cole" 3000 model which turns out to only have Cole hardware, with the
neck made by Cammeyer.
Clifford Essex was in Partnership with Cammeyer from 1890 until 1900. However the
first entry in the Ledger is Number 1751, on September 2nd, 1899.
There are 3 Ledgers in my possession and the last entry is number 5565, on
December 2nd, 1937.
I will send copies of the Ledger pages to your e-mail.
Keith
Keith. Just wondering regarding Peters banjo serial number. Out of interest what happens if you look up 3115 in the ledger ? It seems to me the serial number is more likely to be the one stamped on the dowel. Attached is a photo of the dowel on my Special.
banjowilly22 - Posted - 06/05/2020: 09:02:06
Hi Steve, Your Cammeyer number 5455 - 257, is listed as a Vibrante Royal, made on January 13th, 1931.
This also brings up an interesting feature of Cammeyer`s numbering system, with regard to the
"Vibrante" models. [ The Standard Vibrante had a 9" diameter head whereas the Vibrante Royal
had a 9.5" head size ]
The first number -5455 -is the sequential number in the ledgers, and this could be any model,
but, the second number is the sequential number just for the Vibrante models.
I have in my collection, the very last Vibrante Royal made, number 5563-285, made September 7th, 1937,
and this is also the 3rd from last Banjo made.
After this date Sydney Young, who was Cammeyer`s main Luthier, took over all the remaining stock
and parts and continued to produce a few more Banjos, but these did NOT bear the A.D.Cammeyer
facsimile signature stamped on the side of the neck heel.
Keith
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 06/07/2020: 01:04:36
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hi Steve, Your Cammeyer number 5455 - 257, is listed as a Vibrante Royal, made on January 13th, 1931.
This also brings up an interesting feature of Cammeyer`s numbering system, with regard to the
"Vibrante" models. [ The Standard Vibrante had a 9" diameter head whereas the Vibrante Royal
had a 9.5" head size ]
The first number -5455 -is the sequential number in the ledgers, and this could be any model,
but, the second number is the sequential number just for the Vibrante models.
I have in my collection, the very last Vibrante Royal made, number 5563-285, made September 7th, 1937,
and this is also the 3rd from last Banjo made.
After this date Sydney Young, who was Cammeyer`s main Luthier, took over all the remaining stock
and parts and continued to produce a few more Banjos, but these did NOT bear the A.D.Cammeyer
facsimile signature stamped on the side of the neck heel.
Keith
Hi Keith. Thanks for that. I checked yesterday and I also have a John Alvey Turner, Vibrante style, zither banjo made by Young.
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 07/18/2020: 12:55:12
Cammeyer Special 2099. I'm now thinking it was indeed made by Alfred Weaver.
Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/18/2020: 15:25:00
22 frets, is that a 10.5” rim?
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 07/19/2020: 00:19:10
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
22 frets, is that a 10.5” rim?
10 & 5/8 inch diameter. 2 & 1/2 inches deep.
Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/19/2020: 07:49:28
Cool, so that is “special” sized and was intended to be pitched one full step higher to D for a brighter tone and more carrying power (so it was claimed).
Weaver made some of these after Stewart put out the Special Thoroughbred which was a three octave neck on a Special sized banjo, designed by Alfred Farland.
Stephen John Prior - Posted - 07/19/2020: 08:34:29
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
Cool, so that is “special” sized and was intended to be pitched one full step higher to D for a brighter tone and more carrying power (so it was claimed).
Weaver made some of these after Stewart put out the Special Thoroughbred which was a three octave neck on a Special sized banjo, designed by Alfred Farland.
I have another 22 fret Weaver with Essex stamps which is the same size. As well as having a Cole neck brace some inlays have been added to the standard Weaver pattern.
