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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Evolutionary scholars enlighten me about the virus, please.


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/362653

banjo bill-e - Posted - 03/31/2020:  12:57:01


Are there any widely accepted theories on how viruses came to be? They are not actually a life form, as they have no metabolic activity, yet they reproduce and mutate. And, they only "live" in other living tissues. Are they, too, just a random self-perpetuating accident?

nakigreengrass - Posted - 03/31/2020:  13:00:53


I've been looking at that question myself.....Viruses don't seem to fit the survival criteria since they often harm the host...I'm sure there's an answer there somewhere, which I haven't found yet.   I guess there must be a mechanism for net gain there somewhere.   It may force the host to move from a virus source and therefore spread the gene pool to a larger area...giving a net gain in the longer term.


Edited by - nakigreengrass on 03/31/2020 13:13:38

OldBlindGuy - Posted - 03/31/2020:  13:08:56


Here are some theories:

nature.com/scitable/topicpage/...14398218/

Chris Meakin - Posted - 03/31/2020:  14:27:58


and some more info here.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_evolution

Frisco Fred - Posted - 03/31/2020:  17:09:51


Viruses are the earth's immune system.

Okay, that's my sci-fi theory. In the reality of some, viruses are though to be the beginning elements of life.

Now I'm going back and reading the previous links and see what the people who might actually know are saying.

... in the meantime, they'll be terrestrial antibodies to me... and I'm winning

cantpick - Posted - 03/31/2020:  17:54:49


How about the idea about electrifying the earth through different means, (radar, 5G...) introducing more and more electromagnetic waves causes problems with the human body?

Owen - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:00:12


...or increased electromagnetic waves being beneficial to the human body??   As is obvious, this stuff is W-A-Y over my head.  sad


Edited by - Owen on 03/31/2020 18:00:59

prooftheory - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:03:26


google.com/url?sa=t&source=web...702983847

cantpick - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:15:47


I don't know very much but electromagnetic waves dry out the water in the body cells and cause toxins to be released. This can form "viruses". The beginning of 5G signals in China and the onset of COVID-19 overlap. Not proof by any means, but something to think about.

Brian T - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:23:30


Virus particles occupy a niche to hi-jack a living cell to make more virus particle genetic codes and coatings.
One major result is that the once-living cell explodes with replicated virus to infect other cells.

A vaccine tunes up your immune system to watch out for virus and to disable its infective qualities.
We aren't there yet. We're hoping that your immune systems can improvise and save your a$$.
This is not going well, at all.
With intensive care, the lung attack can be managed in many cases but we are all a lot better off
not to get sick in the first place.

So, tough fecal particles. Stay home. Stay clean. Admire the bravery of those risking their lives.
I have to be out ever second day for a med appt. No choice. After 8 months, I'd hate to see my friends go down.

Us old professors told the medical students what to say to you. Listen up or die.

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:30:03


quote:

Originally posted by nooby

The beginning of 5G signals in China and the onset of COVID-19 overlap. Not proof by any means, but something to think about.






Has nothing at all to do with COVID-19.



 

Brian T - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:35:57


Nooby, put a sock in it. The birth rate in England is correlated wit the pig iron smelter production.
Something to think about, as you say.

Well, don't say it until you have factual, bullet-proof factual back-up.

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:36:21


From the CDC -



COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus. Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that are common in people and many different species of animals, including camels, cattle, cats, and bats. Rarely, animal coronaviruses can infect people and then spread between people such as with MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV, and now with this new virus (named SARS-CoV-2).



The SARS-CoV-2 virus is a betacoronavirus, like MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV. All three of these viruses have their origins in bats. The sequences from U.S. patients are similar to the one that China initially posted, suggesting a likely single, recent emergence of this virus from an animal reservoir.



cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/...mary.html

cantpick - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:42:47


quote:

Originally posted by Brian T

Nooby, put a sock in it. The birth rate in England is correlated wit the pig iron smelter production.

Something to think about, as you say.



Well, don't say it until you have factual, bullet-proof factual back-up.






Hey BrainT, don't harass me.  I have a right to put on this forum whatever I want as long as it's not religious or political.  I said it's not proof.  I don't believe it anyway. But I brought it out as something to think about.  I say again, don't harass me.  You don't make the rules, sorry. 


Edited by - cantpick on 03/31/2020 18:45:21

Brian T - Posted - 03/31/2020:  18:48:36


Nooby: glad to read it with facts. Suppositions aren't good enough in this day and time.
But why spread it if you openly say that you don't believe it?
I wish you people well. You need all the help you can get in the next 2 months.

nakigreengrass - Posted - 04/01/2020:  00:10:23


quote:

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Are there any widely accepted theories on how viruses came to be? They are not actually a life form, as they have no metabolic activity, yet they reproduce and mutate. And, they only "live" in other living tissues. Are they, too, just a random self-perpetuating accident?






I found some interesting stuff online today... that you motivated me to spend some time on.   



It turns out that viruses are an important mechanism for protein variations that help natural selection.  Viruses themselves seem to be able to form by random chemistry and don't seem to be considered as living cells.( I didn't spend much time on that bit )   When the virus get into a host not only does the immune system kick into top gear, but also proteins go into hyper drive allowing higher than normal mutations in DNA.   If those mutations are advantageous at that time and place, and the virus does not kill the host.... the host will incorporate those advantageous mutations into his offspring.  This over a longer time span, seems to enable a net population gain for the host species regardless of the mortality rate that the virus causes.



So the 2nd law of thermodynamics pertaining to evolution is still intact...i.e... biology will always evolve better ways to dissipate the suns energy....never the reverse.

Stu D Baker-Hawk - Posted - 04/01/2020:  00:21:50


All I know is, without our earthly viruses we'd have been conquered long ago by some friggin' alien race...



banjoy - Posted - 04/01/2020:  01:39:19


In another thread one scientist noted that science does not concern itself with the "whys" of something. Yet, obviously, it does.



It's kind of funny that we this we must understand something for it to make sense in the order of things. We can't even begin to comprehend life itself, which science pegs as some grand fluke, order from chaos, it's all random anyway. If it's all so random, why do we fret over things we don't understand?



There are plants bugs and microbes that exist despite our inability to understand them. It is not enough that they exist?



For example, I was reading recently about the Gympie-Gympie plant in Australia, which has microscopic silica spikes that if your touch it can cause so much pain that you want to kill yourself, and the pain never goes away, it's for life. So, what purpose does a plant like that serve?



So at some point we must understand that there IS a purpose to EVERY thing whether we understand it, or not. Nothing, and I mean, no thing, depends on whether we understand it, or not. They exist anyway whether we can figure it out or not.



Bacteria and virus co-exist and are dependant on each other. In another thread I started (laugh all you want) was introduced the theories (supported by science, there's ton of research on this) that every living organism serves as host to a set of bacteria/virus which together are in balance. As species on this planet become stressed or extinct, the microbes they host don't go extinct, they jump ship to another living host. Thus, we're seeing diseases we've never seen before.



What's not discussed so much is that bacteria can serve as host for virus too, which considerably speeds up their combined abilities to mutate very quickly. Bacteria reproduce much faster than any other living host, and it won't be long before this will spiral out of control as more and more species become extinct on this planet. Bacteria and virus are like cockroaches, they will find a way to survive. Scientists and medical pros have been stating this for years now. The warning bells have been sounding for a while in the professional communities, just no one has listened. You can go to YouTube right now and see all sorts of lectures from noted scientists, botanists, doctors, etc, on these very things.



A link to an article or study will not change a mind. Whether we understand them or not, virus exists in our world. Why they exist is moot.



Does science even understand or explain why a human being exists? If so, let's see links to that, which ought to be fun. The only theories that seem to be put forth are this was all creation some happy accident. If that's true and accepted, then you have to accept that virus too is some accident. Science does not understand why human beings are here, much less anything else.


Edited by - banjoy on 04/01/2020 01:47:16

DC5 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  05:13:16


quote:

Originally posted by Brian T



So, tough fecal particles. Stay home. Stay clean. Admire the bravery of those risking their lives.

I have to be out ever second day for a med appt. No choice. After 8 months, I'd hate to see my friends go down.



Us old professors told the medical students what to say to you. Listen up or die.






This is the best thing I've read so far on the subject, and needed to be repeated.

DC5 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  05:17:03


Viruses are the zombies of biology. They are the living dead. They don't metabolize, and they cannot reproduce on their own. They need to hijack a cells processes in order to reproduce and create more. They do this quickly, and the faster reproduction happens, the faster evolution happens. This makes them very hard to kill, especially since they are not truly alive. In other words THIS IS THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!

prooftheory - Posted - 04/01/2020:  07:59:53


quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

google.com/url?sa=t&source=web...702983847






OBG beat me.

Tobus - Posted - 04/01/2020:  09:14:03


quote:

Originally posted by nooby

I don't know very much but electromagnetic waves dry out the water in the body cells and cause toxins to be released. This can form "viruses". The beginning of 5G signals in China and the onset of COVID-19 overlap. Not proof by any means, but something to think about.






That reminds me - when this coronavirus first started to blow up in China, I did see someone on the internet post a long diatribe on their theory that it was a programmable bioweapon.  And their claim was that everyone already had it, with 5G being invented for the express purpose of activating it in human beings.  The idea is ludicrous, of course, but I can see how these conspiracy theories make people start looking for connections.  For instance, go look at a map of which cities have 5G service in the USA, and compare it to the COVID-19 hotspots.  The easily-persuaded could certainly see a correlation, leading to a sense of satisfaction that they've figured it all out.



I had forgotten about that crackpot theory until you brought it up.  I went to Google it, and sure enough, it has become enough of a thing that there are now numerous articles to debunk it.  My goodness, LOL.



cnet.com/news/no-5g-didnt-caus...pandemic/

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